Gaming Early access crap

[Kouen Hasuki]

KS and indiegogo are different, if you just think for one minute with your open mind, you would see it. Projects looking for crowd funds will not be made without the support of people. They come in, say their budget requirement, mention their plans for the game and "pitch" their projects to the masses. When the game is already being made, and they do not indicate that they are running out of money, which is the case in many of these early access stuff, why the hell do they need to sell their product earlier?!

Wrong. People go to Kickstarter and Indiegogo to get money to finish projects also :|

Every single game gets a big banner at least for a few hours on the first days of its release. They can by all means, use this to get more publicity but not for something that has not been finished. That is what Greenlight is for.

No, No they dont. I have been a user on steam for many years... I think I would have noticed that by now.

For instance and I shall prove my point!

The other day a game was released on steam called "Eryi's Action" (Which I bought) I check steam at 7PM every day to check out the new daily deals. It is at this time that games most often also get there release. Did it have a HUGE Banner? No. Did it have a full page spread? No. Did it even get mentioned when I exited my game? No. All it got was mentioned in the list as a recently released games.

SO! Lemme put it to you!

Would you rather Kickstart / IndieGoGo a Game and wait 2 years for return knowing that they are using all your money on a promise you will get something back eventually WHICH May not happen (and that has happened on these croud funded sites) Or go to steam with there Early Access with the same Minimum "Buy in" being the same on both for a guaranteed copy at the end?

Now you can say YES! I Would rather throw my money at a project and have to rely on newsletters to tell me whats going on and I should hope and pray that the game gets done and is good!

Or

No, Id rather have something to show for my money! I want to make sure my investment is going to the cause and that the final product is something I would have wanted to buy!

OK Now lets look at both mentalities applied to Early Access

Want to Invest and play when its done = Buy early access pass and dont play it until it goes gold. Devs update the players as much if not more on the steam forums related to the product, In fact they are OBLIGATED too you can still keep up to date with the development and you have your product in the end.
Want to try my investment out and shape it and make sure it turns out good = Buy Early Access and play it, Find Bugs or things you dont like? Report them in the steam forum!

Now your gonna be like "Ya well Kickstarter projects and IndieGoGo ones offer access to beta's too so I dont have to go through steam so ner ner" yes, yes some do. but in that case that's still no different to steam's early access feature!

you know what now we are on a roll and im on a rant lets focus on your "Steam lets you buy into an unfinished game and it takes sssssssssoooooooooooo long" Do you know how long it takes to develop a game especially since many of the ones that are coming up on Early Access are Indie / Tiny Studio's? lets just say while the likes of Ininity Ward can clone another cod game in a year they have 100's working on em now knock that down to say.... 7 Guys then how long do you think it will take? also Minecraft says Hi!

OH! I forgot your comment about thats what steam greenlight is for!

2 things a unfinished project ran through steam greenlight (with the cost of $100) gets through... what do you think it will turn into? thats right a Early Access title :|

the other thing is I am getting the vibe you think if a studio runs out of money for what ever reason during development they should scrap all there hard work :| yea you work on something for a year or 2 all dedicated and then scrap your hopes and dreams and that length of your life

 

[aiat_gamer]

Stuff!

You know you sound like someone trying to make excuses for poorly managed projects. Let me first say this: KS and indiegogo clearly state their aim, they clearly say that backing the project does not mean that it will 100% be made without any problems. The thing I like about them however, is that I can clearly see how much money developers need to finish/make their game (BTW, the projects that need money to finish a game opposed to ones that need the money to actually make the game are becoming less and less everyday). I still think early access does not 100% translate to a finished game, I am willing to bet that we will start to see half finished games and controversies coming from steam early access and this time, it will be different from KS and indiegogo. I also bet that almost every single person getting in the early access for a game expects that it will 100% be finished and released.
Also, why the hell I am I the one who should care about some guys running out of money while making a game? Who asked them to quite their jobs and make games in the first place?! To me the end product is all I think about, I don't give a crap about the problems or any hurdles the developers face, why shouldn't I? They can just stick to a regular paying job like the rest of us if they cant plan things in advance and run out of money. You sound like those weird guys running to the defense of half finished buggy games that are released telling everyone who payed money to give the developers some slack and how making games are hard and sh## ( just check the forums for X Rebirth for example). You know there are indie developers that do not whine to everyone about their problems and actually keep their heads down, make their game, finish it and then release it? Have you heard of a little game Super Meat Boy? Do you know how long it took them to make that game? Have you seen Indie Game: The Movie? Did they run and start asking people for money? Did they release a half finished game and charge people for it...?

