Hardware New Faster Lighter 3DS Console Announced

[Foxi4]

*Snip!*

I wasn't arguing with you, I was providing the real-life numbers, or rather as faithful approximations as I could find/calculate for the sake of argument clarity.

I didn't count the vector co-processors in the CPU's GFLOPS count because they're co-processors, I'd have to examine them separately. Similarly I don't count SPU performance to the total of the PS3's CPU, just the PPU performance, since that's the central unit.

RAM or VRAM don't give you an advantage in processing, those are just memory for storing data - unless your argument is that the 3DS could use less compression and by proxy require less processing power, VRAM/RAM doesn't give it the advantage.

Overall the original 3DS is a little over a half weaker than the Wii, which is precisely the reason why the N3DS, said to be twice as powerful as the original 3DS, is better for the job. Not that you couldn't port the game to the original - you could, you'd just have to cut a lot of corners. Similarly you could port a 360 game to the Wii (which has been done in the past as far as I remember), it's just the results that are less than satisfying.

Clear example that powerfull hardware and more GHZ =/= Better performane.

Instead: Newer architectures and technollogy = Better Performance.

Hz are a measure of cycles per second, not performance. Performance is measured in MIPS (millions of instructions per second, this measurement can be deceiving depending on the instruction set, but is still generally applied) and FLOPS (floating-point operations per second) in terms of calculation power and other measurements (for instance triangles per second). Speaking of newer technology, neither the 3DS nor the Wii is based on anything new.

 

[henn64]

Clear example that powerfull hardware and more GHZ =/= Better performane.

Instead: Newer architectures and technollogy = Better Performance.

But "does it have better graphics" and "can it run 60fps" seem to be what everyone asks these days.

Speaking of newer technology, neither the 3DS nor the Wii is based on anything new.

Why is that, anyway? The time of development before releasing the system, or is Nintendo just cheap with their consoles?

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Pokemon z or x/y2 will probably run at 60 fps now plus I believe gateway/ homebrew will find a way to hack the new 3ds after all it probably uses the same firmware as the old one

 

[henn64]

Pokemon z or x/y2 will probably run at 60 fps now plus I believe gateway/ homebrew will find a way to hack the new 3ds after all it probably uses the same firmware as the old one

Riiight.
Nintendo is fully aware of/actively trying to combat piracy. I'm sure they would let that slip under the radar.
No offense, but that isn't the smartest logic.

 

[TripleSMoon]

If the new 3ds can play Wii ports, this proves how under-powered the Wii was. I'd rather see GameCube games in the wiiu's eshop

Not really. That would be like saying that the PS3 was underpowered because the PS Vita has PS3 ports.

Heck, even the PSP have some (albeit very watered down) ports of PS3/360 games.

 

[Xzi]

I wasn't arguing with you, I was providing the real-life numbers, or rather as faithful approximations as I could find/calculate for the sake of argument clarity.

I didn't count the vector co-processors in the CPU's GFLOPS count because they're co-processors, I'd have to examine them separately. Similarly I don't count SPU performance to the total of the PS3's CPU, just the PPU performance, since that's the central unit.

RAM or VRAM don't give you an advantage in processing, those are just memory for storing data - unless your argument is that the 3DS could use less compression and by proxy require less processing power, VRAM/RAM doesn't give it the advantage.

Overall the original 3DS is a little over a half weaker than the Wii, which is precisely the reason why the N3DS, said to be twice as powerful as the original 3DS, is better for the job. Not that you couldn't port the game to the original - you could, you'd just have to cut a lot of corners. Similarly you could port a 360 game to the Wii (which has been done in the past as far as I remember), it's just the results that are less than satisfying.
Hz are a measure of cycles per second, not performance. Performance is measured in MIPS (millions of instructions per second, this measurement can be deceiving depending on the instruction set, but is still generally applied) and FLOPS (floating-point operations per second) in terms of calculation power and other measurements (for instance triangles per second). Speaking of newer technology, neither the 3DS nor the Wii is based on anything new.

If the new 3DS is really 2x as powerful as the current one, why even call it a 3DS? Might as create a new name for your next-generation handheld. No developer is going to take the time to re-optimize their game for a system with half the power. At least, not after a short period of fan service time.

