Homebrew Aaaalright, I wanna start developing....

[Skyline969]

So I decided I wouldn't mind diving head-first into the DS homebrew scene and make my own homebrew. Are there any tools or libraries or anything out there I could use to make my progress a little smoother?

EDIT: I found and got devkitPro (with devkitARM)... but how do I use it?

 

[Talaria]

Word of advice, Developing a worthwhile homebrew game/application requires a bit of extensive knowledge in computer programming (C/C++) and is not something you can pick up and expect to make a game/application just like that. I'd suggest learning the basics of Computer Programming and make simple applications on the computer and build on from there. Maybe, just maybe in few years if you are that dedicated enough and want to put all that effort you might be able to code a game for the DS.

 

[ChuckMcB]

...and if Talaria hasn't scared you off

have a look at these Guides/Tutorials

http://patater.com/manual

http://www.dev-scene.com/NDS/Tutorials

 

[JDandy]

Start with PAlib.
They've got tutorials over at the PAlib wiki. It is easy to learn, and will probably do what you want.

 

[Skyline969]

Word of advice, Developing a worthwhile homebrew game/application requires a bit of extensive knowledge in computer programming (C/C++) and is not something you can pick up and expect to make a game/application just like that. I'd suggest learning the basics of Computer Programming and make simple applications on the computer and build on from there. Maybe, just maybe in few years if you are that dedicated enough and want to put all that effort you might be able to code a game for the DS.

Not a problem, Talaria. I have completed my Computer Science courses in high school (95% on the standard one, 94% on the advanced one) and I have been programming since I was 13. So I have experience, no worries there.

 

[OneMichael]

Here's a bit of random documentation:
http://libnds.devkitpro.org/index.html

It might help, and it's apparently only a couple months old.

 

[Eponasoft]

Setting up PAlib is no easy task these days; devkitPro's latest releases made sure of that. Unless you want to go through the trouble of installing older versions of devkitPro and hope you got a version that works with PAlib, you might consider sticking with devkitPro alone. PAlib has a wide array of high-level functions that make life easy, but setting it up is a real bitch nowadays.

 

[Skyline969]

Setting up PAlib is no easy task these days; devkitPro's latest releases made sure of that. Unless you want to go through the trouble of installing older versions of devkitPro and hope you got a version that works with PAlib, you might consider sticking with devkitPro alone. PAlib has a wide array of high-level functions that make life easy, but setting it up is a real bitch nowadays.

How is setting it up such a bitch?

 

[sprogurt]

Just use ds game maker! basically its a gui homebrew creator

 

[Skyline969]

Just use ds game maker! basically its a gui homebrew creator

DS Game Maker? Enlighten me. What is that and where do I get it?

EDIT: www.justfuckinggoogleit.com and I got it. Looks interesting, kinda like Game Maker by YoYo Games, which I have experience in as well. I'll take a look; seems like a good way to get the basics then apply my C++ knowledge to fine-tune things.

 

[Eponasoft]

How is setting it up such a bitch?

Because you have to use a specific version of devkitARM and libnds. I managed to get PAlib 080823 working with devkitPro 1.4.6, but things compile with a laundry list of warnings. PAlib works best with devkitARM r21, though I use it with r23.

 

[sprogurt]

Just use ds game maker! basically its a gui homebrew creator

DS Game Maker? Enlighten me. What is that and where do I get it?

EDIT: www.justfuckinggoogleit.com and I got it. Looks interesting, kinda like Game Maker by YoYo Games, which I have experience in as well. I'll take a look; seems like a good way to get the basics then apply my C++ knowledge to fine-tune things.

btw just so you know if it's the unpaid version then in the top left hand corner it'll have a url.....i'm wanderin if it can be hex edited out? meh and a few tips. sprites must be 16x16, 32x32 and 64x64 (power of 2) also they must be saved as .png.

 

[DanTheManMS]

As I recall, DS Game maker is based on PALib, isn't it? That's yet another layer of abstraction that's going to cost you in terms of performance.

The problem with PAlib in general is that, like was previously stated, it blatantly breaks a standard DevKitPRO installation in order to get it running. Thus, you won't be able to update DevKitPRO to get bugfixes or updated code. The creator of DevKitPRO is very much against its usage for this reason alone; he would be fine with PAlib if it was updated to match changes in DevKitPRO as they occur, which hasn't happened.

 

[Skyline969]

As I recall, DS Game maker is based on PALib, isn't it? That's yet another layer of abstraction that's going to cost you in terms of performance.

