The Pope is dead - what is your country doing about it?

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I am Canadian and as you may know there will soon be an election here. Both the Conservative party leader, Pierre Poilievre and the Liberal party leader Mark Carney are Catholic. Here is what they initially said upon the news on twitter:

"I offer my deepest condolences to all Catholics on the passing of Pope Francis. His humility, compassion, and steadfast faith had a profound impact on millions of Canadians and others around the world from every faith background. We remember especially his historic “penitential pilgrimage” to Canada, when he sought to begin a process of Reconciliation by the Church with his apology “for the evil committed by so many Christians against the Indigenous Peoples.” We join in thankful prayer with the Catholic faithful for his legacy of humble service and his message of love that will continue to inspire a world in need of hope." - Pierre Poilievre





“Today, I join Canadians and Catholics around the world in mourning the passing of His Holiness Pope Francis, Bishop of Rome – a shepherd of deep moral clarity, spiritual courage, and boundless compassion. From every corner of the globe, the prayers of the faithful go with Pope Francis as he journeys to his eternal rest.

“Through his teachings and actions, Pope Francis redefined the moral responsibilities of leadership in the 21st century. In Laudato si’ (Praised Be), his landmark encyclical, he gave voice to ‘the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor’, reminding us that ecological degradation and social injustice are deeply intertwined and demand our shared, urgent leadership.

“His vision of fairness between the generations was rooted in concrete calls for action, policy, and personal responsibility. I had the privilege of working alongside His Holiness and his team through his Council for Inclusive Capitalism, and I saw firsthand his unwavering commitment to placing human dignity at the centre of our economic and political systems.

“At the Vatican meeting in 2014, ‘The Global Common Good: Towards a More Inclusive Economy’, Pope Francis issued a challenge that has guided me ever since. He likened humanity to wine – rich, diverse, full of spirit – and the market to grappa – distilled, intense, and at times disconnected. He called on us to ‘turn grappa back into wine’, to reintegrate human values into our economic lives.

“His Holiness understood, and taught, that value in the market must never eclipse values in society. He showed us that we must not only measure what we value, but also value what truly matters.

“With his visit to Canada and apology to Indigenous Peoples on residential schools, His Holiness heard from Survivors and their descendants about that system’s legacy of searing and enduring pain, and met it with an important step of accountability and healing on the shared path toward reconciliation.

“He extended his papacy to the furthest margins, always attentive to the poor and most vulnerable, as in all aspects of his lifelong service.

“Pope Francis leaves a spiritual and ethical legacy that will shape our collective conscience for generations to come. May we honour his memory by continuing to work for a world that reflects the solidarity, justice, and sustainability that he so powerfully embodied.

“Requiescat in pace.” - Mark Carney









The leader of the NDP Jagmeet Singh commented:

“Pope Francis showed the world that faith can be a powerful force for justice.

He spoke plainly about poverty, inequality, and the climate crisis—and he challenged political and economic leaders to put people before profits. He didn’t just preach humility and compassion—he lived it. And in doing so, he earned the respect of millions, including many far beyond the Catholic Church.

His apology to Survivors of residential schools during his visit to Canada was a meaningful step toward truth and accountability—one that brought deep emotions for many Indigenous families and communities.

His passing is a loss for all who believe in dignity, fairness, and care for one another. His example will not be forgotten.”
 
Catholicism died in the 60s with Vatican 2.0. Nothing about it since has mattered.
I am not Catholic and therefore have never accepted the legitimacy of the Pope although I do have great respect for Catholics and the Popes. If you are Catholic then according to that, I don't really understand how you can deny the Pope like that. They beleive him to be Christs vicar on earth and Christs earthly representative.
In Matthew 16:18, where Jesus tells Peter, "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Catholics believe that this passage signifies Peter's unique role as the foundation upon which the Church is built, and that this authority has been passed down through the succession of Popes. I am currently Protectant but considering becoming Orthodox but I don't really see how Sedevacantism is any different from Protestantism. It always seems crazy to me that "rad trad" Catholics often reject the Pope. You know what is the opposite of traditional Catholicism? Rejecting the Pope. That is literally the opposite of traditional. I don't get why anyone who does that would even remain Catholic. Actual "traditional" Catholicism would be submitting to the Pope not this borderline Protestant offshoot. Not to say you can't have issues or disagreements with the Pope when he is speaking infallibly but he is supposed to be the vicar of Christ on Earth to you so some level of deference and respect to him goes without saying for those calling themselves Catholic. Nothing is "radically traditional" about Catholics rejecting the most important leader of their Church jjust because they don't personally like or agree with it. That is some kind of Protestantism or something in my opinion.