Either way, this pisses me off to no end. I got in to the 3DS thing late. I've only had my 3DS XL for about a year now. Now it's worthless. New 3DS will likely be around $200, and the current XLs will only sell for like $80. God help people with the original non-XL 3DS systems. I'm just going to laugh as Nintendo continues to scramble to figure out why they're sinking. This is one big "fuck you" to anybody who doesn't have their parents buying every new system for them.

 

[Foxi4]

If the new 3DS is really 2x as powerful as the current one, why even call it a 3DS? Might as create a new name for your next-generation handheld. No developer is going to take the time to re-optimize their game for a system with half the power. At least, not after a short period of fan service time.

Either way, this pisses me off to no end. I got in to the 3DS thing late. I've only had my 3DS XL for about a year now. Now it's worthless. New 3DS will likely be around $200, and the current XLs will only sell for like $80. God help people with the original non-XL 3DS systems. I'm just going to laugh as Nintendo continues to scramble to figure out why they're sinking. This is one big "fuck you" to anybody who doesn't have their parents buying every new system for them.

The DSi was twice as powerful as the DS and it was still considered a revision (67MHz vs 133MHz), as was the Game Boy Color (4MHz vs 8MHz). "Twice as powerful" really isn't as much as you think it is in the grand scheme of things, especially when your hardware isn't very powerful to begin with. "Next-gens" provide far more considerable performance boosts. You don't really have to "re-optimize" games for "half the power" either provided you have a runtime service in the background.

The DSi didn't spell the end of the DS, the GBC didn't knock the GB out and the N3DS won't kill the 3DS. It provides a performance improvement, that's all - the exclusive titles are there to entice you to upgrade.

 

[Chary]

I wonder what Nintendo is going to make use of, with the new power in the revision. I don't remember the DSi doing too many new things that were so great. Maybe we can get 3D battles in the Pokemon games? Although, that's not really a big deal. Has anything been confirmed that other games besides Xenoblade will be N3DS only?

 

[Foxi4]

I wonder what Nintendo is going to make use of, with the new power in the revision. I don't remember the DSi doing too many new things that were so great. Maybe we can get 3D battles in the Pokemon games? Although, that's not really a big deal. Has anything been confirmed that other games besides Xenoblade will be N3DS only?

I deeply hope for performance improvements in N3DS-Enhanced Mode, plus NFC is sort-of obvious here. Aside from that there isn't any "gadgetry" that differentiates the two modes (seeing that the 3DS/3DS XL can be equipped with a CPP), so differences, if any, will come in the library and its performance.

 

[Xzi]

The DSi was twice as powerful as the DS and it was still considered a revision (67MHz vs 133MHz), as was the Game Boy Color (4MHz vs 8MHz). "Twice as powerful" really isn't as much as you think it is in the grand scheme of things, especially when your hardware isn't very powerful to begin with. "Next-gens" provide far more considerable performance boosts. You don't really have to "re-optimize" games for "half the power" either provided you have a runtime service in the background.

The DSi didn't spell the end of the DS, the GBC didn't knock the GB out and the N3DS won't kill the 3DS. It provides a performance improvement, that's all - the exclusive titles are there to entice you to upgrade.

We'll see. This is a different generation and a different Nintendo. It's also worth noting that twice the power is a lot more noticeable when it's something like 500MHz vs 1GHz as opposed to 67MHz vs 133MHz. Although it does largely depend more on how much the GPU performance is increased, because otherwise you're just seeing faster load times for games that look exactly the same on either system.

 

[DiscostewSM]

The DSi was twice as powerful as the DS and it was still considered a revision (67MHz vs 133MHz), as was the Game Boy Color (4MHz vs 8MHz). "Twice as powerful" really isn't as much as you think it is in the grand scheme of things, especially when your hardware isn't very powerful to begin with. "Next-gens" provide far more considerable performance boosts. You don't really have to "re-optimize" games for "half the power" either provided you have a runtime service in the background.

The DSi didn't spell the end of the DS, the GBC didn't knock the GB out and the N3DS won't kill the 3DS. It provides a performance improvement, that's all - the exclusive titles are there to entice you to upgrade.

When you think about it, the DSi has an improved CPU because it was needed for the camera. Technically, that is the same for the n3DS, because it has headtracking that utilizes the camera, processes the information, and yadda yadda yadda, all in an effort to increase the 3D viewing area for all games (both o3DS and n3DS). I highly doubt head-tracking would use that entire extra jump of the CPU, so what remains is used for n3DS-exclusives/enhanced games.

