"If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing" is a stupid quote and I'm sick of hearing it

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SecureBoot

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There seems to be an increasing amount of fervor behind digital preservation. I see a lot of content about media destruction and revocation of purchased content. Without fail, the top comments on videos like this are "If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing". A nice-sounding sentiment for sure, and one that people seem to rally around to justify their digital looting, but if you apply any amount common sense to the quote, it entirely falls apart as nonsense.

First of all, obviously piracy is not stealing. That's why those two actions are named different things. If piracy was stealing, you would just call it theft. You can remove the first part of the sentence and it remains equally as true. "Piracy isn't stealing". What piracy still is is the circumvention of payment to the rights holder for a product that they have the right to sell.

Second, lets look at the first half of the quote. "If buying isn't owning". I want to be clear, I strongly feel that there should always be a path to DRM-free, non-revocable access of media. However, in a world that isn't the case, prefacing that thought with the word "if" does more to shine a light on the fact that you were too lazy to read the Ts&Cs before making a purchase. The information that you do not have complete ownership is right there in the Terms and Conditions and you actively decided to purchase the product anyway. Now you're turning around and lying about it like no one told you this information. It's like buying a meal at a restaurant where the menu lists "soft drinks are non-refillable" and then getting pissed that your soft drink is, in fact, non-refillable. Should the restaurant make the drink refillable to improve the customer experience? Probably, but that doesn't change the fact that you were informed of what you were getting into when you made the order.

Third, the two clauses of the quote have practically no correlation. Buying isn't owning because these are the terms set by the vendor. If these terms weren't explicitly set, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The vendor does not set terms that say piracy is not theft. If you want this to be true, then that would have to be negotiated by you, the customer, with the vendor prior to purchase. By making the purchase, you agree to the terms whether you like it or not. You don't get to retroactively decide you don't like the terms any more and change them.

Fourth, it's just an excuse to justify your piracy. Don't get me wrong, I have done my fair share of piracy, but piracy is not a clear or sustainable path to preservation. Piracy is often the only way some media is preserved, but that preservation is contingent on someone caring enough about the media to make a backup available for others. My guess is that the majority of people screaming this mantra, are just trying to absolve themselves of the guilt that pirating brings them.

That's all. That's the tweet. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
 
I pirated a lot of games. I also bought a lot of games, I'd say upwards of $7000 - $9000. Seriously! I bought a lot of Genesis-SNES-PSX-Saturn-PS2-XBOX-GCN-PS3 games, a lot of them brand new. I'm probably underestimating what I spent on all these. Let's just say I don't feel guilty at all pirating stuff nowadays. Not saying I'm right or wrong doing so. It's just me.
 
You wouldn't download a car (unless you had a 3d printer).

I used to have xbox live and I bought a few games, then xbox banned my account for using a modded 360. Then I couldn't play my bought games, so in the end I just downloaded them and modded them and never looked back. Now I will never buy a game ever again unless I can hold it in my hand and it never ever needs internet to be able to play it. Now xbox live for 360 doesn't exist, but all those games I downloaded, well I can still play them just fine :-). So meh! I'm a swashbuckling, grog drinking, peg legged, eye patch wearing pirate. Ahoy me hearties, come and sail the seven seas with me.
 
i tend to look at it like an apple. if i buy an apple i can use the seeds to grow a tree and have more apples. if i buy a game i can then download a copy from any source thats available and mod it how ever i wish to.

i dont consider that theft because i paid for the game and am just trying to make the preservation process easier.
 
Except in the past there have been those who called piracy stealing:


Here's the IT Crowd parody I'm also obligated to post:


:tpi::rofl2::rofl2: Obviously you haven't played a GTA game before.

1776699252871.png
 
Last edited by AncientBoi,
You wouldn't download a car (unless you had a 3d printer).

