New Abortion Law Wave

[linuxares]

The brain is weird. And I think that happens, because the human body can't birth something with that big of a head XD. So a lot of the cognitive stuff has to happen outside the body. I dunno, is it more of a lvl1 brain at the third trimester you think?

I know we're still figure out what happens and when as far as like, development. I remember hearing when I was younger that you're like, done when you're in your 20s or 30s. But apparently it's more of a shift into different types of development? My knowledge is a bit fuzzy at this point. It's pretty dang exciting stuff to talk about.

Trust me, it's a lot we don't know about the brain. So what I said might be wrong tomorrow.

 

[FAST6191]

Then you are stupid. I am done. Thanks for discussion. I feel sorry if you ever become a father and still believe that abortion is a right choice. I am done. Thanks.

How are we supposed to want to adopt your position if you provide no reason and insult people? That is not how debate generally works. Again you seem rather sure in your reasons for thinking the way you do but I have nothing to look at to figure out whether you are on to something with it.

About the brain, funny enough. It's not fully grown until the age of 25. If I remember correct the brain does grow in the baby, but at the age of 3 is when it really starts to grow. That's why you don't really remember stuff from earlier than that. Since your brain wasn't developed completely.

It gets even more fun than that. People have speculated more on the timeline there and pondered if the rather early birth of humans (elephants do some 22 months) is because the head growth would be too much to fit down a birth canal otherwise.

 

[linuxares]

How are we supposed to want to adopt your position if you provide no reason and insult people? That is not how debate generally works. Again you seem rather sure in your reasons for thinking the way you do but I have nothing to look at to figure out whether you are on to something with it.



It gets even more fun than that. People have speculated more on the timeline there and pondered if the rather early birth of humans (elephants do some 22 months) is because the head growth would be too much to fit down a birth canal otherwise.

I'm not jealous of women... that must be painful enough and just imagine a bigger head... ooooof

 

[DeadlyFoez]

Lets make it super simple. Fine, stupid fucking bitches want to go and MURDER their own flesh and blood because they are heartless pieces of scumbag shit. Then this is what should be done in return. Make the woman get sterilized so she can NEVER get pregnant again. Hell, even better, sew her vagina shut. Oh, even better, throw the cold blooded wench into prison. Best yet, just chop her fucking head off. Useless whores are useless.

 

[DBlaze]

Lets make it super simple. Fine, stupid fucking bitches want to go and MURDER their own flesh and blood because they are heartless pieces of scumbag shit. Then this is what should be done in return. Make the woman get sterilized so she can NEVER get pregnant again. Hell, even better, sew her vagina shut. Oh, even better, throw the cold blooded wench into prison. Best yet, just chop her fucking head off. Useless whores are useless.

You seem to have some cropped up issues, might want to get some help with that

 

[DeadlyFoez]

You seem to have some cropped up issues, might want to get some help with that

I think murders should die as well. Nothing wrong with my thinking. Abortion is murder and I feel strongly that anyone whom gets an abortion should get charged with the same crime as anyone whom commits murder.

 

[linuxares]

Funny enough I see a big parallel here. It seems that more abortion haters comes from the US. Is this mostly unique in the US about abortion being bad? Since theirs a lot of facts about the fetus not feeling anything during a abortion since most of them today are medical and not surgical.

 

[DBlaze]

I think murders should die as well. Nothing wrong with my thinking. Abortion is murder and I feel strongly that anyone whom gets an abortion should get charged with the same crime as anyone whom commits murder.

So what do you do with the baby if the woman dies due to complications during childbirth, kill the baby? Can the baby be held accountable in that case? Death indirectly caused? Or do you draw a moral line there after all?
At an early stage, it's nothing more than a blob of cells.

Children growing up in by default broken situations, isn't good for anyone and is insanely prone to just causing more issues down the line.
Try thinking about a close friend or family member being raped and getting pregnant as a result. What would you do, force them to keep it, else she should die?

It's not that easy or black and white if you've ever encountered that kind of situation up close.

 

[kumikochan]

United states having 3th world country laws like they had in Medieval Europe. Who would have guessed cough cough

 

[supersonicwaffle]

I can tell you about both ends and a bit in-between. At the beginning, a fertilized egg is just a template. Genetic code that is basically a "how-to" to build a human. And seeing as that plan changes in the womb based on environmental factors, it's more of a rough draft of a plan. 1st-draft blueprints, let's call it.

The woman's body provides the resources needed to build the blueprints. It does it slowly, and does it oddly. We are a history of our evolution, and this shows in our embryonic development/blueprint building phase. It takes a pretty long time for the blueprint to look different than most other mammals, actually. Closer to birth you get, the further down the evolutionary chain you go. As our big brain is pretty much our huge unique feature when compared to our closest relatives, this also means it is the last to develop. This happens around the third trimester, or month 7. As we are our brain, it's pretty safe to say the person isn't a person until maybe probably around this point. This is also around the point when a child starts becoming viable (capable of living outside the womb) for similar reasons.

