Crush 40 is suing SEGA over iconic Sonic Adventure 2 song

cearp · Dec 19, 2024

HarveyHouston said:
An agreement is an agreement. I wouldn't sue somebody for breaking their part of the deal, but I understand why Crush 40 is doing it.

Ok what would you do? Send a polite email, and then if that doesn't work, an angry email?
For a single person, it is very difficult to get any outcome or even just get in contact with the relevant people if you're up against a big company.

If you start legal action, they have to do something, otherwise if they don't show up in court, they'll likely lose.

ShadowOne333 · Dec 19, 2024

I doubt Gioeli alone holds the sole rights to the song.

Are we forgetting Jun Senoue is the main driving force for the main music? Sure Gioeli did the vocals, but Senoue pretty much is the main composer for Crush 40, and last I knew Senoue is still working for Sega.

Royalties for the song, maybe, but that depends on whether or not the contract he signed off has such specifications, otherwise he won't reach far with this.

Timurama · Dec 19, 2024

i just hope that song won't be patched out from steam games

Deleted member 476408 · Dec 19, 2024

Post deleted. Can no longer support this website or it's horrible moderation.

choolisfound · Dec 19, 2024

Chary said:
View attachment 476457

Crush 40 is known for their involvement in composing iconic and beloved vocal soundtracks for the Sonic franchise--especially so for Sonic Adventure 2. However, according to a recent legal filing, it looks like Sega of America has potentially missed out on paying royalties to Crush 40 for using their music. The lead vocalist of the band, Jonny Gioeli, is taking Sega to court, seeking compensation and to definitively rule who has ownership over Sonic Adventure 2's title song, Live and Learn.

Gioeli claims that he created the song in 2001, arranging, performing, recording, and producing it, in accordance to a contract he signed with Sega. Since then, Sega has used the song in countless events, spinoff games, and other media, including the upcoming release of the film Sonic the Hedgehog 3. He owns the copyright to the song, as well as the master recording of it, and has even kept up the song's registration with a music licensing agency. The dispute stems from Sega using the song without ever having paid out the licensing costs to Gioeli, which he hopes to be compensated for.

In an interview with Polygon, Gioeli stated, “I have no comment other than my desire to maintain the preservation of a long standing beautiful relationship with Sega. I do not want fans to draw conclusions or be disrupted from the beautiful memories we have made collectively with this music. I believe and hope we will come to a peaceful settlement that will be fair and just.”

Source

this comment was a joke but it was wrong about the article
I don't exist
you saw nothing

Quore · Dec 19, 2024

I bet no one would expect that

Exnor · Dec 20, 2024

So SEGA got greedy. Shame on you SEGA >

HarveyHouston · Dec 20, 2024

cearp said:
Ok what would you do? Send a polite email, and then if that doesn't work, an angry email?

I'd probably let it be and work on other projects. Then again, I wouldn't agree to commission some work for a big corporation, so there's that to consider, as well.

SaberLilly · Dec 20, 2024

This honestly sounds like a "whoops our bad" moment on Sega's part. Sega can easily recover this, do not drop the ball Sega please we beg you.

slaphappygamer · Dec 20, 2024

SEGA not paying royalties for AGES.

raxadian · Dec 20, 2024

Did Sega really get away with not paying for two decades?

ATKOtter · Dec 20, 2024

Purple_Shyguy said:
I find it hard to believe the guy didn't know the song appeared in other works for two decades

Someone suing is a last ditch effort, not a first resort when it comes to this kind of situation.
And we don't know the specifics of the original licensing agreement and how Sega is allowed to actually use the song. It's entirely possible that using it in the movie violates the licensing agreement, but using it in other games or advertising for the games doesn't.

We also don't know whether the lack of royalties is a recent development or not. It could be that they were happy to pay him for years after the fact, but then stopped paying him. Maybe he got overlooked when a change of leadership happened, or someone decided they didn't want to have to pay anymore so just stopped doing it.

We really don't know the details.

And to the people who act like it's a double standard to support him but not Nintendo suing people, there's a difference between one person trying to get rightfully paid for the work they own, and a big corporation trying to quell creativity by using legal action against those who cannot afford to fight back.

Dax_Fame · Dec 20, 2024

They used it without paying him. If this leads to them no longer using his music because they can't exploit the artist, good riddance.

