Burning Amazon Rainforest

[bodefuceta]

If you agree that there's no exact figure on it, then by logic it isn't "absolute bollocks".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...e9-bd25-c989555e7766_story.html?noredirect=on

If you're just arguing on the 20% figure, and not denying the Amazon Rainforest's important role in the oxygen supply, we can end this meaningless debate in that case.

What? It is absolute bollocks and nowhere close to true.
I just realized you are OP. What gives, man? You posted total bullshit and I demonstrated it. Apologize instead of saying it's a "meaningless debate".

 

[Jiehfeng]

What? It is absolute bollocks and nowhere close to true.
I just realized you are OP. What gives, man? You posted total bullshit and I demonstrated it. Apologize instead of saying it's a "meaningless debate".

If you read what was posted, a different researcher from a different research group said the plant gives about 50% of the oxygen supply, thus showing how your 80% figure is not concrete or solid to say "absolute bollocks". Not to mention my other point that they are estimates, which goes without saying that also makes your phrase "absolute bollocks" wrong, maybe switch to "kinda bollocks"?

And apologize for what exactly? I said it's a meaningless debate if you're arguing the estimates here which different sources say different things. Try to remember the initial point of the figure, to show that the Amazon Rainforest plays a big role in the oxygen supply, and I said it's meaningless to argue if you agree that it is indeed important, making the use of the figures to prove this point, meaningless.

 

[Xzi]

I'm not sure you're joking or have actually been brainwashed to this point. Bolsonaro is actively persecuting those setting fire. It's the NGOs who stopped receiving money this year for their "work" on the forest, and there's evidence the fires are a ploy to receive international funding. It looks like first-world media seriously is leading you to believe it so you guys can be happy to send money like god damn retards.

This is exactly the same shit being spewed by Bolsonaro himself. He hasn't provided a shred of evidence to back these claims, and neither have you.

The Brazilian president, Jair Bolsonaro, has accused environmental groups of setting fires in the Amazon as he tries to deflect growing international criticism of his failure to protect the world’s biggest rainforest.

A surge of fires in several Amazonian states this month followed reports that farmers were feeling emboldened to clear land for crop fields and cattle ranches because the new Brazilian government was keen to open up the region to economic activity.

Two weeks ago, a Brazilian newspaper reported that farmers, not NGOs, were planning a 'day of fire.' THAT would've been the time to do something about it if Bolsonaro actually gave a shit, but his entire campaign hinged mostly on the promise that he'd open up more "economic opportunities" through deforestation.

 

[H1B1Esquire]

fun fact; the Amazon Rainforest produces more than 20% of earth's oxygen.

The Amazon Rainforest also takes in a decent percentage of CO2...2bad for those assholes, by that, I mean loggers.

RIP Emyra Waiãpi; I hope the people guilty of your murder enjoy the same fate...and their families, from the heads of corporations to the asshole who bought the weapon, all the way to the guy who saw the murder and said, "Oh!" because fuck 'em.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...nvade-indigenous-village-brazil-leader-killed

I don't monetarily support TG, but citations.

 

[chrisrlink]

welp nice knowing ya guys 2019/2020 is when the world ends thanks to multiple governments

 

[bodefuceta]

The guardian quote

Wow, they're saying exactly what I said they were. How does this contradict anything?

Two weeks ago, a Brazilian newspaper reported that farmers, not NGOs, were planning a 'day of fire.'

False flag 101 right here brothers, hop in.

Seriously, it's ridiculous how you keep talking while obvious knowing absolutely nothing. You'd believe in the manchurian incident for fuck's sake, and cite some newspaper article as proof. Good for you to live the easy life in a civilized country, because you would be very much dead here. It's no wonder why muslisms will replace you

 

[Xzi]

False flag 101 right here brothers, hop in.

Seriously, it's ridiculous how you keep talking while obvious knowing absolutely nothing. You'd believe in the manchurian incident for fuck's sake, and cite some newspaper article as proof. Good for you to live the easy life in a civilized country, because you would be very much dead here. It's no wonder why muslisms will replace you

Between being economically isolated and environmentally devastated, it won't surprise me if everybody there ends up dead soon. So enjoy the consequences of buying into Trumpian-style bullshit politics, and don't say I didn't warn ya.

 

[HomeStarRunnerTron]

I'm not sure you're joking or have actually been brainwashed to this point.

Errr... I'm confused, why did you quote me saying "uses" from a thread about inventive gamepad uses? ...

 

[sarkwalvein]

Seriously, it's ridiculous how you keep talking while obvious knowing absolutely nothing.