Usually it's near or before this point that most laws are "nah, no abortions past this point". which most everyone is fine with. As for what makes a "baby", I guess that depends on whether you consider a person is their brain or if they're something more...supernatural.

Thank you for your reply.

To tell you the truth I don't really know what to make of it. I have no problem with abortion at the embryonic state or even early fetal stage.

Viability starting around month 7 is also technically incorrect according to the Wikipedia article on medical viability, in month 7 the chance of survival is already above 90%, however a fetus has a small chance of survival at the end of month 5 (22nd week).

I guess my position boils down to the following:

• Everything after entering the fetal stage (week 14), is a moral grey area, there's no clear answer to me at what point the fetus' life is worthy if legal protection
• Abortions at the stage of overwhelming chance of survival kinda are murder (which according to Wikipedia is legal in Canada and some US states)

What can I take away from this? I guess if late term abortion was something that was legal in my country then you might find me at a pro-life rally.

 

[chrisrlink]

on a side note the government was built on rebellion try that today and especially durring trumps reign you'll be on death row

 

[linuxares]

on a side note the government was built on rebellion try that today and especially durring trumps reign you'll be on death row

Yes, that's why you guys got the second amendment, because of rebellion. So the people could always take arms to overthrow the goverment if necessary. You and me both that doesn't work or will happen today. So it's outdated.
Then again, a lot of countries are form after rebellions and none diplomatic ways.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

So what do you do with the baby if the woman dies due to complications during childbirth, kill the baby? Can the baby be held accountable in that case? Death indirectly caused? Or do you draw a moral line there after all?
At an early stage, it's nothing more than a blob of cells.

Children growing up in by default broken situations, isn't good for anyone and is insanely prone to just causing more issues down the line.
Try thinking about a close friend or family member being raped and getting pregnant as a result. What would you do, force them to keep it, else she should die?

It's not that easy or black and white if you've ever encountered that kind of situation up close.

Oh god. Don't act like one of those shit heads that want to take what only happens in an EXTREMELY MINUTE amount of cases and use that as your argument. And seriously, don't be a pedantic little shit. It is obviously not a god damn babies intentional fault if the mother dies, so seriously, don't be a shit head.

You know, adoption is a choice. Just because a child was born from rape or incest (again, extremely minute amount of cases, not worth using that as your ammo) does not mean that the child should lose it's chance at life because of someone else's poor or terrible choices. IDFC if the child may grow up retarded or deformed, it deserves a chance at life, and if it hates life that much, well I also support a person's right to die when it is their own choice.

Ironically, the only people that should be aborted are the ones voting for the right to have an abortion.

 

[linuxares]

Oh god. Don't act like one of those shit heads that want to take what only happens in an EXTREMELY MINUTE amount of cases and use that as your argument. And seriously, don't be a pedantic little shit. It is obviously not a god damn babies intentional fault if the mother dies, so seriously, don't be a shit head.

You know, adoption is a choice. Just because a child was born from rape or incest (again, extremely minute amount of cases, not worth using that as your ammo) does not mean that the child should lose it's chance at life because of someone else's poor or terrible choices. IDFC if the child may grow up retarded or deformed, it deserves a chance at life, and if it hates life that much, well I also support a person's right to die when it is their own choice.

Ironically, the only people that should be aborted are the ones voting for the right to have an abortion.

Again these are feelings more than actually facts etc.
I feel the woman should have the right to have the baby if they want it. Also not to born the child if they don't want it. I'm also supported of juridical abortion for the father if he wish nothing todo with the baby.

To claim it's murder, is just silly. Then you feel the same for bacteria and viruses as well? They also have the right to live then right? They aren't more than cells, just quite more harmful. There must be a line somewhere and I feel 16 weeks is pretty fair. By then you probably know you're pregnant. So you can terminate it when ever you like.

As I said, most abortions today are performed medicinal, you basically start a miscarriage. I guess miscarriage is murder as well... oh and male orgasm should be genocide.

 

[kumikochan]

Oh god. Don't act like one of those shit heads that want to take what only happens in an EXTREMELY MINUTE amount of cases and use that as your argument. And seriously, don't be a pedantic little shit. It is obviously not a god damn babies intentional fault if the mother dies, so seriously, don't be a shit head.

You know, adoption is a choice. Just because a child was born from rape or incest (again, extremely minute amount of cases, not worth using that as your ammo) does not mean that the child should lose it's chance at life because of someone else's poor or terrible choices. IDFC if the child may grow up retarded or deformed, it deserves a chance at life, and if it hates life that much, well I also support a person's right to die when it is their own choice.

