Hardware Nvidia "Custom" Tegra Chip

[Axido]

Even though it's supposed to be a custom design, I really don't expect THAT much on the CPU side. Truthfully, I 'want' to believe that they are at least getting something made using Pascal. It's so much more powerful, and so much more power efficient, that I'd be hard pressed to think that this wouldn't be the time that nVidia would drop a new Tegra design using Pascal architecture (the one they've been calling Parker). Even if Nintendo needs to use a slightly cut down version of the chip, I still think (hope) that's what will end up happening.

You don't need THAT much on the CPU side rather than on the GPU side, actually. A CPU only needs to maintain a stable framerate (something above 60fps would be nice in this case) before beginning to bottleneck. If you achieve this, you can scale it with whatever the GPU is capable of. Let's say we got an old CPU that won't deliver more than 80fps at any given resolution. Pair it with a GTX 1080 and you got yourself 4K @ stable 60fps.
That's pretty much how it works.

 

[vincentx77]

You don't need THAT much on the CPU side rather than on the GPU side, actually. A CPU only needs to maintain a stable framerate (something above 60fps would be nice in this case) before beginning to bottleneck. If you achieve this, you can scale it with whatever the GPU is capable of. Let's say we got an old CPU that won't deliver more than 80fps at any given resolution. Pair it with a GTX 1080 and you got yourself 4K @ stable 60fps.
That's pretty much how it works.

That's how it works if your game can run on a potato. So many games are experiencing frame rate drops in the current gen because of the cpu (Witcher 3 anyone?). And while I agree that for consoles the CPU isn't the primary focus, the Tegra X1 wasn't as powerful as the iPhone 7. I'm not entirely sure if it's as powerful as the 6s. There's no question that it isn't as powerful as the iPad Pro.

How big of a deal this will be remains to be seen. If this console ends up being a replacement to the aging 3DS (and the dying Vita), it likely won't matter THAT much. It'll just have the ability to hook up to a tv screen and hopefully play it's entirely library properly (looking at you PS TV). That in and of itself will be awesome. As the primary console for the living room, however, it's going to be a really hard sell, at least imo.

I'm probably going to get one because I'm a portable console whore. But that's all this is to me. A really nice portable from Nintendo.

 

[Jayro]

My stepdad works for Nvidia Labs here in Oregon, and says it's a modified Tegra X2 architecture. So there you go, solid confirmation from close-to-source reliability.

 

[rad3ds]

My uncle works for nintendo and he says its an underclocked Tegra 3 because Nintendo marketing is following up on the "What the wii U should have been" talk by using technology only from 2011 or earlier .

 

[osaka35]

My stepdad works for Nvidia Labs here in Oregon, and says it's a modified Tegra X2 architecture. So there you go, solid confirmation from close-to-source reliability.

I want to believe you because I want it to be true. My bias confirms it. It's true!

 

[Yil]

According to the Japanese guy's statement the console is actually on par with Xbox on

My stepdad works for Nvidia Labs here in Oregon, and says it's a modified Tegra X2 architecture. So there you go, solid confirmation from close-to-source reliability.

I don't if it's possible but can you ask him how big is the gpu part?

 

[Luckkill4u]

For speculation purposes only. If the Switch uses a Tegra X2 chip they can really optimize how efficiently each game runs. Its multiprocessor is quite different using Big + Super cores. The 4 "big cores" (cortex A57) run most of the OS, apps and small games. Where as the 2 "super cores" (Denver 2) run the high powered games. Very similar as the LITTLE + big technology Samsung has been doing on the Exynos SoC's to save battery power. The one thing I was worried about was the RAM in the X1 speculation of the Switch's hardware. It was only 64bit LPDDR4 that ran at 25GB/s but the X2 speculation would be twice as fast with 128bit LPDDR4 at 50GB/s. Technically speaking if the Switch is using a modified X2 as a SoC you could see 1.0 Tflops at FP32 or 1.5Tflops at FP16. Which is still behind the original Xbox One and PlayStation 4 but not too far behind. Now lets say you want to compare games such as Battlefield 1 and that's a game that's very well optimized on the XBOne and PS4 but both can barely play it at its full potential. The Switch probably couldn't play it at all and if it could the developers would probably just remove features the SoC couldn't handle just like what developers did to the Wii version of games. Now let's say that Naughty Dog just jumped ship and moved to Nintendo (Never going to happen but work with me here) and decide to re-make (develop from scratch) Last of Us for the Nintendo Switch. I'm talking like a 1:1 re-make designed to make visuals 100% the same as the PS4 version. I'm sure that It would look the same as on the Switch! Why?
Because the developers took the time to design the game for the Switch using all the resources Nintendo and nVidia can give. Remember how good Xenoblade Chronicles looked on the Wii? I and probably many others didn't think it was possible but It was possible because the developers took the time to know the Wii and develop specifically for it.