I used to have xbox live and I bought a few games, then xbox banned my account for using a modded 360. Then I couldn't play my bought games, so in the end I just downloaded them and modded them and never looked back. Now I will never buy a game ever again unless I can hold it in my hand and it never ever needs internet to be able to play it. Now xbox live for 360 doesn't exist, but all those games I downloaded, well I can still play them just fine :-). So meh! I'm a swashbuckling, grog drinking, peg legged, eye patch wearing pirate. Ahoy me hearties, come and sail the seven seas with me.
I didn't bring up the "you wouldn't download a car" quote, but that one pisses me off too. That quote isn't real. There is an anti piracy ad that says "you wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a handbag" and goes on to relate the action of piracy to those crimes, but never does it mention "downloading a car"
Post automatically merged:

Also want to make it clear, I am not arguing for or against the act of piracy itself. I am not trying to villainize or make heroes of Internet pirates. I just think the quote is dumb and makes no sense when you apply critical thinking.
 
I've always kind of assumed that the statement doesn't function as a justification; it's a threat people intend to convey to the industry. If you take the industry more this way, this will be the result.
It's a FAFO statement, I thought, from the way people use it.
 
Complete ownership in fact technically never existed when buying most commercial games, as they come with a license granting you rights rather than giving you ownership. The difference comes in practicality, as the only thing really standing between you making copies or modifying your game were anti-temper measures, which were trivial back then compared to what we have today, which for some crosses many lines.

That practical meaning of "buying", as opposed to the legally one, is what people have in mind when using that quote. The criticism comes from the increasing gap that has formed between that practical meaning and modern DRM practices.

You make some pretty valid points and I get why you would feel annoyed by that quote. I guess I don't feel as much as I pay more attention to the feeling being conveyed rather than the technical legal implications from these words at face value.

I didn't bring up the "you wouldn't download a car" quote, but that one pisses me off too. That quote isn't real. There is an anti piracy ad that says "you wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a handbag" and goes on to relate the action of piracy to those crimes, but never does it mention "downloading a car"
I imagine that quote originally was spread for the sake of a joke (although the clueless person might still assume it's real). But if you ask me the allegory behind the joke aged pretty well considering nowadays we have cars with DRM.
 
The mass majority of folks that claim preservation to justify piracy are only doing it for themselves, not actual preservation. You don't need thousands of people preserving the same digital thing. The handful of people that actually try to do it for preservation purposes don't pick and choose what they preserve. They attempt to preserve ALL of it, and spend the money to have the means to do it. They think Bible Adventures is just as important to preserve as Ocarina of Time.

As it is, companies like Nintendo are incredibly good at preserving, not just the finalized games, but the projects themselves, from source code to assets, from all the way back to at least the NES days. Those have no real risk of being lost to time, but folks pirate those games anyways because..... and this is another part of the situation, folks don't have "access" to the games, and in many case, in the way they want. Ocarina of Time is accessible today on Nintendo's more recent platforms, but via NSO which has a monthly/yearly cost to it. Folks don't like that, so they think it's okay for them to pirate it. They complain how they can't get it like back in the day with Virtual Console, yet the numbers showed folks didn't care about that either, and personally, that was likely because they were pirating at that time too.

It's really just entitlement of people, who think they should get what they want, the way they want it, at the price they want it (which is typically for $0).
 
cool bait, mind if i copy and paste? (its too long and i didn't read because the title of the post tells me that the post is stupid)
Imagine having an attention span so fried you can't read 500 words. No, you do not have my sign off to copy paste something you haven't read. I obviously can't stop you though
 
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Imagine having an attention span so fried you can't read 500 words. No, you do not have my sign off to copy paste something you haven't read. I obviously can't stop you though
He's trying to pirate your words!
 
Nintendo made it so they could remote ban physical switch carts, and want a EULA to be permitted to remote brick a Switch 2.

Against that kind of nonsense? Miyamoto and his ilk can burn where they stand, because that is at least three bridges too far.

Sony can also eat the proverbial cock on this one, because it was how flipping unreliable their consoles were with me that prompted me to start looking into modding said consoles for such purposes in the first place.
 
Funny how people still go on about this when that's not true at all. Why? Because some kid on YT claimed that.
By all means, PLEASE show me in the EULA where Nintendo walked back their course of action, because last I checked the verbiage was still there to date. I will happily stand corrected if you can show me, IN THEIR EULA, that they won't try to brick a console.
 
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