[POLL] U.S. Presidential Election 2016

[Lacius]

On a related note, for those who don't know, the president doesn't do anything with the passing of the national budget anyway, except ask congress to pwetty pwetty pwease add his/her suggestions.

He or she signs it.

 

[RevPokemon]

The major criticisms of Stein's college debt plan and Johnson's taxation plan and climate change plan really are substantial. It's not cherry-picking, and it was a good piece.

Yes but at the same time if we were to be serious then we would have to consider Clinton's policies (her truly awful foreign interventionalist views) which also are a major concern. Let's not act like there are no substantial reason not to vote Clinton.

 

[Lacius]

Yes but at the same time if we were to be serious then we would have to consider Clinton's policies (her truly awful foreign interventionalist views) which also are a major concern. Let's not act like there are no substantial reason not to vote Clinton.

Admittedly, Clinton is more interventionist than I would like. It's a legitimate criticism. It is, however, not disqualifying nor a demonstration of a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work, like the aforementioned criticisms of Johnson and Stein.

 

[RevPokemon]

Admittedly, Clinton is more interventionist than I would like. It's a legitimate criticism. It is, however, not disqualifying nor a demonstration of a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work, like the aforementioned criticisms of Johnson and Stein.

Considering that her support of those interventions seem to demonstrate a lack of knowledge regarding blowback, however that point can be moot since when we consider what is a disqualifing position than that is subjective to each voter. Her hawkish views are disqualifying for many people (myself included) and are a legitimate reason not to vote for her.

In terms of the fundamental understanding than that to could be subjective since it depends on opinion. Consumption taxes are not a fringe idea and they have numerous supporters but likewise the left dislikes them. Again it is subjective. I could claim that Clinton's tax ideas show a lack of undersfanding aswell but it is subjective.

Either way Clinton has posistions and policy proposals which can disqualify her from receiving your vote depending on your own views and opinions.

 

[Lacius]

Considering that her support of those interventions seem to demonstrate a lack of knowledge regarding blowback, however that point can be moot since when we consider what is a disqualifing position than that is subjective to each voter. Her hawkish views are disqualifying for many people (myself included) and are a legitimate reason not to vote for her.

Coherent arguments can be made for some of the interventions she supports, but I'd have to know what you're referring to in the first place. Favoring some interventions doesn't mean one isn't aware of blowback. You can't take a complicated issue such as this and claim it's as simple as the whoppers Stein and Johnson have proposed with obvious and serious flaws.

I'm not saying a person can't be critical of these or any other position, and I'm not saying they can't be disqualifying for some voters. But they demonstrate a difference in opinion, not a fundamental misunderstanding, and that's not hyperbole.

In terms of the fundamental understanding than that to could be subjective since it depends on opinion. Consumption taxes are not a fringe idea and they have numerous supporters but likewise the left dislikes them. Again it is subjective.

Stein is objectively wrong about how quantitative easing works. Johnson is objectively wrong that consumption taxes won't hurt the poor and benefit the rich, and he's objectively wrong that it won't reduce revenue. Worse yet, neither Stein nor Johnson can offer a defense against these criticisms.

I could claim that Clinton's tax ideas show a lack of undersfanding aswell but it is subjective.

Could you be more specific? It might be less subjective than you think, depending on your criticism.

Either way Clinton has posistions and policy proposals which can disqualify her from receiving your vote depending on your own views and opinions.

Yes, but that's not what I'm talking about. If this were what I was talking about, then I would drop the previous topic and could argue that some people are just objectively wrong, and the people who hold these subjective views and opinions are as flawed in their reasoning as their candidates are.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking up Evan McMullin as a Trump alternative; ya'll should probably look into him, especially if you're a conservative disgusted by Donald and his awful rhetoric

 

[Lacius]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking up Evan McMullin as a Trump alternative; ya'll should probably look into him, especially if you're a conservative disgusted by Donald and his awful rhetoric

The problem with your reasoning is that Republican Party voters generally like Donald Trump and his rhetoric.

 

[RevPokemon]

The problem with your reasoning is that Republican Party voters generally like Donald Trump and his rhetoric.

Ultimately his policy is most inline with the GOP's than all the other canidates including Trump and Johnson. Plus alot of the GOP hates trump but just support him since he is the lesser evil.

Johnson is objectively wrong that consumption taxes won't hurt the poor and benefit the rich, and he's objectively wrong that it won't reduce revenue. Worse yet, neither Stein nor Johnson can offer a defense against these criticisms.

I do not want to get into a econimics fight but consumption tax is not objectively wrong and is favored by many economists. Although since our views of economics are different we will not agree on this

 

[Lacius]

Ultimately his policy is most inline with the GOP's than all the other canidates including Trump and Johnson. Plus alot of the GOP hates trump but just support him since he is the lesser evil.