Now here is the freaky part... nVidia has been working on combining 2 Tegra X2 (Also X1) called "Parker PX(PX2, PX3)" mostly designed towards self driving vehicles. If Nintendo utilized that technology into the Switch's dock, say Tegra X2 in the dock with 6 cores and Maxwell/Pascal based GPU, and in the console another Tegra X2 with 6 cores and GPU clocked/volted for mobility. With both X2's combined you can get over 2.0+ Tflops of combined power when docked surpassing a nVidia GTX 1050ti. That would mean more power than the Xbox One Slim and maybe the PS4 Pro. It's the way I hope Nintendo chooses to go because then they could have more than one model to choose from. The base model with the Switch and basic dock @ ~$400 or the advanced model with the Switch and a powerful dock for 4k gaming with AAA 3rd party titles to compete with other home consoles and PC's.

 

[Yil]

For speculation purposes only. If the Switch uses a Tegra X2 chip they can really optimize how efficiently each game runs. Its multiprocessor is quite different using Big + Super cores. The 4 "big cores" (cortex A57) run most of the OS, apps and small games. Where as the 2 "super cores" (Denver 2) run the high powered games. Very similar as the LITTLE + big technology Samsung has been doing on the Exynos SoC's to save battery power. The one thing I was worried about was the RAM in the X1 speculation of the Switch's hardware. It was only 64bit LPDDR4 that ran at 25GB/s but the X2 speculation would be twice as fast with 128bit LPDDR4 at 50GB/s. Technically speaking if the Switch is using a modified X2 as a SoC you could see 1.0 Tflops at FP32 or 1.5Tflops at FP16. Which is still behind the original Xbox One and PlayStation 4 but not too far behind. Now lets say you want to compare games such as Battlefield 1 and that's a game that's very well optimized on the XBOne and PS4 but both can barely play it at its full potential. The Switch probably couldn't play it at all and if it could the developers would probably just remove features the SoC couldn't handle just like what developers did to the Wii version of games. Now let's say that Naughty Dog just jumped ship and moved to Nintendo (Never going to happen but work with me here) and decide to re-make (develop from scratch) Last of Us for the Nintendo Switch. I'm talking like a 1:1 re-make designed to make visuals 100% the same as the PS4 version. I'm sure that It would look the same as on the Switch! Why?
Because the developers took the time to design the game for the Switch using all the resources Nintendo and nVidia can give. Remember how good Xenoblade Chronicles looked on the Wii? I and probably many others didn't think it was possible but It was possible because the developers took the time to know the Wii and develop specifically for it.

Now here is the freaky part... nVidia has been working on combining 2 Tegra X2 (Also X1) called "Parker PX(PX2, PX3)" mostly designed towards self driving vehicles. If Nintendo utilized that technology into the Switch's dock, say Tegra X2 in the dock with 6 cores and Maxwell/Pascal based GPU, and in the console another Tegra X2 with 6 cores and GPU clocked/volted for mobility. With both X2's combined you can get over 2.0+ Tflops of combined power when docked surpassing a nVidia GTX 1050ti. That would mean more power than the Xbox One Slim and maybe the PS4 Pro. It's the way I hope Nintendo chooses to go because then they could have more than one model to choose from. The base model with the Switch and basic dock @ ~$400 or the advanced model with the Switch and a powerful dock for 4k gaming with AAA 3rd party titles to compete with other home consoles and PC's.

First if there is 1.0tflops at fp32 there will be 2.0 at fp16 and 0.5 at fp64 due to Pascal's design. This already suggest a gpu bigger than tegra x2. Second some pc gamers still play those games with lower end apu, and managing them at a low setting even on 1080p is not that impossible. Third you are implying switch is nearly as powerful as the ps4, which is not possible when mobile. AMD specifically state that this is possible only when hitting the 35w mark. You are also implying Denver 2 + a57 is not big.LITTLE core but then said it is.
PX2 also uses two gp106 (with all functions present, such as amd like execution), but that requires someone much more capable than your standard dev. Majority of dev cannot even cope with i7's 8 thread and are you seriously expecting them to cope with dual chip setup, which is much worse than egpu? And Nintendo need at least 75% the power to go toe to toe against PS4 Pro. Also Xenoblade looks good cause Nintendo made some choices in format and software to cope with wii's lesser power, and the design choice in general will give them a win.
And are you trying to suggest a full $400 bundle for a potentially slower unit?