Talent has been getting the shit end of the stick for the last forever. It could've been so easy to just pay him.

pedro702 · Dec 20, 2024

bonkmaykr said:
You mean licensed music. Original music does not have these issues.
If an employee at your game company, or a freelance contractor, composes the soundtrack, then it's not a problem. The rights to the music stay with the game as it is a game asset, so the developer automatically owns the recording. We call those "OSTs"
The problem is that SEGA treated this like a record licensing deal and didn't secure the ownership of the song, which is great for the artists and I'm all for it but that also means you are obligated to the terms of your contract and have no distribution rights over the song outside of that.

Licensed music doesn't have to be a burden this way, you might not be able to buy Need for Speed MW 2005 anymore because EA is greedy and won't renew the licenses there, but Sony still renews their WipEout licenses (and owns their own record company) so for them it's a solved problem and they will happily sell you WipEout Pulse as long as the older Playstation Store is still worth keeping online. It entirely depends on the company and how they handle it.
SEGA doesn't own their own record label, but they certainly have the money to pay for the rights to one recording, this should be an easy win for everyone unless SEGA are genuine bumbling morons. They agreed to the contract no doubt because it wasn't that hard to pay.

Video games still have licensed soundtracks to this day. Look at literally any sports game.

yeah i meant licensed stuff.

In sports games this isnt an issue at all no one will want fifa 2000 remastered would it? games like those it makes sense since before rights expire the already did like 3 more games and they are never gonna remaster a random yearly sports game.

Wolfy · Dec 20, 2024

Wasn't on my bingo card for this year but oh well, like the music, kinda weird not getting paid if he owns the song.

Sir Tortoise · Dec 21, 2024

I don't think it matters why this is coming so many years later, who knows what else was going on behind the scenes. And it really doesn't impact the actual argument here.

But also, it takes me weeks to write an email so I get it. I'd also take decades to get around to a lawsuit.

Taleweaver · Dec 21, 2024

Me: Sega has been using this song without paying since 2001? horrendous! Where's my pitchforktorch?
Me in 2001: napster... Get me every song I've ever heard and more!

choolisfound · Dec 21, 2024

Chary said:
View attachment 476457

Crush 40 is known for their involvement in composing iconic and beloved vocal soundtracks for the Sonic franchise--especially so for Sonic Adventure 2. However, according to a recent legal filing, it looks like Sega of America has potentially missed out on paying royalties to Crush 40 for using their music. The lead vocalist of the band, Jonny Gioeli, is taking Sega to court, seeking compensation and to definitively rule who has ownership over Sonic Adventure 2's title song, Live and Learn.

Gioeli claims that he created the song in 2001, arranging, performing, recording, and producing it, in accordance to a contract he signed with Sega. Since then, Sega has used the song in countless events, spinoff games, and other media, including the upcoming release of the film Sonic the Hedgehog 3. He owns the copyright to the song, as well as the master recording of it, and has even kept up the song's registration with a music licensing agency. The dispute stems from Sega using the song without ever having paid out the licensing costs to Gioeli, which he hopes to be compensated for.

In an interview with Polygon, Gioeli stated, “I have no comment other than my desire to maintain the preservation of a long standing beautiful relationship with Sega. I do not want fans to draw conclusions or be disrupted from the beautiful memories we have made collectively with this music. I believe and hope we will come to a peaceful settlement that will be fair and just.”

Source

well I guess Sega is going to live and learn
hope they can Escape from the City in time
its sad because Sega was "all of me"

MadMakuFuuma · Dec 22, 2024

SDA said:
If Gioeli sued Sega back in 2001, Sonic Adventure 2 wouldn't even have been released. Why he sued them 23 years later, though, I dunno.

It seems like a lot of people are getting confused about this. But to simplify:
The music was made for Sonic Adventure 2, and for Sonic Adventure 2 only.

Sega simply took the music afterwards and used it in whatever they wanted, without paying the royalties (which were not stipulated in the contract. Once again, the contract was for Sonic Adventure 2).

and thats why they suing sega now. yeh, the catalist was sonic 3 trailer, of course. but i can't blame them.

--------------------------

oh, and i think is funny some people trying to say we are hypocrite because we dont agree with nintendo doing that (but a musician doing is fine).
just stop and think for a moment: one company, suing everyone and everywere, for the most small reasons (including fans) vs one musician suing ONE TIME a big company.... if people can't see what is the difference, i feel sad.

and yes, sometimes (very few times, may i add) nintendo is right. BUT all other BS they do makes those few cases be insignificant. i like some of nintendo IPs, but im not blind that i cant see the difference here

Afeohtan · Dec 24, 2024

Back when Sonic games had decent music.

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