 

[Foxi4]

We'll see. This is a different generation and a different Nintendo. It's also worth noting that twice the power is a lot more noticeable when it's something like 500MHz vs 1GHz as opposed to 67MHz vs 133MHz. Although it does largely depend more on how much the GPU performance is increased, because otherwise you're just seeing faster load times for games that look exactly the same on either system.

Diminishing returns. The smaller the original number the bigger the difference seems - compare a 1MHz 8-bit Commodore 64 and a 1.79 MHz 8-bit NES and you'll see what I mean.

When you think about it, the DSi has an improved CPU because it was needed for the camera. Technically, that is the same for the n3DS, because it has headtracking that utilizes the camera, processes the information, and yadda yadda yadda, all in an effort to increase the 3D viewing area for all games (both o3DS and n3DS). I highly doubt head-tracking would use that entire extra jump of the CPU, so what remains is used for n3DS-exclusives/enhanced games.

Why would the DSi "require" a faster CPU for the camera only - when the camera is dormant, it doesn't require resources. Not only that, the cameras the DSi used could be controlled by a microwave. I'm not buying that excuse. The DSi factually performed better, all camera shenanigans aside. The difference is clear as day when you compare DSi Mode and DS Mode homebrew.

 

[TecXero]

We'll see. This is a different generation and a different Nintendo. It's also worth noting that twice the power is a lot more noticeable when it's something like 500MHz vs 1GHz as opposed to 67MHz vs 133MHz. Although it does largely depend more on how much the GPU performance is increased, because otherwise you're just seeing faster load times for games that look exactly the same on either system.

It's a matter of perspective. Ten years ago, in a handheld, that would have been impressive. Now, 1Ghz is to be expected. 20 years ago, the GBC was a decent jump in power. Technology progresses and jumps have to be exponentially bigger to be noticeable to us.

 

[brendonx]

I've been away from GBATemp for a while and now that I'm back I'm surprised to see that it looks like the popular thing to do these days is put down Nintendo just for the sake of it? They've definitely made some mistakes but when they do something cool or right they should be given the credit they deserve, and this isn't coming from a fanboy. I own a PS4 and XBOne as well as my WiiU, 3DS and vita.
When I heard the announcement about the New 3DS I was excited. I don't mind spending a little bit of money on something that will provide so much fun. Gaming is one of the best value for money activities out there.

In regards to the original post, I've wanted 2 sticks/circlepads on the 3ds forever and even though the nub they've added isn't gonna work for FPS games very well (most likely) it should be fine for the majority of games I play on the 3ds. MH4 is gonna be great to play on this. I'm really excited. I do wish the face plates would be available on the XL version as well but that's only a small concern for me.

 

[Foxi4]

It's a matter of perspective. Ten years ago, in a handheld, that would have been impressive. Now, 1Ghz is to be expected. 20 years ago, the GBC was a decent jump in power. Technology progresses and jumps have to be exponentially bigger to be noticeable to us.

My thoughts exactly. Look at the current gen situation for the best evidence - the PS4's CPU is about 3 times as capable, the GPU is 5 times better and the system has 8 times more memory in comparison to the PS3 and yet some people don't see a substantial increase in overall quality. Then again, contemporary games are far from pushing the system to its limits.

 

[TecXero]

I've been away from GBATemp for a while and now that I'm back I'm surprised to see that it looks like the popular thing to do these days is put down Nintendo just for the sake of it? They've definitely made some mistakes but when they do something cool or right they should be given the credit they deserve, and this isn't coming from a fanboy. I own a PS4 and XBOne as well as my WiiU, 3DS and vita.
When I heard the announcement about the New 3DS I was excited. I don't mind spending a little bit of money on something that will provide so much fun. Gaming is one of the best value for money activities out there.

In regards to the original post, I've wanted 2 sticks/circlepads on the 3ds forever and even though the nub they've added isn't gonna work for FPS games very well (most likely) it should be fine for the majority of games I play on the 3ds. MH4 is gonna be great to play on this. I'm really excited. I do wish the face plates would be available on the XL version as well but that's only a small concern for me.

Maybe I'm too jaded. I will get the new system if it has enough games I want to play, in the meantime it might be something I enjoy. I'm not going to put down $160 for something I might enjoy. I generally wait two years to get a console so I can get it cheaper and it generally will have exclusives I want to play, though I won't get it at all if it doesn't have exclusives I want to play.