 

[mightymuffy]

First if there is 1.0tflops at fp32 there will be 2.0 at fp16 and 0.5 at fp64 due to Pascal's design. This already suggest a gpu bigger than tegra x2. Second some pc gamers still play those games with lower end apu, and managing them at a low setting even on 1080p is not that impossible. Third you are implying switch is nearly as powerful as the ps4, which is not possible when mobile. AMD specifically state that this is possible only when hitting the 35w mark. You are also implying Denver 2 + a57 is not big.LITTLE core but then said it is.
PX2 also uses two gp106 (with all functions present, such as amd like execution), but that requires someone much more capable than your standard dev. Majority of dev cannot even cope with i7's 8 thread and are you seriously expecting them to cope with dual chip setup, which is much worse than egpu? And Nintendo need at least 75% the power to go toe to toe against PS4 Pro. Also Xenoblade looks good cause Nintendo made some choices in format and software to cope with wii's lesser power, and the design choice in general will give them a win.
And are you trying to suggest a full $400 bundle for a potentially slower unit?

For speculation purposes only.

It's the first sentence in his post son.......
Also read up on the x2 - those tflops figures are theoretically possible.
Also I don't see any part of his post claiming it to be up there with a PS4, cept for the fairytale docking bit at the end (which would be nice but isn't gonna happen ever! Wishful thinking though!). His post states it'll possibly nest somewhere in between Wii U and PS4, which is quite accurate, were it not for the likelihood of a scaled down setup to save battery life, etc....
Also... yeah, again, for speculation purposes only.....

 

[KingVamp]

I can see a custom chip hitting around 1.0 Tflops at FP32, but it isn't hitting Ps4, let alone surpassing the Ps4 Pro even if you double it. This "powerful dock" combo would be way too expensive. Most people would just buy the regular Switch and use the rest of the money on something else.

Games and power would only have to be scaled down when it is off the dock or external power supply.

 

[Luckkill4u]

First if there is 1.0tflops at fp32 there will be 2.0 at fp16 and 0.5 at fp64 due to Pascal's design. This already suggest a gpu bigger than tegra x2. Second some pc gamers still play those games with lower end apu, and managing them at a low setting even on 1080p is not that impossible. Third you are implying switch is nearly as powerful as the ps4, which is not possible when mobile. AMD specifically state that this is possible only when hitting the 35w mark. You are also implying Denver 2 + a57 is not big.LITTLE core but then said it is.
PX2 also uses two gp106 (with all functions present, such as amd like execution), but that requires someone much more capable than your standard dev. Majority of dev cannot even cope with i7's 8 thread and are you seriously expecting them to cope with dual chip setup, which is much worse than egpu? And Nintendo need at least 75% the power to go toe to toe against PS4 Pro. Also Xenoblade looks good cause Nintendo made some choices in format and software to cope with wii's lesser power, and the design choice in general will give them a win.
And are you trying to suggest a full $400 bundle for a potentially slower unit?

Did you read my post at all?... nVidia did state 1tflops at fp32 and 1.5tflops at fp16 for the Tegra X2 I can get sources when I'm home. We know NOTHING on the customizations on the Tegra X2 chip so I didn't even bring it up simply because we know nothing, you can't speculate on that. The Tegra X2 uses big+Super core technology. It's different from big+little technology because there is no little cores for efficiency. As per the PX series or egpu I was just bringing it up because it's something nVidia has been working on. It's still a possibility that we could see something SIMILAR to that in the switch's final hardware. The possibilities are endless and this is completely a speculation but I hope the Nintendo Switch is much more powerful than a Tegra X2. I'm hoping combining multiple SoCs with nVidia's special new low level api they have been working on for Nintendo will give the Nintendo Switch the ability to compete against other current Gen consoles.
Edit: I was wrong Tegra X2 is 0.75 Tflops at fp32, still 1.5 Tflops at fp16 https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/08/22/parker-for-self-driving-cars/

 

[Yil]

Did you read my post at all?... nVidia did state 1tflops at fp32 and 1.5tflops at fp16 for the Tegra X2 I can get sources when I'm home. We know NOTHING on the customizations on the Tegra X2 chip so I didn't even bring it up simply because we know nothing, you can't speculate on that. The Tegra X2 uses big+Super core technology. It's different from big+little technology because there is no little cores for efficiency. As per the PX series or egpu I was just bringing it up because it's something nVidia has been working on. It's still a possibility that we could see something SIMILAR to that in the switch's final hardware. The possibilities are endless and this is completely a speculation but I hope the Nintendo Switch is much more powerful than a Tegra X2. I'm hoping combining multiple SoCs with nVidia's special new low level api they have been working on for Nintendo will give the Nintendo Switch the ability to compete against other current Gen consoles.
Edit: I was wrong Tegra X2 is 0.75 Tflops at fp32, still 1.5 Tflops at fp16 https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/08/22/parker-for-self-driving-cars/

I think that Japanese Journalist said over 1tf fp32, which suggest at least 512 shader cores.