This idea that, among self-identified Republican Party voters, Donald Trump is disliked and merely the lesser of two evils is garbage. He has nearly 81-84% support from Republican voters, which is comparable to other election years. Do not think that because some GOP leaders are hesitant to support Trump and his antics, the actual Republican voters have any standards, because they don't. Donald Trump is the Republican Party. What he says is what they largely think.

Alternatives such as McMullin appeal to a minority of Republican voters when contrasted with Donald Trump.

 

[RevPokemon]

his idea that, among self-identified Republican Party voters, Donald Trump is disliked

Considering about 1/2 of Gop voters disliked Trump in Jun and as of now is only going up now.

merely the lesser of two evils

Which is why many Republicans vote for him.

He has nearly 81-84% support from Republican voters, which is comparable to other election year

For what it is worth if that holds true and turns to support on Voting day than that would twice the amount of cross voting Republicans that in 08 after Bush when the canidate was a man who many of the conservative branch hated.

Donald Trump is the Republican Party. What he says is what they largely think.

Not including his past views on issues, Trump has taken many positions that are outside the conservative consensus.

 

[Deleted User]

 

[RevPokemon]

This was already posted

 

[Deleted User]

This was already posted

Oh whoops. Sorry about that

 

[ComeTurismO]

Melania did a horrible job defending her husband and herself as a potential first-lady on CNN's debate today. She believes that she will battle cyber-bullying on social media, and thinks it is wrong. Why isn't she taking action when Trump is doing that same exact thing on Twitter and Facebook?

One reasonable discussion, unrelated to above (kinda):

How do you think and what do you think Bill will do as a 'first-gentleman/man/dude/guy' if Hillary is elected?

 

[Joe88]

a small update, Ecuador cut off his internet access on satuday right after clinton's goldman sachs paid speeches were released
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/788099178832420865
Unfortunately for them that wont stop the leaks just by cutting off julian, a bot was created to automatically release the emails every single day
he set up many backup plans in the event something happened to him weather he was imprisoned or even if his death might occur, a decryption key would be released to unlock previously uploaded encrypted files
ecudador replied back they would continue to house and protect assange https://twitter.com/CancilleriaEc/status/788161697106329604


and with that I present a few highlights of next batch of 800 leaked emails

(Chelsea Clinton concerned about security issues, spying, and surveillance between employees, one employee saw another going through someone's blackberry, and even loading spyware on computers)
https://www.wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12401

(politico chief correspondent sending unreleased stories to the clinton campaign to allow them to change it if they want before posting, he even called him self a hack for doing it)
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12681


and a nice undercover investigation video on DNC and clinton campaign corruption, a few smaller msm outlets are reporting on the video so far



part 2 is going to be released tomorrow and he declared far worse than this one

 

[RevPokemon]

Why isn't she taking action when Trump is doing that same exact thing on Twitter and Facebook?

Because without Twitter, Trump is another Steve Forbes and probably wouldn't have won.

How do you think and what do you think Bill will do as a 'first-gentleman/man/dude/guy' if Hillary is elected

I think he will be pretty active in helping her plans and will have a large roll

 

[Haloman800]

#HillaryForPrison
#CantStumpTheTrump

Spoiler

 

[Viri]

a small update, Ecuador cut off his internet access on satuday right after clinton's goldman sachs paid speeches were released
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/788099178832420865
Unfortunately for them that wont stop the leaks just by cutting off julian, a bot was created to automatically release the emails every single day
he set up many backup plans in the event something happened to him weather he was imprisoned or even if his death might occur, a decryption key would be released to unlock previously uploaded encrypted files
ecudador replied back they would continue to house and protect assange https://twitter.com/CancilleriaEc/status/788161697106329604


and with that I present a few highlights of next batch of 800 leaked emails

(Chelsea Clinton concerned about security issues, spying, and surveillance between employees, one employee saw another going through someone's blackberry, and even loading spyware on computers)
https://www.wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12401

(politico chief correspondent sending unreleased stories to the clinton campaign to allow them to change it if they want before posting, he even called him self a hack for doing it)
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12681


and a nice undercover investigation video on DNC corruption, a few smaller msm outlets are reporting on the video



part 2 is going to be released tomorrow and he declared far worse than this one

Damage control! https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/788199962832175104

Also, a reminder, which I kinda knew when it happened earlier this year.

Spoiler

Spoiler

They're such nice peoples

Hillary would never pay people to protest and incite violence at Trump rallies, right?
https://beta.fec.gov/data/disbursem...IGUEZ&min_date=01/01/2015&max_date=12/31/2016

 

[Nightwish]

For anyone considering voting third party:

Oh noes, Jill Stein speech panders to voters! How terrible!
As to the college debt, it's better crap than to keep enriching capitalists to make education worse, which is what everyone else wants to do, even if she gets some names wrong - the president wouldn't write the economical plan himself.

 

[Viri]

Hah, the lobbyist must be scared of that, and begging congress already to not pass it

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trumps-five-point-plan-for-ethics-reform