So was Jesus lying when he said the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church?
Or were Catholics just always wrong about what exactly defines the "Church" and it isn't just the Catholic Church?
OR how do Rad trads even justify breaking from what they always believed about these things?
 
Last edited by baobao43,
So was Jesus lying when he said the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church?
Or were Catholics just always wrong about what exactly defines the "Church" and it isn't just the Catholic Church?
OR how do Rad trads even justify breaking from what they always believed about these things?
There's a much simpler explanation than either of these hypotheticals: direct separation.

I'm fairly sure you know the Hindu symbol for "prosperity and good luck". It's too bad that the symbol effectively lost that meaning when it was used by the far right in world war 2.
This...isn't so different. MTG calling the pope evil isn't as shocking as it should, as it's not the first time I've heard from religious groups that claim to follow Jesus...except when it comes to actually following the Jesus as described in the bible. Instead, they follow a sort of fictional idol that goes by the name Christianity (or Catholism? I honestly don't know the difference) but is more a sort of "in name only" the same religion.
 
I am not Catholic and therefore have never accepted the legitimacy of the Pope ....

Catholicism is a beautiful religion but the church sold out its congregation decades ago. They used to be a unifying force or vanguard, a layer of defence against worldly ills. But now? They do more harm than good at this point. There was a schism in Catholicism during the 1960s and many Catholics now do not recognize the current iteration (Vatican 2.0) or view it as illegitimate.
 
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Catholicism is a beautiful religion but the church sold out its congregation decades ago. They used to be a unifying force or vanguard, a layer of defence against worldly ills. But now? They do more harm than good at this point. There was a schism in Catholicism during the 1960s and many Catholics now do not recognize the current iteration (Vatican 2.0) or view it as illegitimate.
Yes, I know that Vatican 2 happened in the early 60's and that some Catholics reject it. I guess I just never understood how one can remain Catholic but reject Vatican 2 and still call themselves "radically traditional Catholic." Like I say, I am not Catholic so maybe I am wrong about this, but it seems to me that rejecting Vatican 2 would be considered schismatic at best by Catholics and more likely heretical. I think that would put radical traditionalist Catholics outside of the Catholic Church. Unless I am wrong because I don't know all the ins and outs of Catholicism. I was just curious if there are any Catholics on here who reject Vatican 2 or Pope Francis for that matter and curious about how they reconcile that with their Catholic faith. Anyway, thanks for the chat.
 
I have an idea....

donald-trump-ai-photo-pope.jpg
 
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Catholicism is a beautiful religion but the church sold out its congregation decades ago. They used to be a unifying force or vanguard, a layer of defence against worldly ills. But now? They do more harm than good at this point. There was a schism in Catholicism during the 1960s and many Catholics now do not recognize the current iteration (Vatican 2.0) or view it as illegitimate.
Where was that layer of defence during the Holocaust?
 
I doubt pope Leo XIV will be persuaded by trump despite being American, (Trump may try and that will turn off alot of catholic voters in the US to not let in another GOP president in for YEARS if not ever again
 
I doubt pope Leo XIV will be persuaded by trump despite being American, (Trump may try and that will turn off alot of catholic voters in the US to not let in another GOP president in for YEARS if not ever again
Pope Leo XIV has made comments which have criticized Trump and Vance (Source). I view this as a good thing, as I can rest assured that he won't try to buy any of the Trump administration's lies. In addition, Pope Leo XIV spent a good deal of his life in Peru as well, so I don't think he harbors any biases against Democrats or Republicans. The thing that he relied on when making these statements was basic moral sense.
 
The new pope is just more of the same, Pope Francis 2.0.

https://globebanner.com/stories/671...vorite-prevost-received-150k-to-remain-silent

And selecting him was clearly a politically motivated move, I know Christians/Catholics should give him a chance and hope he's good, but it is what it is.

