A Maniacal Dance of Tales and an Ocean of Stars rant thingy.

As a Star Ocean fan I'm less... disappointed and more indifferent about SO5. Each game in the series has been worse than the last from about star ocean 2 (though you could argue that the SNES version of 1 was the pinnacle of the series).

As a Tales of Fanatic though, it's like both SO's and Tales' studios were liek: "Hey, wanna make a bet for who can make the worse game? ;D " not that the two are related other than having the same origin.

Here's the thing though.
Both Zesty and this have terrible AI.
Both have limited variety in combat and force one specific way to fight.
Both have an insignificant "Rock paper scissor" style that waters down to one type being far more useful than the others.
Both have chests that you can't unlock til "later".
And both have a story as deep as a bag of salted chips.

SO5 certainly wins in the most frustrating category, because not only will the AI take hits to the face like Zesty, but you're expected to protect one of your characters (the one who just HAPPENS to have low defense and HP) multiple times in the story. Oh, and all the enemies will aim for that character by default so unless you grind a bunch or stand in the way of their attacks you'll see often see a game over screen in seconds and have to go through the game's unskippable cut scenes all over again as your characters waddle along like they're zombies for a couple minutes while all Zesty had was an over-reliance on it's fusion gimmick on harder difficulties if you didn't like insta-dying.

Neither AI knows how to heal or revive properly, in SO5 you need to specifically switch to a character to make it do more than tie it's shoelaces in battle. And even if you opt for it, item use is clunky and inconsistent as your character can take between a second or a few to finally decide to throw that blueberry at a character that was begging for their life while our great item thrower decided to randomly ponder about the existential nature of throwing a blueberry to recover ally health.

I guess some amusement can be attained by spamming the same skill over and over because that's what SO5 devolves into quicker than the AI's willingness to run into enemy attacks like it's a stranger giving out free candy, at least if you lack any form of attention span (like everyone who regrets wasting their money on No Man's Sky after realizing how obviously bland it is).

Both of these games feel like they're parallel universe versions of themselves though and it's quite eerie.

I'd rant more but eh, whatever.
I'll be getting the japanese ps4 version of Tales of Berseria next week​
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They do look good though. Also sometimes i like to think Star ocean may be kinda like classic phantasy star. Maybe they should make a star ocean online MMO game. :P
 
@Sonic Angel Knight don't you know? The entirety of Star Ocean IS an MMO ;O;
*shakes fist at Star Ocean 3*

I've never played any Phantasy Star game admittedly =3=;
 
I love your picture!

I haven't play SO5 yet.. I will probably play it even if it's bad, just to see by myself and know the game.
though, not yet. I hope it will get a price reduction sometime. until then, I still have a lot of interesting games to play.
 
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Well i mean aside from not finishing it cause of how hard it is, i gotten to the point when they revealed the story to be some game, so i do know. Wasn't secret of evermore like that too? :P

I mean i'm not particually interested in science fiction most of the time since is very intellectual which i am not saying that i am. Just that i wish that some stories were easy to follow. Don't get me started on how tales of symphonia is a very confusing and dumb plot, or maybe how phantasy star 2 is probably ripped from metroid. :P
 
argh, I tried to play secret of evermore at least 10 times, and always stopped in the first forest. I don't know why that game never passionate me. I tried!
 
Oh trust me, i know why, if you ever played any of those games like secret of mana, then i can understand why. :P

I mean at the time secret of mana was a very interesting game based on the gameplay and characters, the story, seem like your generic hero story, Try combining the story of maybe xenoblade chronicles or kingdom hearts where the main character has the ability to weild some mystical sword and only he can change the world by going on some epic fantasy journey with him being the only hope for peace. Well fine that is good, and all, Except the Enemies are all cheap in that game. People can hit endlessly with you being able to do nothing about it. That is why some turn based rpg games are good. Open world Live battles make things difficult.
 