The problem with PAlib in general is that, like was previously stated, it blatantly breaks a standard DevKitPRO installation in order to get it running. Thus, you won't be able to update DevKitPRO to get bugfixes or updated code. The creator of DevKitPRO is very much against its usage for this reason alone; he would be fine with PAlib if it was updated to match changes in DevKitPRO as they occur, which hasn't happened.

But for my intensive purposes, it should do the trick right? I mean, until I get some experience in DS programming that would serve me well.

 

[MicShadow]

There s good tutorial on setting up a WORKING installation of PALib on the PALib Wiki. And yes, it really is a bitch, gets easier though. I would know, I have set it up MANY times.

'whats that compiler, one little error?'
'guess its time to reinstall everything from scratch and start again'

Its pretty much like that

Ontopic slightly more, PALib Wiki has a real nice tutorial. Its great for new people to DS programming.

And once you want to get a bit more technical, I think its Dev-Scene that has some info on framebuffers and IRQs etc

 

[JDandy]

As I recall, DS Game maker is based on PALib, isn't it? That's yet another layer of abstraction that's going to cost you in terms of performance.

The problem with PAlib in general is that, like was previously stated, it blatantly breaks a standard DevKitPRO installation in order to get it running. Thus, you won't be able to update DevKitPRO to get bugfixes or updated code. The creator of DevKitPRO is very much against its usage for this reason alone; he would be fine with PAlib if it was updated to match changes in DevKitPRO as they occur, which hasn't happened.

But for my intensive purposes, it should do the trick right? I mean, until I get some experience in DS programming that would serve me well.

NO. DS Game Maker is a joke. Save yourself the headache and don't touch it. Straight up PAlib or ndslib (or mulib or ktlib or any other spinoff) should do fine.
The PAlib wiki should answer most of your questions; how to get it up and running & plenty of code explanation.


edit: whoops someone beat me to it. Oh well. Red fog covered my eyes when I saw DS game maker XD

 

[Skyline969]

As I recall, DS Game maker is based on PALib, isn't it? That's yet another layer of abstraction that's going to cost you in terms of performance.

The problem with PAlib in general is that, like was previously stated, it blatantly breaks a standard DevKitPRO installation in order to get it running. Thus, you won't be able to update DevKitPRO to get bugfixes or updated code. The creator of DevKitPRO is very much against its usage for this reason alone; he would be fine with PAlib if it was updated to match changes in DevKitPRO as they occur, which hasn't happened.

But for my intensive purposes, it should do the trick right? I mean, until I get some experience in DS programming that would serve me well.

NO. DS Game Maker is a joke. Save yourself the headache and don't touch it. Straight up PAlib or ndslib (or mulib or ktlib or any other spinoff) should do fine.
The PAlib wiki should answer most of your questions; how to get it up and running & plenty of code explanation.


edit: whoops someone beat me to it. Oh well. Red fog covered my eyes when I saw DS game maker XD

Too late. I did touch it. And you're right - it's nothing but a piece of crap. Errors left and right; that's one frontend (correct term?) that fails. I'll try to set up PAlib and the full devkitPro outfit, minus devkitPSP.

 

[Morgawr]

In my opinion, I started programming for the DS two weeks ago or something like that and I'm still a newbie (with some experience with c/c++ before though) and I think that you should start directly with libnds. PAlib seems too much of a bother with all the problems and it's not long-term compatible.. I mean, in some time it'll be too old to keep up with devkitpro and you'll need to change into something more complex. Yes, I do agree that libnds is a lot harder (a hell of a lot harder actually xD ) but you can do more stuff, lower level coding, closer to machine code and still make lots of high level functions if you know how.

You just have to browse through all the tutorials/guides/examples on the web. If you have to start and you have a bit of c/c++ experience then just dive into libnds, PAlib is just a waste of time in my opinion...


/gets ready for a flaming >.

 

[MicShadow]

@Morgawr

You are actually pretty right. PALib wraps it all up a bit too much. While it may have a few useful functions, its better off in the long term to use libnds.

I just used it to get started and learn from the great tutorials on the PALib Wiki. Once I got the hang of the environment (I used the PALib AppWizard For VC++ Express

) I started to remove the PALib refs from all of my projects and start using direct libnds calls exclusively

 

[Eponasoft]

About the only thing I really use PAlib for these days is its excellent GIF and JPG handling, plus easier sprite handlers. But there are a lot of parts that abstract TOO much and become detrimental, plus too many fluff functions (such as automatic sprite animation and background parallax...these are very basic things that anyone worth their salt can code with ease).