It's good and healthy to do some introspection, well done. Though, using the first person when you talk to the mirror sounds weird.

 

[bodefuceta]

Between being economically isolated and environmentally devastated, it won't surprise me if everybody there ends up dead soon. So enjoy the consequences of buying into Trumpian-style bullshit politics, and don't say I didn't warn ya.

That's so scary, coming from an armchair revolutionary in a country women can barely bear having children. We've won against hordes trained by bolsheviks. Our people are happy and kind, and won't fall for yet another revolutionary ploy, neither from guerilla or soy creatures like you. The majority voted for Bolsonaro and no matter how much the international media foolery tries, we'll remain strong. If you have any sense it's you who will follow our steps or face destruction at a more cohesive power like islam!

 

[Humanity]

Here's one link of many: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ecord-surge-forest-fires-190821052601171.html

Apparently it's most likely man made, makes sense as it's a rainforest. This is sad, the news is not giving this enough attention, it has been going on for weeks.

Just one fun fact; the Amazon Rainforest produces more than 20% of earth's oxygen.

EDIT: I just read a tweet about how when the Notre Dame was on fire, every second of it was covered and billionaires came to the rescue, but not in this more pressing case in comparison.

notre dame is trash and should have been ignored.

Save Amazon. Save Amazon. Save Amazon. Save Amazon.

 

[Xzi]

Finally some good news in regards to this topic: Bolivia's president Evo Morales has contracted a 747 supertanker to help extinguish the fires, along with sending three more helicopters and 500 troops. The supertanker can hold water equivalent to 100 regular air tankers.

On the first day of the fires spreading to Bolivia, President Evo Morales visited the areas and brought two helicopters to evacuate affected communities, along with large shipments of emergency food aid.

The new measures by the government come amid calls by right-wing opposition candidate Carlos Mesa to allow foreign aid to help put out the fires.

Nevertheless, Bolivia’s government has long rejected calls for outside intervention for natural disasters, arguing that Bolivia’s economy has developed enough to provide sufficient resources to cope, and must deal with issues internally to protect sovereignty. Speaking earlier in the year when flash floods hit the Department of Beni, Vicepresident Alvaro Garcia Linera said “Bolivia has the resources...the era of begging [to outsiders] has passed, leave that to Carlos Mesa”.

Scary socialist boogeymen to the rescue.

 

[SG854]

Here's one link of many: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ecord-surge-forest-fires-190821052601171.html

Apparently it's most likely man made, makes sense as it's a rainforest. This is sad, the news is not giving this enough attention, it has been going on for weeks.

Just one fun fact; the Amazon Rainforest produces more than 20% of earth's oxygen.

EDIT: I just read a tweet about how when the Notre Dame was on fire, every second of it was covered and billionaires came to the rescue, but not in this more pressing case in comparison.

Hmm...while obviously not a bad thing, I just read a piece that puts things into perspective a bit. It probably won't make me popular, but I'm not on this forum for that.

The article itself can be found here, but as it's both in Dutch and a premium for my newspaper, I translate a bit.

It mainly questions the alarming number of the amount of reported fires. This is a bit exaggerated, based on the following points:

1) it's not that easy to measure the actual amount and size of the fires. And the number ("nearly 75'000 fires") came from a wrong interpretation of data, namely the 'fire counts'. Due to how fires are counted, individual fires are often counted multiple times.

2) the current amount and size doesn't seem to be a record (yet). In this period of the year, 2016 had much more carbon dioxide emission than currently. The peak, however, is usually around the end of August and goes on for some months. Meaning: there's no sign that it'll stop soon.

3) the smoke shown on satellite photos don't exactly show the actual fires. More specifically: farmers often burn down pieces of their own ground to make it better for plantation. On satellite photos, it can seem a whole lot worse than it is

4) the media attention itself isn't here "because of the fires" (as said: this happens every year), but because the media attention is already on fires in e.g. Greece and California. Sao Paolo being dark due to smoke in the middle of the day obviously didn't help.

5) yes, Bolsonaro cut the power of his government in preservation of the rainforest largely, but he's not the first president at all to allow it. He merely accelerated it (okay: and he pisses off the community).

6) some shared pictures that are currently going viral are years old. That's...obviously not helping to solve the actual problem (protesters: "stop this fire!" Bolsonaro: "sure thing. THIS fire has been dealt with...in 1989 ").



It's not because we disagree with each other that I'm misinformed. Shall we leave it at that, or shall I return the favor and get personal for no reason?

The whole Amazon Rain forest fires is fake news. Surprised?



Fires in the Amazon has been happening for years. Farmers burn land called slash and burn to prepare land for crops, which is a commonly used method in many parts of the world.