 

[KingVamp]

I think that Japanese Journalist said over 1tf fp32, which suggest at least 512 shader cores.

I seen people say that he could be mistaken. I believe we will at least get 0.75 TFLOPS, but I also believe they could be going for around 1ft too. At least when docked.

 

[raulpica]

It's a custom Tegra X2. What's custom, will some of you ask? It's simple. They dropped the Denver2 cores. Sounds crazy to do it since they're extremely powerful cores, but I suppose they wanted to have a quad-core system instead of a big.LITTLE one. Makes sense if you need to think of battery life.

Also, please DON'T look at the PX2. That's got a completely different thermal envelope and it's crazy powerful compared to a standard X2.

PS4 Pro is way more powerful than a Switch, but as long as Nintendo has got the baseline right (around the PS4/One in term of TFLOPs), they should receive plenty of multiplatform ports which will let the Switch thrive.

Obviously, Nintendo's entire strategy is based on hoping that Scorpio/PS4 Pro won't surpass in terms of userbase their previous incarnations, otherwise they'll be outpaced yet once again with very predictable results (WiiU 2 anyone?).

 

[Yil]

I seen people say that he could be mistaken. I believe we will at least get 0.75 TFLOPS, but I also believe they could be going for around 1ft too. At least when docked.

Not possible with tegra x2. Remember the peak clock is 1.5GHz.

It's a custom Tegra X2. What's custom, will some of you ask? It's simple. They dropped the Denver2 cores. Sounds crazy to do it since they're extremely powerful cores, but I suppose they wanted to have a quad-core system instead of a big.LITTLE one. Makes sense if you need to think of battery life.

Also, please DON'T look at the PX2. That's got a completely different thermal envelope and it's crazy powerful compared to a standard X2.

PS4 Pro is way more powerful than a Switch, but as long as Nintendo has got the baseline right (around the PS4/One in term of TFLOPs), they should receive plenty of multiplatform ports which will let the Switch thrive.

Obviously, Nintendo's entire strategy is based on hoping that Scorpio/PS4 Pro won't surpass in terms of userbase their previous incarnations, otherwise they'll be outpaced yet once again with very predictable results (WiiU 2 anyone?).

The cores can be completely different or even a35/ a53/ a72/ a73 (which are all much better than a57 for battery life purpose, especially a73), along with a custom gpu that is bigger than expected (somehow I think this will be System-In-a-Package rather than System-On-a-Chip).
But PX2 does have a single chip setup with no dgpu and a custom 80w gpu for tesla.
Maybe they will use a different strategy for the switch, more on the lightweight.

 

[KingVamp]

It's a custom Tegra X2. What's custom, will some of you ask? It's simple. They dropped the Denver2 cores. Sounds crazy to do it since they're extremely powerful cores, but I suppose they wanted to have a quad-core system instead of a big.LITTLE one. Makes sense if you need to think of battery life.

Also, please DON'T look at the PX2. That's got a completely different thermal envelope and it's crazy powerful compared to a standard X2.

PS4 Pro is way more powerful than a Switch, but as long as Nintendo has got the baseline right (around the PS4/One in term of TFLOPs), they should receive plenty of multiplatform ports which will let the Switch thrive.

Obviously, Nintendo's entire strategy is based on hoping that Scorpio/PS4 Pro won't surpass in terms of userbase their previous incarnations, otherwise they'll be outpaced yet once again with very predictable results (WiiU 2 anyone?).

I also believe they would just change the chips, if the plan to get rid of the Denver cores. Not sure if battery life is excuse since they don't have to run it at full power while it is portable.

Even if the userbase surpasses the original consoles they will still be hold back by them. Unless they are willing to tell the old userbase they must upgrade. I doubt it will surpass them though, at least not anytime soon. Not to mention, even tho the portable userbase weakened, it still bigger than the console userbase. So, I'm sure it will get 3rd party one way or another.