Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[obcd]

Americans will say... It's the law.
Europeans will say... What backdoors we could use is that law having. (at least in my country)
If I buy a usb stick, I have to pay "author rights taxes" on it, but I am not allowed to copy music to it?
Latest BMW car's have an option to rip the inserted cd onto the car harddisk... Is that an illegal standard option?
If I buy an mp3 player, should I buy all my music for it online, or can I use the music from my existing cd collection?
If I can click a favorite link in my internet browser that plays a youtube video with a song, what's the difference If I capture it's sound
and play that mp3 instead?
GBA games can be played on the first generation wii's, so it's not illegal to play GBA games on a wii.
If it comes to a lawsuit, the one that has the most expensive lawyers will likely win it.
The first I learned about digital media is to always take backups in case something goes wrong.
Only with my games and music I am not allowed to?
Some years ago, software companies even advised to take a backup of your media with their program on it before you proceeded using it..
So, if Devolution is violating wathever law, so is BMW and everyone using MP3 MP4 and MP5 players....
You shouldn't watch a movie on your android phone. You should carry a portable dvd player with you.

No need to reply on this. It's just a bunch of random thoughts.

 

[tbgtbg]

I guess you didn't read the section I actually linked to:

Here's the law

§117. Limitation on exclusive rights: computer programs
(a)
Making of additional copy or adaptation by owner of copy. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106 [17 USC 106], it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1)
that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2)
that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

Making a new copy of a GC disc is an essential step in the utilization of the game in conjunction with a Wii+USB drive, so should not be illegal. Note the "or" in there, the copy you need to run Devolution does not have to meet the archival part your link was citing because it already meets the requirement of the previous section.

 

[Rydian]

One place....heh, yeah right.

Look at the number of pages here...

 

[the_randomizer]

Look at the number of pages here...

Well, people aren't going to just bitch here, they're going to bitch everywhere every time. There's no stopping people from doing it. As for legality issues, I couldn't give a tin s**t about it. Why? Regardless of what the law says, I'm going to do whatever the hell I want with what I buy. Why should I have to repurchase a DVD when my first copy is rendered unusable? Why should I repurchase MP3s when a hard drive crashes? And why should the government tell me what to do with my games? They do it for the big corporations and never for the consumer, plain and simple. You know what I say to those who wrote and try to enforce such draconian laws for backing up/archiving legally obtained media? "Sod off and die". That's what I say to the DMCA jerks. What I do with my purchased goods is my business and no one else's.

As much as I love the United States ( the people), I despise the direction the government is headed trying to control every aspect of our lives, catering to the greed of large corporations (RIAA, MPAA, etc). It sickens me to know end, so what do I do? Make backups of my games like crazy and play them on so-called "unauthorized" devices and emulators. Screw off government, you suck balls. I do what I want, not what those losers want.

My products obtained legally, my right to do what I please regardless of what those whining wankers in Congress say. Big corporations? HA! Too bad for them.

 

[Rydian]

But this thread is containing most of the talk. We're not seeing a bunch of other threads popping up anymore.

 

[the_randomizer]

But this thread is containing most of the talk. We're not seeing a bunch of other threads popping up anymore.

Well that's true (aside from the Wii U-hatemongers out there).

 

[Wanderlei777]

I wish the guys who started the Wii scene had the balls to put in disc verification like tueidj did with Devolution.

I respect his principles and hopefully he will be a example to people who release things in the future.

 

[Mojoaosm]

So just out of curiosity what are the chances of someone making a program similar to Devolution just minus the AP? I mean...there's got to be some other genius out there who enjoys Wii modding. Plust Devolution was made by just one guy.

By the way I've been experimenting with the .DVV files through a hex editor and discovered some stuff (pretty much just common sense). The first lines of hex consist of the game ID, after that there is some blank space followed by "Âze". That's about as far as I've gotten... Everything after that has no discernible pattern. I do know that it creates a different .DVV file depending on your HDD/SD and your Wii. As far as I can tell there's no timestamp because I can make backups of the .DVV files and when I paste them back onto my HDD they still work. Maybe I'll fiddle around with UNEEK and see if I can figure his encryption out. I have to solute this guy, as he did a good job making this unhackable. I think it may have already been hacked if it weren't for DIOS MIOS being released. So many people are content with DIOS MIOS that they don't feel the need to bother with Devolution. If tueidj can get Devolution working on the Wii U the desire to hack it will sky rocket. Just think...The Wii U could be a universal Nintendo system...play any Nintendo rom from any Nintendo system. That would be sweet.