Also, the only credit I give a company is my money when they're selling something I want. I'm rather neutral about Nintendo. I do like a lot of games they put out, but they also put out stuff I didn't enjoy. If they put out a game I end up enjoying, I'll buy it. Seems odd to me to give a company loyalty or the benefit of the doubt, that just means they can screw you over easier.

I'm curious as to what the N3DS will be capable of, I'm also curious as to what this will lead to with their next generation of handheld. I think the N3DS makes great improvements and I would love those improvements to evolve further in their next system, but I don't think the improvements are worth $160 over what I currently have. The only things that will entice me to get it are the exclusives.

My thoughts exactly. Look at the current gen situation for the best evidence - the PS4's CPU is about 3 times as capable, the GPU is 5 times better and the system has 8 times more memory in comparison to the PS3 and yet some people don't see a substantial increase in overall quality. Then again, contemporary games are far from pushing the system to its limits.

That's how it goes with games, it takes a while for developers to really get a handle on utilizing the hardware. I remember a lot of the early PS3/360 games not looking much better than PS2/Xbox games.

 

[Foxi4]

That's how it goes with games, it takes a while for developers to really get a handle on utilizing the hardware. I remember a lot of the early PS3/360 games not looking much better than PS2/Xbox games.

Of course, that's why I don't really treat those naysayers seriously. That, and we can't forget that most contemporary games are still made cross-platfrom, for 7th and 8th generation systems, so the PS3 and the 360 are still "holding the PS4 and XBox One back", so to speak.

 

[TecXero]

Of course, that's why I don't really treat those naysayers seriously. That, and we can't forget that most contemporary games are still made cross-platfrom, for 7th and 8th generation systems, so the PS3 and the 360 are still "holding the PS4 and XBox One back", so to speak.

Yeah, this generation seems particularly bad at that. It probably relates to how long the last generation stuck around and how many people got into gaming in that time. A lot of them might not see a need to upgrade. I think a lot of the problems (though they're not really major problems) could have been avoided if the platforms were developed and released two or three years earlier. I think 2011 would have been a good year to start the current generation.

 

[Foxi4]

Yeah, this generation seems particularly bad at that. It probably relates to how long the last generation stuck around and how many people got into gaming in that time. A lot of them might not see a need to upgrade. I think a lot of the problems (though they're not really major problems) could have been avoided if the platforms were developed and released two or three years earlier. I think 2011 would have been a good year to start the next generation.

It was easily the broadest gaming generation judging by the sales alone - 101 million Wii's, 83 million Xbox 360's and 83 million PS3's equals 267 million consoles sold. Even if we assume that a small fraction of the userbase bought several consoles, that's still easily over 200 million gamers using last generation systems - it's hard to let go of their wallets when they're not sufficiently keen on upgrading.

 

[TecXero]

It was easily the broadest gaming generation judging by the sales alone - 101 million Wii's, 83 million Xbox 360's and 83 million PS3's equals 267 million consoles sold. Even if we assume that a small fraction of the userbase bought several consoles, that's still easily over 200 million gamers using last generation systems - it's hard to let go of their wallets when they're not sufficiently keen on upgrading.

Oh yeah, I completely agree that's why it was held onto for so long. Developing a new console, advertising it, getting game developers to develop games for it, and a multitude of legal concerns is a huge investment. There's no doubt in my mind that's why they didn't want to do it. Unfortunately, it seems a good portion of those companies are a bit short sighted. By sticking to an old console, it started to become stagnant and people started losing interest. Before the previous generation, PC and phone gaming still seemed rather niche. With the last generation being dragged along, people were able to step back and look around for different or better experiences.

I play PC, console, handheld, and whatever else has a game that interests me. I don't need the most powerful hardware to have fun or anything like that, I just hope that the companies don't do a repeat of the end of the last generation. They're by no means suffering, it's just this is the worst transition overall I've ever witnessed between generations, outside of maybe watching Sega flounder about when the PS2 came along.

On previous points. I, also, would like to see the N3DS to do well enough to warrant more games to use the second analog stick, I have my CPP just in case. I'd also like to see the controls to make it into the next generation. I may not be buying the N3DS, but that doesn't mean I want to see it fail.