I can understand if every once in a while, developers hit a snag and ask people for help. Faster Than Light guys hit such one, they needed money to finish their game, came to KS, said exactly what they needed and got 20 times than what they needed! These I can understand, but working on the game, and start asking form money when you want to do beta or even alpha testing is something I will never understand. Again, Pay Day 2 did this and I think it was the sleaziest thing ever, and from that point on I started seeing a surge of early access game. I mean seriously dude, more than half of new releases on Steam have Early Access plastered all over them, to the point that I wish there was some way to filter them out...

 

[Originality]

This debate seems to be consumer vs developer. Neither side will admit the other is right because both are looking at opposite ends of the table that is the gaming industry.

As an observer, I say that some gamers only care about the games. Some gamers care about the journey. Some gamers care about the source. And the developers at the source make the choice which part of that range the want to aim for first. Be that kick starter, alpha release, or full release.

Still, not as bad as the sword of the stars 2 fiasco.

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

all that crap

You gotta just be trolling... no one can be that stupid even shown clearly by not only me but others on the forum the same opinion and trying to explain to you this stuff you just refuse to listen you just shove your proverbial fingers in your ears and yell "la la la not listening" and your whole "Devs should be able to plan exactly how much they need in advance" is beyond retarded you clearly have 0 clue what goes into indie development or game development in general (Hint: Shit happens that is not accounted for at times)

so lemme put it to you again much more simple so maybe it will get through to you, Ready?

If you don't like early access stuff, Don't buy it! its not that hard to grasp!

and with that I'm done, Not because as you may say "losing" the debate as there is nothing to Lose, the amount of likes and people posting with very similar views show this.

 

[aiat_gamer]

You gotta just be trolling... no one can be that stupid even shown clearly by not only me but others on the forum the same opinion and trying to explain to you this stuff you just refuse to listen you just shove your proverbial fingers in your ears and yell "la la la not listening" and your whole "Devs should be able to plan exactly how much they need in advance" is beyond retarded you clearly have 0 clue what goes into indie development or game development in general (Hint: Shit happens that is not accounted for at times)

so lemme put it to you again much more simple so maybe it will get through to you, Ready?

If you don't like early access stuff, Don't buy it! its not that hard to grasp!

and with that I'm done, Not because as you may say "losing" the debate as there is nothing to Lose, the amount of likes and people posting with very similar views show this.

Troll, retard, stupid...yeah you really know how to argue, kudos! Of course you are among the people who automatically thinks the amount of likes you get, or how many agree with you translates to you being wrong, you must do very well in debates.
Just do me a favor and don't act like you have a clue about " what goes into indie development or game development in general". Over and out!

 

[Originality]

It's not trolling if it's a genuine belief. It's not stupid for a consumer to put his needs before the needs of the developers. After all, developers are slaves to their audience (don't bite that bait). A consumer has little care for the struggles of a game dev leading up to the point where they can buy the finished product, because all they care for is the finished product.

In this case, it's a consumer who is unhappy that a game they are interested in is being sold and advertised even though it's incomplete. This is a consumer finding something he is interested in and being outraged to find it is incomplete. That is his right as a consumer. Doesn't mean anybody else cares (other than game devs and market analysts) but that doesn't make him any less right. You can tried to defend early access games and he didn't accept your arguments. That pretty much means the end of this thread.

Still won't stop the practice of early access games, since a dev also has the right to choose the most effective means to develop, market and distribute their games. Consumers who only care for the end product have little sway in the path game development takes.

