Anybody have WoW?

[nryn99]

seems you have a good point. i wasn't direct with my point. grinding and having better items isn't something i see as skill really. and it really what hinders most skilled players in some mmo.
i didn't have much time to grind 10+ hours a day and have that much money to buy the strongest in-game items. but i was able to kill enemies that can kill me in one shot, the class i chose in the game, which is ranger, has the lowest attack power. however the traps i set do. it's not that simple to kill a highbie just by setting traps anywhere. you have to lure them to it.
though later on my name got known as a trapper and they don't follow me anymore. so somehow i had to trick them into going to where my traps were.
also being known as a trapper, i can bluff when a highbie is going towards me. i would not move an inch and make it seem like he is walking to a trap.
and being chased around in the enemy's grounds and still can't be killed is something fun.

not just clicking f1 to f5 whenever there's an enemy in front of you. it's how i see most mmorpgs now.

 

[Hells Malice]

please someone enlighten me of the skills present in playing an mmo?

other grinding to max level and wearing the best armors so that you can pk lower level characters? if this is considered a skill.

also, i'm not saying that games do not have skills. i'm just saying that most mmos have that kind of element.
but if you are able to pk someone higher level as you. then i might consider it skill.

but certain games do have skill. in some fps, not everyone can hit an enemy using a sniper rifle @ close range w/o scope. or putting something in the middle of the screen.

In Ragnarok Online, skill was a major part of PvP. You could have amazing gear and still get absolutely destroyed if someone was better at using their class than you could use yours. Sure, level was important (that's impossible to remove unless you go the boring guild wars route), but you could still take down a person 10~ levels higher than you if they were adequately worse than you. RO didn't have traditional gear though, so that's probably why gear wasn't so important. You didn't just get a new gear set every 5 levels or something.

Tera Online, to a degree, requires skill as well. I've seen people do some crazy awesome stuff to save their asses from being PKed, like throwing out an excellently aimed and timed combo. Even if you have the best gear in the game, if you can't play your class, you're just going to get owned.

Games like WoW (and most other MMOs) can't say that at all. In WoW, if you're a higher level and your gear is far superior, you're the victor. You really don't need to KNOW much about your class, or any other class. You just go through your skill rotation until the thing drops dead. THAT definitely does not require any skill whatsoever.
Because of the way MMOs work, obviously time can be traded for a bit of an advantage, but despite that some MMOs DO have a structure that supports skill over time investment to certain degrees.

 

[nryn99]

In Ragnarok Online, skill was a major part of PvP. You could have amazing gear and still get absolutely destroyed if someone was better at using their class than you could use yours. Sure, level was important (that's impossible to remove unless you go the boring guild wars route), but you could still take down a person 10~ levels higher than you if they were adequately worse than you. RO didn't have traditional gear though, so that's probably why gear wasn't so important. You didn't just get a new gear set every 5 levels or something.

ah, yes RO. i stopped playing coz i was still very young at that time and wasn't prepared for the pvp it has. everything seemed too fast, but also AFAIK you also had to have different set of gears for different situations. and the cards makes each gear unique for each class. so gears was important for Ragnarok Online.

Games like WoW (and most other MMOs) can't say that at all. In WoW, if you're a higher level and your gear is far superior, you're the victor. You really don't need to KNOW much about your class, or any other class. You just go through your skill rotation until the thing drops dead. THAT definitely does not require any skill whatsoever.
Because of the way MMOs work, obviously time can be traded for a bit of an advantage, but despite that some MMOs DO have a structure that supports skill over time investment to certain degrees.

well, that's pretty much just grinding and shiny armors then. the reason why i left RF Online. it was an excellent game. but now we were just getting milked. offering weapons, armors, and upgraders bundles if you buy certain items from the cash shop. which means rich people not only have high levels, but excellent armors as well, and those that just above my level by a small gap got good items which helped them level up faster. and poor people like me can't keep up with only skills where pretty much everyone kills me in one or two hits. now i can't goddamn kill anyone but lowbies.

sorry for the rant.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

How about we get back to the topic and stop threadshitting? I mean seriously, you guys are way off topic and you know you're off topic. I really try not to mini-mod, but FFS, guys, give it a rest.

Anyway, I don't play WoW anymore, but if you have any basic questions, just ask me. The sites WoWhead and thottbot are great for helping with quests if you ever get stuck. There are also numerous addons and plugins that help you along the game at curse.com

 

[Hells Malice]

In Ragnarok Online, skill was a major part of PvP. You could have amazing gear and still get absolutely destroyed if someone was better at using their class than you could use yours. Sure, level was important (that's impossible to remove unless you go the boring guild wars route), but you could still take down a person 10~ levels higher than you if they were adequately worse than you. RO didn't have traditional gear though, so that's probably why gear wasn't so important. You didn't just get a new gear set every 5 levels or something.

ah, yes RO. i stopped playing coz i was still very young at that time and wasn't prepared for the pvp it has. everything seemed too fast, but also AFAIK you also had to have different set of gears for different situations. and the cards makes each gear unique for each class. so gears was important for Ragnarok Online.