Got further than me at least, I wrote that game off (perhaps prematurely) as a poor man's Seiken Densetsu 3 (not that I'm still bitter about it never being released in english or anything!!! ). Ahh, I really need to go back and just play the myriad of RPGs I've neglected on SNES (let alone the psx).

Go on a journey to stop the Desians and regenerate the world.
Plot twist; there are two worlds and as one prospers the other declines.
Making pacts with the spirits of both worlds will return both worlds into one again where they wont drain off each other
Plot twist; the two world regeneration system is designed to revive big bad's sister
Plot twist; big bad's sister didn't want to be revived.
Big bad doesn't take it well and wants to take off with important mcguffin.
 
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I'm trying to play my backlog now. (500+ games, I liked too many games back in 90s haha, I wanted everything), mostly RPG but not only.
I'm playing PSX games, one at a time, to catch up and appreciate the games fully instead of trying 1 hour and playing the next one.
forcing myself to complete a game before starting a new one is working fine. I choose more carefully and wisely. And more important, I complete them now!

edit:
I bought secret of mana and C.trigger, and completed them many times back in 90's (lack of money = play the same game for 1 year and a half)
I then bought seiken 3 and completed it in japanese. When the english patch was released I started a new game but never went very far, I started having internet and found the joy of downloading games and having tons of ROM, which I never completed anymore...
trying to fix this will take all my life
 
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Ah, speaking of backlog
d1d922d1cd.png


I've maybe touched 10% of these, and that's steam alone ;O;
 
ahh, you beat me!

completed : 260 (that I can remember)
unfinished : around 550, (than I can remember too), of which 160+ unplayed

steam, gog and psn are evil!

and there are so many more games I wished I'd know.
 
I have a serious problem ;w; but I really admire your ability to just sit down and play through them one at a time.

I've beaten Seiken Densetsu 3 with a few character combinations back in the day, I loved that about it. Was my go to game for trying to see how little things would change story wise.
 
You forgot the part about the GIANT KARLAIN TREE Being the other twist to regenerate the world and the main character dad being involved in the whole mess who was adopted by a dwarf, and the racism between human, elves, and half elves, and that the whole plot was about someone trying to be a god and thinking it was okay to create the whole mess in the first place of reviving his dead sister, pretending to be good when he was the cause of everything. Oh dare, i say there is more? THE SEQUAL? :P

@Cyan did you finally beat the vagrant story or legend of dragoon you were playing? Are you ready to start Rogue Galaxy yet? :D
 
Giant Karlain Tree was the mcguffin I mentioned, I was trying to be devoid of the story's depth. I could also mention that every single character has a painful and in times highly messed up backstory but you seem to have understood the story fine.

The sequel though? Do you mean Symphonia 2? or Phantasia? ;D

THERE'S AN EVIL DOOR THINGY THAT STOPS HELL
Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality
MY BEST FRIEND IS DEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD
Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality
CENTURIANS
Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality
Lloyd didn't do it, it was an imposter
COURAGE IS THE MAGIC THAT TURNS DREAMS INTO REALITY
I don't need you to waste the rest of your life alone Emil, I'M GONNA BURN ALIVE FOREVER!!!!
Le courage est la magie qui transforme les rêves en réalité

(Even though Phantasia TECHNICALLY takes place thousands of years after, much like Zestiria does after Berseria... and if current fan speculation turns out to be accurate, Berseria takes place thousands of years after Symphonia and Phantasia... but that's simply speculation based on some of Zesty's ruin lore and similarities in Berseria's world map and will probably be deemed false)
 
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I honestly thought you were gonna start saying that in different languages as a joke. :P

But whatever a mcguffin is i prefer eggs mc muffins. Or whatever mcdonalds make. :D

But yes, i did mean the giant tree being part of the plot somehow. The story is awful but the game is fun to play and characters are moderatly engaging. I do like how Lloyd sounds like Robin from teen titans, there is a klutz, a sexy female ninja is used for comedic purposes, a narcisitc idiot, a over protective teacher (looks like solder 76 has a run for his money) A rich man turned criminal or appears that way cause he killed his lover for the right reaons, and other nonsencial moments. Did i forget the random people wearing cat costumes. or the other costumes? KLANOA? :creep:

What i don't like is that it seems less like a "PHANTASY" or fantasy, and more like a comparison to real life while adding possible science fiction and maybe too much religon, racisim, governments, power struggles, bretrayals, bullying, and other negative things. Is a VIDEO GAME.