I knew they'd never elect Card. Robert Sarah, Card. Pierbattista Pizzaballa, Card. Thomas Collins, and so on, even if they'd try to keep delaying.

Anyway, the most positive thing I've read about Pope Prevost is... "He's an American Pope" okay and who cares? It's not about the nationality, skin color, race, or what language he speaks, rather if he's genuine, humble, kind, and loving.
Post automatically merged:

He could become a Christian Orthodox Pope perhaps, but not Catholic. Seeing as Pope Prevost is quite liberal and progressive maybe he'll try to allow for priests to get married.

And continue what Pope Francis was trying to accomplish, ban TLMs.
 
Last edited by Marc_LFD,
Anyway, the most positive thing I've read about Pope Prevost is... "He's an American Pope" okay and who cares? It's not about the nationality, skin color, race, or what language he speaks, rather if he's genuine, humble, kind, and loving.
Nationality is not much of a concern to me. In my opinion, his centrist positions are the best option for the Catholic Church, as he can please both conservative and progressive Catholics. More conservative Catholics did not like Pope Francis, so I feel that a middle line between the two is the best option. I hope that Pope Leo XIV will be able to continue Pope Francis' legacy without angering conservatives too much.
 
And selecting him was clearly a politically motivated move, I know Christians/Catholics should give him a chance and hope he's good, but it is what it is.
Not sure if you're sarcastic, satirical or plain realistic. Sorry if I missed the tone of your post, but ALL popes are appointed based on internal politics. It was no different for Francis or Ratzinger, and I've been told this goes back to...I dunno. Could very well be older than actual politics, for that matter. From what I can tell, a pope election's a reverse popularity contest: everyone throws mud, and in the end the less muddied one wins. Kind of like American politics, except with more candidates.

With that said...when you say "politically motivated", the question would be "for what agenda?".
He's from Chicago but worked most of the time in Peru. He helps the poor, is critical of Trump(1) and according to allegations, he helped silence the cases against sexual misconduct in the church...and this is just what's been thrown in my feed the last couple of days.


(1): not really sure how that's an argument, as everyone outside MAGA is critical of him
 
I doubt pope Leo XIV will be persuaded by trump despite being American, (Trump may try and that will turn off alot of catholic voters in the US to not let in another GOP president in for YEARS if not ever again
I wouldn't bet my money on that. Half of Catholic voters are Republican and a lot of those don't necessarily love Republicans. They just CANNOT reconcile their beliefs with some of the democratic views. Those will NEVER vote democrat. Have a deep think about #5 here: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/09/15/8-facts-about-catholics-and-politics-in-the-u-s/
 
Nationality is not much of a concern to me. In my opinion, his centrist positions are the best option for the Catholic Church, as he can please both conservative and progressive Catholics. More conservative Catholics did not like Pope Francis, so I feel that a middle line between the two is the best option. I hope that Pope Leo XIV will be able to continue Pope Francis' legacy without angering conservatives too much.

The Pope, like any priest or pastor, is not meant to please Christians but to steer them.
 
I wouldn't bet my money on that. Half of Catholic voters are Republican and a lot of those don't necessarily love Republicans. They just CANNOT reconcile their beliefs with some of the democratic views. Those will NEVER vote democrat. Have a deep think about #5 here: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/09/15/8-facts-about-catholics-and-politics-in-the-u-s/
@chrisrlink talked about the pope, not on the Catholics as a voting block.
I'll concede that abortion (from nr. 5) probably outweighs number 6 (Catholics, like members of many other religious groups, don’t necessarily seek a president who shares their religious beliefs, but they want a president who lives a moral and ethical life.)...probably no matter what position Leo takes.
 
@chrisrlink talked about the pope, not on the Catholics as a voting block.
I'll concede that abortion (from nr. 5) probably outweighs number 6 (Catholics, like members of many other religious groups, don’t necessarily seek a president who shares their religious beliefs, but they want a president who lives a moral and ethical life.)...probably no matter what position Leo takes.
I was specifically addressing: "turn off alot of catholic voters in the US to not let in another GOP president in for YEARS if not ever again"
 

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