Gear was important but if right now I gave you a decked out character and told you how to use it, and then fought you with a character no where near as well geared, i'd destroy you with little to no effort.
Gear helps shape a build, but it doesn't make up for anything. If you suck, you suck. Then the technical knowhow of RO was also immense. Want to be good? Bring a pen, paper and a good calculator. Builds are also finicky, you can easily shape one to your own liking and be good with it. It's hard to follow other peoples builds because it was shaped to play exactly how they wanted to play.
WoW on the other hand, do the same thing, and you'd kick my ass three ways to sunday. Firstly because gear = skill, and secondly because all there is to know for a WoW pvp fight is "push these buttons in this order for victory". No thought into anything. You can play WoW for a total of an hour, if you have better gear than the dude whose played for 10 years, you're gonna kick his ass.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

It's a videogame. There's never been any game, ever, nor will there ever exist a game for the rest of the history of the universe, that requires skill.

Stopped there.
Laughed my balls off. You're dismissed.

Amendment: There never has been nor ever will be a game that requires an amount of skill that's noteworthy. Even the most complex game is like making dinner, or driving a car, etc. You may use skills while playing, but the game doesn't require skill. Do you need to be more skilled than your opponent to win? Sometimes. Take poker for example. I could argue that poker requires no skill because you can't even control the cards you get, everything is just random. I'd be right, to an extent. I could also argue that poker requires skill because you must be able to bet and bluff (and other skills) to convince others to allow you to win. I'd be right, to an extent. I could also argue that no matter how skilled you are, you could lose because your enemy has a straight flush, queen high. I'd be right, to an extent. I could argue that you could still minimize your loss by recognizing that he's betting high, and recognizing such things is a skill. I'd be right about that, too.

However, you can't argue (successfully) that poker is more skilled than, let's just say, old maid, which is a game that children play. The rules are simple, there are a few things you need to learn and practice to be good, and some people are more naturally talented than others. A game is still a game, and games are made to be playable, which means accessible, which means simple.

In a world where people engineer technologies that are so complex that it takes years of training just to understand the creative process, it's vain in the extreme to consider any "game" as being a truly skilled activity.

If you don't get that, then you're the exact type of person that I'm complaining about.

Tetris.

Anyways, great to see this thread went down the shitter.

 

[Deleted-236924]

Fun fact: Blizzard has provided me (and a ton of other players) with a way to get to Lv. 80 without even having to play.

 

[Siku]

Skill does exists in WoW. Or else we wouldnt have guilds like Paragon and Method or what could basically be considered a progression ladder. Just because YOUR definition of "Skill" is very closeminded doesnt mean anything.
Skill isnt a very hardcore thing to understand, its a basic concept but it still is skill. Not everyone has the exact quantifiable amount of situational awareness. Some people can react in 0.1 second, some people takes 0.25 second to react, then there's donald who takes a whole 2.5 second to react to anything. The simple fact that these are different values are a proof that situational awareness is a skill. Otherwise EVERYONE would have the same 0.1 reaction time. Everyone.
Sure It's possible and in fact expected of you to follow the optimal reaction. But those rotations arent exactly 1111211112111121112, they normally requires you to monitor at least something else, it may be a proc on spell casts, it may be your mana bar, it may be knowing when the boss is going to do somehting. And your skill is based on how you can react to these events, and how fast you can decide for the best course of action.

Litereally, it would be impossible to suck in wow if there was no skill involved. Yet, there are people who suck and there are people who dont.

Another fun fact: Diablo III is not an MMO. It's an online coop action rpg.

 

[Hells Malice]

It pretty much is impossible to suck in WoW.
If you suck in WoW, there's actually something wrong with you. It's made to be incredibly difficult to suck at. So much so that even casuals can pick up and be gods with no real requirements other than a time investment.

 

[Wizerzak]

Play a better MMO.
I'm not even trolling, WoW is archaic and the combat is pathetic it's not even worth investing time into anymore.

If you want tips it's pretty simple. Google a guide for your class. It'll give a talent setup and an optimal skill rotation. Follow it and you'll be as good as your gear lets you be. There's no skill involved/needed.

Hell if you don't mind (and even like) grinding type games...your world is wide open for MMOs, there's a bunch of great MMOs hindered by the fact you have to grind to progress.