Oh by the way, even though I want to hack the hell out of Devolution, I still have loads of respect for tueidj. The guy has the balls to stand up for what he believes. He gave up the fame of making what could have been the most popular GameCube backup loader by taking extra measures to make sure he didn't break his moral code. Now, even though I'm determined to crack this I have to say...cheers tueidj.

 

[Slimmmmmm]

I've been AWOL in a way for about 18 months but every now and then I pop in to see if tueidj's protections will last longer than Nintendo's and well...

He has given many hints, tips and tricks as to how a lot of his ideas work but said a long time ago that it would be easier to make something from the start. I've asked him for tips on coding in the past and he has always given me MORE than I needed. (thanks)

I think a lot of people reading want devo without AP ?

I posted asking if nandemu (we called it savegamethingymajigy back then) could work a LONG, LONG time ago on this site btw and was told by a lot of top devs it could never work. Most of them off the boards not wanting to post, so I talked a lot in irc, needing to keep the convo private with a few because they didn't want to be held to what they thought. tueidj was one that said it was possible and wanin was the first person to listen that it wasn't impossible. I kept on, and on and on and helped in anyway I could (which was == 0)

I had to help and help and help (so 0x0x0) .

You could try this approach if you find an interested dev with time to spare?
cIOS for a long time has had code that replaces a path, but a lot of work would need done.

If you talk about hacking this app to remove AP, a lot of devs will say very hard, but if you ask about making your own many will say it is doable. So maybe doable sounds quicker?

I think people who really want this without AP need to take time to get started and just try to make something they can use.
A cIOS is a way to go about this and any with nandemu functions can be adapted. A lot, lot more code to get something like Devo, but you don't need all the features and quality straight outta the box.
Other approaches could be looking at the neogamma mod that swapped files for NSMB coded by some Chinese guy (sorry your nick slips my old mind). Another way is sneek/neek/neek2o/ etc that can use extracted discs.

So imho anyone that wants devo-AP would at least start a topic asking for help, get some base code and start trying. They would keep their topic alive at all times without 1 person bumping it or any other rules breakers. They would layout a plan... do A, do B , do C. If they don't know how to do A,B or C they can get help with that most likely by asking people in a polite manner in irc that could give hints and tips. They won't hold your hand, you will need to learn something...but devided amongst your whole "team". If anyone goes about something like this then that would get attention, they just need to KEEP GOING !

Sorry for the long crap no one will read.

As for the topic title I believe tueidj said to me it was a reward to those that buy games (if I agree or not is not important, it's his app). I'm grateful for all free stuff and this is free, I like that

 

[Rydian]

Holy crap slim posted something coherent and encouraging.

Did somebody put LSD in my water bowl?

(We miss you slim.)

 

[Mojoaosm]

I completely agree with Slim. So far I've been trying to figure out a way to get Devolution to generate fake .dvv files. I have made some progress, and I'm already farther than I thought I would get, but creating a whole new program from scratch would probably be a lot easier. I say that anyone interested in a project like this should join in. I'm going to look at some source code from other apps for inspiration and so that I can get a better grasp of how the Wii works (because currently I'm not very knowledgeable about this subject). Thanks for the tip Slim.

 

[PsyBlade]

I can create you a tool that writes whatever content you want to whatever file you like.
Thats done easily.
The hard part is figuring out what to write. And I don't think you'r close unfortunatly.

When it das released I too played around a bit with the files,just for fun.
Afaik the files fs metadata DOES play a role. At least the cluster.
And one of the times iirc, can't remember which one.