From the New York Times most of the fires happens on farm land were the rain forest was already cleared.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/24/world/americas/amazon-rain-forest-fire-maps.html

Data shows you all the fires from 2001. No one though made a big deal back then. It's up this year compared to the last 8 years. But compared to the 2000's they were worse during that time.


The bigger problem is deforestation by farmers to create new land for more crops. If people are so concerned about rain forest deforestation then stop eating soybeans. It's soybean farms after soybean farms. This is just a regular common person problem and them buying soybeans that causes this deforestation.




And an interesting thing about the Amazon soil was that it was created by humans. The land there is really infertile. So the Amazonian's have created an artificial soil called Terra Preta (or Amazonian Dark Earth). Basically they created one of the earths richest soil, and can instantly turn infertile land with barren soil to highly fertile grounds with this man made soil. And its made with bio-char. They created it by burning and smoldering so that it wont produce charcoal. It's called slash and char, which reduces carbon emissions compared to the slash and burn method. So basically the Amazon is a man made rain forest.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060301090431.htm

 

[Kunty]

We have a bolsominion in our midst.

 

[supersonicwaffle]

The whole Amazon Rain forest fires is fake news. Surprised?



Fires in the Amazon has been happening for years. Farmers burn land called slash and burn to prepare land for crops, which is a commonly used method in many parts of the world.

From the New York Times most of the fires happens on farm land were the rain forest was already cleared.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/24/world/americas/amazon-rain-forest-fire-maps.html

Data shows you all the fires from 2001. No one though made a big deal back then. It's up this year compared to the last 8 years. But compared to the 2000's they were worse during that time.


The bigger problem is deforestation by farmers to create new land for more crops. If people are so concerned about rain forest deforestation then stop eating soybeans. It's soybean farms after soybean farms. This is just a regular common person problem and them buying soybeans that causes this deforestation.




And an interesting thing about the Amazon soil was that it was created by humans. The land there is really infertile. So the Amazonian's have created an artificial soil called Terra Preta (or Amazonian Dark Earth). Basically they created one of the earths richest soil, and can instantly turn infertile land with barren soil to highly fertile grounds with this man made soil. And its made with bio-char. They created it by burning and smoldering so that it wont produce charcoal. It's called slash and char, which reduces carbon emissions compared to the slash and burn method. So basically the Amazon is a man made rain forest.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060301090431.htm

Saw that NYT article as well, definitely interesting, it does seem like the fires are mainly in deforested areas and an explanation that it's agricultural seems plausible but I have to admit I haven't paid too much attention to the story to begin with so I'll be careful with drawing conclusions.

With regards to Graham Hancock, this is what Wikipedia has to say about him

Graham Bruce Hancock (/ˈhænkɒk/; born 2 August 1950) is a British writer and journalist. He is known for his pseudoscientific theories[1] involving ancient civilisations, Earth changes, stone monuments or megaliths, altered states of consciousness, ancient myths, and astronomical or astrological data from the past.

Hancock's works propose a connection with a 'mother culture' from which he believes other ancient civilisations sprang.[2] An example of pseudoarchaeology, his work has neither been peer reviewed nor published in academic journals.[1][3][4]

I know that Wikipedia isn't always fair so I try to read parts of the articles in multiple languages but the German Wikipedia does repeat the accusations of pseudoscience from the scientific community.

That Tera Preta stuff is fascninating though.

 

[bodefuceta]

I don't think the origins of Terra Preta are completely known, but it's definitely related to slash-and-char. It's definitely possible for humans to improve the quality of soil, it's known since at least middle ages, and it's also a known fact the deforested parts of the Amazon have better soil, and that's also related to inserting hooved animals. But I wouldn't quickly jump into conclusions as to what one fire in particular is going to cause to the soil. All I can say about it is, it does not look like a big cause for concern.

 

[SG854]

Saw that NYT article as well, definitely interesting, it does seem like the fires are mainly in deforested areas and an explanation that it's agricultural seems plausible but I have to admit I haven't paid too much attention to the story to begin with so I'll be careful with drawing conclusions.om

With regards to G rmaham Hancock, this is what Wikipedia has to say about him


I know that Wikipedia isn't always fair so I try to read parts of the articles in multiple languages but the German Wikipedia does repeat the accusations of pseudoscience from the scientific community.

That Tera Preta stuff is fascninating though.