Yes, most noobs just google guides and and build for thier class but that's because they suck. The game actually does involve some skill but there are very few people with it. I mean dps really don't have skill but that's because the only thing they have to do is press the same buttons over and over again unless you pvp and in that case you have to have a lil skill. As far as tanking and healing goes no matter what you will have to have the skill of paying attention and knowing what your doing or your whole group will wipe. Yes, they combat sucks at first but it does get better as you play and level up. Plus each class has a different style of fighting so it really depends on the class you play. One of the funnest classes to play would be the rogue imo. you can basically go invisible, stun and [censored] people. It's only boring if you pick to be a class you don't like


edit: Btw, if you want i do have the game and i can hang out and give you some tips if u like

I always lol so hard when WoW players try to tell me the game takes skill.
No, it doesn't. I've played many, many...many MMOs. WoW is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to combat, as well as character customization. There are definite optimal builds. You can try to build one yourself, but enjoy sucking compared to people of the same class with an optimal build. Most of the things you described are the same in basically every MMO in existence, except it's all simplified in WoW.
Character depth is piss-poor at best, though honestly most MMOs these days aren't great in that department either. Assuming a person isn't inept and useless, gearscore + using optimal build or not = how good someone is.
You're playing a PvE social MMO stacked with PvE filler. I don't care if you like it, have fun, but please don't sit there and try to tell people it's an MMO that requires real skill.

WoW is rather old and out-dated, but I wouldn't say it isn't the better MMO of the ones available.

Let's be honest. If another MMO were truly better than WoW, then Blizzard would have lost far more subscribers than what they have. The problems and structuring with the newer ones prevent people, who must have an MMO, from staying away from WoW.

There are many MMOs truly better than WoW, but not a whole lot with raw PvE content to fill up peoples time.
It takes forever to cover all the content in WoW, because it's old as hell. That's the only place it shines, new MMOs fail because everyone expects them to have as much or more content than WoW, right at launch. That and plenty of new MMOs mimic WoW and go for a 'shit pvp, detailed pve' approach to try appeal to a wider audience. Which...like I said, fails due to a severe lack of content. PvP heavy survives a lot better than PvE heavy.

I'm going to go ahead and flame the crap out of you, right now.

I wouldn't argue with Hells Malice about MMO if I were you.

 

[Deleted-236924]

Play a better MMO.
I'm not even trolling, WoW is archaic and the combat is pathetic it's not even worth investing time into anymore.

If you want tips it's pretty simple. Google a guide for your class. It'll give a talent setup and an optimal skill rotation. Follow it and you'll be as good as your gear lets you be. There's no skill involved/needed.

Hell if you don't mind (and even like) grinding type games...your world is wide open for MMOs, there's a bunch of great MMOs hindered by the fact you have to grind to progress.

Yes, most noobs just google guides and and build for thier class but that's because they suck. The game actually does involve some skill but there are very few people with it. I mean dps really don't have skill but that's because the only thing they have to do is press the same buttons over and over again unless you pvp and in that case you have to have a lil skill. As far as tanking and healing goes no matter what you will have to have the skill of paying attention and knowing what your doing or your whole group will wipe. Yes, they combat sucks at first but it does get better as you play and level up. Plus each class has a different style of fighting so it really depends on the class you play. One of the funnest classes to play would be the rogue imo. you can basically go invisible, stun and [censored] people. It's only boring if you pick to be a class you don't like


edit: Btw, if you want i do have the game and i can hang out and give you some tips if u like

I always lol so hard when WoW players try to tell me the game takes skill.
No, it doesn't. I've played many, many...many MMOs. WoW is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to combat, as well as character customization. There are definite optimal builds. You can try to build one yourself, but enjoy sucking compared to people of the same class with an optimal build. Most of the things you described are the same in basically every MMO in existence, except it's all simplified in WoW.
Character depth is piss-poor at best, though honestly most MMOs these days aren't great in that department either. Assuming a person isn't inept and useless, gearscore + using optimal build or not = how good someone is.
You're playing a PvE social MMO stacked with PvE filler. I don't care if you like it, have fun, but please don't sit there and try to tell people it's an MMO that requires real skill.

WoW is rather old and out-dated, but I wouldn't say it isn't the better MMO of the ones available.

Let's be honest. If another MMO were truly better than WoW, then Blizzard would have lost far more subscribers than what they have. The problems and structuring with the newer ones prevent people, who must have an MMO, from staying away from WoW.

There are many MMOs truly better than WoW, but not a whole lot with raw PvE content to fill up peoples time.
It takes forever to cover all the content in WoW, because it's old as hell. That's the only place it shines, new MMOs fail because everyone expects them to have as much or more content than WoW, right at launch. That and plenty of new MMOs mimic WoW and go for a 'shit pvp, detailed pve' approach to try appeal to a wider audience. Which...like I said, fails due to a severe lack of content. PvP heavy survives a lot better than PvE heavy.

I'm going to go ahead and flame the crap out of you, right now.

I wouldn't argue with Hells Malice about MMO if I were you.

And now this is the time where you explain what those numbers actually mean.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

Whatpulse. It counts your keystrokes (not records) and your mouse clicks and uploads them to a website. Also, it counts how many of each key you press, but that info is only stored locally and cannot be accessed by anyone but whoever is using that PC. I have a feeling all his keystrokes would be WASD1234567890-=