 

[Mojoaosm]

Are you talking about the .dvv files? Yes I'm not close at all to figuring them out at all. I made some progress, but very little. Tueidj did a great job making Devo uncrackable. I honestly think we're better off starting from scratch. Anyone who is interested (especially people with experience with coding) should join in. I believe that if we can get a decent group together we can at least make a simple Gamecube loader. In all honesty I'm pretty sure the only way to get a Devo-like program without AP would be to create ourselves. I can guarantee all of you that Tueidj will NEVER release the source, and the chances of someone cracking his program are very slim. Our only chances would be to take action and get started on our own project. Like Slim said, it's definitely doable. We just need to know where to start.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Ain't happening dude.

 

[Mojoaosm]

Why do you say that?

 

[VashTS]

because most of us know nothing of coding an app like this.

it has been cracked, just not released, i believe it was megazig who patched it. i would look for what the app does when it says "OK this checks out" and patch that in memory. i don't have a gecko so i can't even begin to look at this, nor will i ever boot devo on any of my wiis. EVER.

 

[Slimmmmmm]

My previous post was a mistake, I was also reading about Riivolution in another tab. If you read it back it is really obvious. Nandemu ? Why would I mention that for example.

It proves I'm an idiot and if you read it and never noticed then you don't read enough.
Some of the logic can be used though.

People wanting to crack this to remove AP, good luck. Enough said.

People wanting the AP removed to get the benefits of this app well, long story short...GET STARTED YESTERDAY.

As for coding your own app from scratch...why ? DIOSMIOS could be improved or changed maybe.
If Devolution offers something over DiosMios then would the time efficient strategy not been to try and improve or fix (however you word it) an already amazing app made by a pure legend? (crediar)

I'm not up on all the features of each as I have a WODE for GC games.

I do know that getting together to fix something with an already large userbase and 99% of the code has advantages over "starting from scratch"

If you read my previous post, imho Riivolution from scratch seems time efficient, anyone that can setup devkit and copy paste and change existing code(neogamma mod for example) has a chance of making something that can do a file swap. Enough monkeys and ocarina codes could get a result in theory. So in my own personal opinion Riivolution is best handled making a new app.

Devolution... there are not enough monkeys and it wouldn't be an ocarina code. In my opinion if you want the features help improve DiosMios. Only take the huge amount of time of removing the AP of Devolution if you are doing it for that reason alone.

 

[SifJar]

DM is a MIOS based hack, and as such, runs in GC mode. Devolution runs in Wii mode. They may achieve similar purposes (to an extent), but they are very, very different programs. DM can't be "improved" to a point where it is level with Devolution; it's just completely different. DM can't have some features existing in (or planned for) Devolution. For example, I don't believe audio streaming can be implemented in DM, because of a lack of resources. There are also reports of some games having smoother frame rates etc. in Devolution, due to them being run with additional processing power. In addition, it's possible (and indeed has been demonstrated on video) that Devolution could work on the WiiU; DM is quite unlikely to work there I believe.

Of course, for warez kiddies who just want to play their pirated GC games, DM does the job fine. But for the best GC experience possible on the Wii, it's always going to be Devolution (and I include official GC compatibility in that).

As for Riivolution; yeah, it's possible other people could implement a similar system. Ocarina codes to do a similar thing have existed far longer than Riivolution has, but they have been very limited to what files can be replaced and what games they are available for (Brawl and...maybe nothing else?). The neogamma mod was also game specific, and very limited in the file replacements possible.

But there aren't all that many "killer" Riivolution patches AFAIK. A few custom NSMB levels, some Brawl texture hacks, some fan translations, not a huge amount else. Plus it wouldn't be hard for pirates (or legit backup users) to apply the patches to their ISOs. So there's no real point in anyone bothering to put in the effort.

 

[JoostinOnline]

But there aren't all that many "killer" Riivolution patches AFAIK. A few custom NSMB levels, some Brawl texture hacks, some fan translations, not a huge amount else. Plus it wouldn't be hard for pirates (or legit backup users) to apply the patches to their ISOs. So there's no real point in anyone bothering to put in the effort.

I think it's pretty popular for custom tracks on MKWii.

 

[sabfrompc]

The problem with .dvv files is their verification. He stores it in the NAND and it is a pain in the arse to track down.