Even most of the places seem to be based on real life, Meltokio seem like.... TOKYO JAPAN or something, then the ice place is obviously some antartica reference. The hiemdall looks like the grand canyon, and whatever. Is a fun game, first 3D game of the series, and maybe just got little bit complicated for a game called TALES OF SYMPHONIA. There way worst stories in rpg with those unnecessary plot twist, but metal gear seems to be the only one to get plot twisting good. :)
 
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Generally for understanding things you can look at something with a basic lens, or you can look deeper.

First 3D battle system at least, technically the overworld map in Phantasia psx also works. :^) If you're pedantic.
And I certainly think Tales' strong suit is it's characters, Lloyd and Genis who live with a sense of responsibility for causing harm to their hometown, Colette who tries to remain cheerful no matter the circumstances, Kratos who had thought he lost everything, Raine who was tossed away with her brother and found their way into another world, Sheena who while a clumsy ninja at first sight holds deep sorrow over her actions, Zelos who outwardly is a clown or a narcissistic idiot but hides a deep regard for those he deems important, intelligence and deep sorrow, Presea who in attempt to help her father lost her humanity consciously watching until she snaps out of it to find everyone close to her dead, and Regal who killed his lover and lives with guilt endlessly.

From a casual glance they are simple characters with simple quirks but behind the scenes there's a layer of depth.
I think great characters and stories are a little bit like great classical music: Outwardly simple and harmonious, but technically complicated. A symphony.

A world that is fantasy must still adhere to some form of logic or structure, things need to connect to a sense of organic structure. You could take it the other way and go full abstract but then you have no real expectations, and that often devolves into no flow. Word salad.
Which is why you see fantasy built on the foundation of real life world parallels, there's a sense of familiarity that lets us accept the world presented more easily.
(I theorize something along the lines of all thoughts within a human mind are limited by the processing of one's experiences picked up by the 5 senses, meaning even abstract thoughts have pieces of reality pasted together in otherwise unexpected combinations)
People are not always happy, often times people are sad, depressed, and in a game where there's some looming threat happiness usually comes in the form of ignorance, slaying the source of negativity is at the core of many games, simple and complex alike, it's the symptom of a problem for which your control of the protagonist is to help cure. But I love seeing how all kinds of stories take that conflict resolution and play with it.

I think games in general have more depth to them than books or movies, a depth that draws in something innocently human from the developers, not shoving things in your face but seeing a world through their eyes.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a game purely for it's gameplay (which is why I love the ability to skip dialogue and cutscenes in replayable RPGs with good gameplay like Tales) but you really have to look past the specific things you don't want in them.

Or so I think.
 
I just mean is always some huge turn of a story in a series that just makes it vastly different.

Every game before final fantasy VII followed a specific formula of having a epic plot of fantasy setting, Final fantasy IV has paladins, mages, monks, Ninjas, bards, sages, and other FANTASY type things, it might as well be a Dungeons and dragons JRPG. Then final fantasy VII showed up, now is all some edgy science fiction story with multiple confusing plots that requires prequal games, prolouge stories, and movies and other formats of media to fully understand. But the whole game is fun cause of limit breaks, characters, and the huge materia system which throws the job class system out the window in favor of just overpowering the character. Much like Castlevania symphony of the night where the games rpg elements is favored among the traditional idea, due to creating a flexible Difficulty system for more range of players.

While all the games have fun new gameplay they vastly change the theme of the games as if it needed to be overhauled into something that was less fundemental in favor of something more epic, i think they just tried too hard. Even though it sells well and all, i felt they could have taken more time to create a better story or least used the theme of fantasy insteas of going for science fiction or religion and other such realistic elements.
 