 

[LockeCole_101629]

I can write lot's my own opinions here, but I guess it just useless.
There are pro and cons, but I agree with OP.

 

[Issac]

Have you seen Indie Game: The Movie? Did they run and start asking people for money? Did they release a half finished game and charge people for it...?

Minecraft.

 

[Minox]

If you don't like paying for early access to a currently incomplete game then you're always free to vote with your wallet by not supporting such a practice.

 

[calmwaters]

This debate seems to be consumer vs developer. Neither side will admit the other is right because both are looking at opposite ends of the table that is the gaming industry.

As an observer, I say that some gamers only care about the games. Some gamers care about the journey. Some gamers care about the source. And the developers at the source make the choice which part of that range the want to aim for first. Be that kick starter, alpha release, or full release.

Still, not as bad as the sword of the stars 2 fiasco.

I am the first part of this. I think the developers should focus more on people like me. The more games are made, the longer my playthrough journey will be. Of course, there're always sequels too...

 

[CompassNorth]

Don't like? Don't buy. Problem solved.

To be honest its not that far off Kickstarter / IndieGoGo but at least you get something instantly to show for it, also this isn't like a new thing Desura has had that going on for ages now.

To add on top its not like Steam / Dev's are lying about it, You are buying into an Alpha aka a Work In Progress. you know like technically people have been doing for years with Minecraft.

What about early access games that get released obviously buggy/incompleted like Payday 2? Should we just ignore that too?

 

[Minox]

What about early access games that get released obviously buggy/incompleted like Payday 2? Should we just ignore that too?

If you don't like it, then yes by all means do so.

 

[CompassNorth]

If you don't like it, then yes by all means do so.

But how are you supposed to know if the game developers are going to release a buggy game and say it's the finished game?
This is exactly what happened with Payday 2. Tons o people pre-ordered it and got early access, they released the game as advertised it as the finished product in it's buggy state. It didn't even have all the features it was advertised to have.

Consumers are just supposed take the developers word and say they'll release a polished game, but Payday 2 is a good example that they don't have to follow up on their own words.

 

[Originality]

To know how buggy the game is, check the steam forums.
If it's not out yet (i.e. pre-orders) and you don't know if it'll be buggy, then choose if you take the risk (pre-orders are, after all, risks).
You can always buy it when it's out or when it's on sale.

 

[Minox]

But how are you supposed to know if the game developers are going to release a buggy game and say it's the finished game?
This is exactly what happened with Payday 2. Tons o people pre-ordered it and got early access, they released the game as advertised it as the finished product in it's buggy state. It didn't even have all the features it was advertised to have.

Consumers are just supposed take the developers word and say they'll release a polished game, but Payday 2 is a good example that they don't have to follow up on their own words.

Pre-orders can be a complete gamble so if you're worried about such a thing then it's probably recommended not to pre-order anything until you know if the game in question works as it should.

 

[trumpet-205]

But how are you supposed to know if the game developers are going to release a buggy game and say it's the finished game?
This is exactly what happened with Payday 2. Tons o people pre-ordered it and got early access, they released the game as advertised it as the finished product in it's buggy state. It didn't even have all the features it was advertised to have.

Consumers are just supposed take the developers word and say they'll release a polished game, but Payday 2 is a good example that they don't have to follow up on their own words.

That's what you get for being first adopter. Being first meaning you get to play it right off bat, but games maybe buggy, incomplete, etc.

If you don't want that then don't pre-order, and wait for couple weeks and read others review and opinion on the game.

 

[aiat_gamer]

If you don't want that then don't pre-order, and wait for couple weeks and read others review and opinion on the game.

Well that is how to do it, but seriously, the number of early access games are just too much these days. I just wish, I said this before, that I could somehow filter out the early access games from steam.

 

[GamerzHell9137]

U say early access stuff? Aura Kingdom
Pay 20+ bucks so u can play the Super Closed Beta that's gonna be in a couple of days, that's so stupid if u ask me.
Good that they announced Closed Beta Test right after ''Super'' Beta, the only thing that i need now is a Beta key.....