Graham Hancock probably said pseudoscience stuff in the past, I don't know much about him or care enough to research and find out. But even Liars or conspiracy theorist can say truthful things sometimes. A person's history of lies or pseudo science is not important, what's important is their content and what they say for the specific thing I'm talking about and if its correct. Their of history lies only makes me more cautious of what they say but not completely dismissive. People accuse Trump of being an obsessive liar right, but if he said the moon landing is real not faked, or if he said the earth is not flat you wouldn't say well he lies a lot and says pseudo science stuff so therefore what he said is wrong, the earth is flat only because he said its not.


There is a picture of Terra Preta soil online and science articles talking about it so that's a real thing, he was right about that.

Smithsonian article about humans shaping the Amazon forest.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scie...nforest-was-actually-shaped-humans-180962378/

And an Atlantic article
https://www.theatlantic.com/science...cient-humans-helped-enrich-the-amazon/518439/

He was right about that too. And people tearing down the forest for soybean farms. The New York times article mentioned it so he's right about that too. And that's all that matters for the point I'm making. Is those specific things in my post is real and not his history of pseudo science for topics that has nothing to do with the topics I'm talking about. Agriculture crops and beef eating is the reason for deforestation. But who's willing to give those things up? If they are willing to cause a big commotion about needing the forest for oxygen and preserving nature then I'm sure they'll be more than happy to give up those things.

 

[Xzi]

From the New York Times most of the fires happens on farm land were the rain forest was already cleared.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/24/world/americas/amazon-rain-forest-fire-maps.html

Err...that article says 35% of fires are burning in areas that have not previously been deforested, and they're burning with a greater intensity than years past. Which makes sense given that this year has seen record-high temperatures worldwide. 35% is also not a small number when we're talking about thousands of individual fires.

Even Bolsonaro has changed his tune in recent days about the severity of the problem and committed over 40,000 troops to extinguishing these fires. Then again, given his past statements and actions, we can only hope that's his true motive for this deployment, rather than committing genocide against the indigenous tribes of the Amazon.

 

[SG854]

Err...that article says 35% of fires are burning in areas that have not previously been deforested, and they're burning with a greater intensity than years past. Which makes sense given that this year has seen record-high temperatures worldwide. 35% is also not a small number when we're talking about thousands of individual fires.

Even Bolsonaro has changed his tune in recent days about the severity of the problem and committed over 40,000 troops to extinguishing these fires. Then again, given his past statements and actions, we can only hope that's his true motive for this deployment, rather than committing genocide against the indigenous tribes of the Amazon.

Where does it say 35% of fires is burning in areas that have not been previously deforested?

It says there are 35% more fires but that could be slash and burn type planed fires used for farming. And I know about the 35% number since I read the article and even acknowledged it in my post you are quoting. There are more fires then the previous few years but compared to the 2000's fires were worse which is what I said in that post.


And in the article it says that fires is not a natural occurrence in this region and all fires are caused by humans, so its not the record-high temperatures that's causing them. Fires that expand beyond farming is to be expected since it can be a beast to control, and most fires are by farmers for farming which is a common world wide practice and its done in already deforested areas, so some of the news surrounding this incident is fake news.





There are species of plants out there that have evolved in areas where fires is a natural common occurrence called Serotiny. Plants with Pyriscence have evolved to release their seeds when its triggered by heat. Which took thousands of years to evolve, a survival mechanism that evolved in fire areas in Australia, Africa, and South America.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I don't think the origins of Terra Preta are completely known, but it's definitely related to slash-and-char. It's definitely possible for humans to improve the quality of soil, it's known since at least middle ages, and it's also a known fact the deforested parts of the Amazon have better soil, and that's also related to inserting hooved animals. But I wouldn't quickly jump into conclusions as to what one fire in particular is going to cause to the soil. All I can say about it is, it does not look like a big cause for concern.

It's really interesting how they have invented this. They are not stupid people, more advance then we thought.
Slash and Burn doesn't look sustainable long term compared to Slash and Char.

 

[Xzi]

Where does it say 35% of fires is burning in areas that have not been previously deforested?

Oh my bad, I was mixing up two different parts of the article. It doesn't give an exact percentage.

Mr. Cochrane noted that while a large majority of the fires were on land that had already been cleared, many others were detected burning with particular intensity. He said these were likely deforestation fires, not just fires for clearing previously deforested land.

And in the article it says that fires is not a natural occurrence in this region and all fires are caused by humans, so its not the record-high temperatures that's causing them. Fires that expand beyond farming is to be expected since it can be a beast to control, and most fires are by farmers for farming which is a common world wide practice and its done in already deforested areas, so some of the news surrounding this incident is fake news.

I was referring to the intensity of the fires, not the cause of them. We know the cause was farmers/loggers.