To be fair, FF6 was edgy science fiction steam punk. A really good edgy science fiction steam punk that remains my favorite FF to this day though.

New FF7 stuff is simply retcon happy after all the hype and attention FF7 got and still has. They tried hard with some new stuff with the original FF7 they wanted to play with and it turned into a massive success despite being bland in terms of story and characters because gameplay and visuals carried it.
And I certainly agree that having redesigned or redone gameplay can refresh a series for the better and appeal to a broader audience.
But then, why not try the same with story?
Here's what I'm going to argue though, religion was common in the older games, in so much as religion being a form of faith that characters believe in (ie: prophecies). 1 had a prophecy with crystals, 2 had a literal hell, 3 has a prophecy of crystals, 4 has a prophecy of moon shenanigans that would be a whale of a time you'd be over the moon for.
Realistic elements are unavoidable if you look for them because reality is the basis on which a fantasy is built.
What was the mechanical giant in 4 if not science fiction?

On an unrelated note I'm having a lot of fun talking to you about this kinda stuff ^O^ I hope you're enjoying this too~
 
Most japanese games is based on some kind of religion. Every breath of fire games is based on religion, gods, and goddess, controling or having their part play a role in the developement of the current state of affairs in the games situation and story. The very first game for SNES was actually translated by Squaresoft at the time cause capcom did not have experience with tranlations especually with RPG games, which was their first to cash in on the genre, and the GBA port was also done with UBISOFT help.

Most games on Nintendo were censored by nintendo publishing agreements to have as little as religon based things in them as possible. That was only for games outside of japan, Within, every games was religion based somehow even if it couldn't been implied directly. While i am not saying is all bad things, it does make for a touchy subject of contraversy and maybe possible critizism but is all of interesting things for me but most of them seem to be common now, most capcom games always have someone making reference to god, and trying to control the world. Again, common in japanese games. Dr.wily wants world domination, Eggman wants world domination, M.Bison wants world domination, Breath of fire, some god or goddess wants world domination (More like control the world but could be same category) Metal gear solid someone wants world domination, Resident evil, someone wants domination. Is always someone trying to act like a god, and think they are better than someone else cause they believe they found rights to own everything simply cause they worked hard enough to be on top but they aren't and i bet it started with some jealousy.

I'm not saying to not make games based on reality, is impossible, to avoid that a game is somehow relatable to your life. But i mean the title Final fantasy should seem more like a fanatsy not SCI FI, before FFVII there was a huge theme of fantasy in the games, while yes it had religion and also faith and magic and stuff, is mostly what dungeons and dragons was like. Having a team of heroes trying to stop a evil monster from world destruction. Now is all about some person thinking someone has made him a god and is their job to take that responsibility into their own hands and dominate the world.:ninja:
 
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I'm not gonna comment on your first two paragraphs because I have nothing I see a need to add or comment on.

As for the themes of a title called "Final Fantasy" I could point out that none of them are final ;D BUT...
I ask you this, what separates science fiction and fantasy? One is based in plausibility and the other in impossibility or improbability.
FF7 is not a plausibility to the rules and bounds of our world, it is a fantasy world with advanced technological development: IE: TECHNICALLY a fantasy that just ate sci fi elements. So I mean, the contents don't... really betray the title... technically...

Actually, what would you call Chrono Trigger, just for the sake of argument. Is it sci fi? Is it fantasy?
But I feel like I'm stretching things a little too far into the pedantic side of things. I get your points and I think you get mine so fair enough.

1: Was about some person thinking time shenanigans has made him into a god and is their job to take that responsibility into their own hands and dominate the world
2: Was about a person trying to become a god and trying to take over the world,
3: Nopes, actual evil monster world destruction
4: Nopes actual evil monster world destruction that controls people
5: Was about a... tree... guy... who likes turtles... world destruction by turning it into a void. *cough* or something...
6: Kefka... just bloody Kefka. That right there is one epic god complex that let him dominate the world.
*coughs*
 

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