Ironically, the only people that should be aborted are the ones voting for the right to have an abortion.

Seems that mindset is only something shared in your country. Every country in Europe makes abortion legal during the first trimester, even countries where they're still strict catholic. I really don't get why America has that medieval mindset with abortion and everything else. Well i'm proud to live in a country where we are one of the first that legalized gay marriage, abortion and even euthanasia. It's 2019 and not the 1400's. It's all funny how you're all screaming murder when somebody's does abortion but you're all fine with sending baby chicks through a blender and killing of thousands of lams and baby calves every single day. How hypocritical !

 

[Kunty]

Why don't women closed their legs then ? Yes, there are women condoms. Google it. What are you talking about gay nor transgender ? This is about abortion thread.

Oh ok so it has to be the woman who closes her legs. Maybe the guy should keep his dick in his pants? Femidoms are uncomfortable, condoms are much better. I mention it because typically anti-abortion people also tend to be anti-anything but cisgender white male. Are you going to give a shit about a child after its born? Or do you only care when it's an embryo?

 

[DeadlyFoez]

Medieval? For real? Medieval would more like "The whore has a baby in her belly. Just shove a hot pike up there and kill, and to hell with it if the whore dies as well", and then they would actually carry out that type of an action. Medieval times were a rather lawless time. So I think you have that confused.

 

[osaka35]

Thank you for your reply.

To tell you the truth I don't really know what to make of it. I have no problem with abortion at the embryonic state or even early fetal stage.

Viability starting around month 7 is also technically incorrect according to the Wikipedia article on medical viability, in month 7 the chance of survival is already above 90%, however a fetus has a small chance of survival at the end of month 5 (22nd week).

I guess my position boils down to the following:

• Everything after entering the fetal stage (week 14), is a moral grey area, there's no clear answer to me at what point the fetus' life is worthy if legal protection
• Abortions at the stage of overwhelming chance of survival kinda are murder (which according to Wikipedia is legal in Canada and some US states)

What can I take away from this? I guess if late term abortion was something that was legal in my country then you might find me at a pro-life rally.

That's true. Though the reason for the higher chance at month 7 is because of the brain stuff. End of month 5 takes some science wizardry to ensure the baby can still continue to develop.
Week 14, or the second trimester, most of the organs start happening, aside from the brain really. So it starts looking like something that is kinda human at this point. If your definition of human is it looks human-ish and has a developing liver, heart, etc., then this is your trimester.

Since overwhelming chance of survival is the criteria for a lot of places, that places it around the 3rd trimester, yes? I'm morally okay up to that point, personally. It's also still not my decision, being a guy.

I think the canadian stance is, since it's unconscionable to make a woman do something with her body against her will, her permission is still required to do anything. Same as if had a blood type required to save someone's life in an emergency situation and you were the only one around to do it: still your choice, even if it'd probably immoral not to. The state can't dictate what someone can or can't do with their body, is their position. Not pro-late-term abortion, more of a "we cannot make a decision because the state cannot morally be allowed to make those kinds of decisions".

 

[DeadlyFoez]

Again these are feelings more than actually facts etc.
I feel the woman should have the right to have the baby if they want it. Also not to born the child if they don't want it. I'm also supported of juridical abortion for the father if he wish nothing todo with the baby.

To claim it's murder, is just silly. Then you feel the same for bacteria and viruses as well? They also have the right to live then right? They aren't more than cells, just quite more harmful. There must be a line somewhere and I feel 16 weeks is pretty fair. By then you probably know you're pregnant. So you can terminate it when ever you like.

As I said, most abortions today are performed medicinal, you basically start a miscarriage. I guess miscarriage is murder as well... oh and male orgasm should be genocide.

Bacteria? Oh come on. We are talking about a human life. Fuck, I will stomp on ants, swat at wasps, eradicate rodents, and chop chickens heads off. I am a farmer. I do what is necessary to help support human life.

Don't have sex if you can not accept the consequences of your actions. Don't drive drunk if you can't handle going to jail for life for killing someone. Life is full of consequences for your actions. This should not be any different.

If anyone thinks that abortion is alright, then what if I drive drunk and I kill someone? I don't get to call 'backsies' and be like "eh, I don't want to deal with the consequences of my actions today". You make a choice and now you must live with it.

And yes, there are always special circumstances for the cases where the mother or child may die from pregnancies. But that should not be the basis of an argument. Bringing those up is akin to someone making a statement that says "People are born with 8 fingers and 2 thumbs", and then some snooty college liberal shithead yells of from the back of the auditorium "No. Some people are born with extra digits. So we need to change the medical book to never say that people how many digits people are born with".

 

[Bonehead]

Don't judge abortions until have you've had a few. Would be like reviewing a game you haven't played.

I rate all of my abortions 8 out of 10. They kick ass.