Hacking 3ds plays N64 games?

[Rydian]

honestly if they made 2 different 64 games into new 3ds games i'm sure they can make them in downloadable features, but i doubt they will....

So, by your logic, the DS can emulate the 64.

He's referencing the ports/remakes.

Yes, because it makes perfect sense for an emulator to make games 3D, too..

Actually... Modern emulators for 3D systems pass all the rendering data to the GPU after calculating it, so tweaking the camera and rendering two frames wouldn't be hard. I mean they can already do things like render N64 games in 16:10 and other such aspect ratios... and there's even a plugin for the PSP that can force PSP games to run a one of those colored-glasses 3D modes (since again it's just messing with the rendering).

 

[Giga_Gaia]

None of this discussion matters since this is impossible for now due to the fact that there is no flashcarts out and for all you know, there may never be any way to play homebrews and roms either.

 

[manuel1984]

@all:
The 3DS CPU cant Emulate, even with its 2 Cores, the N64. The Architecture is to much different, that it could translate the Code into ARM Code and an emulation, as I said, is not possible.

Dynamic Recompilation says hello.

as said, architecture to different and not powerful enough.

 

[Deleted User]

It would be possible, it would be easier to remake the game, no?

 

[heartgold]

@all:
The 3DS CPU cant Emulate, even with its 2 Cores, the N64. The Architecture is to much different, that it could translate the Code into ARM Code and an emulation, as I said, is not possible.

Dynamic Recompilation says hello.

as said, architecture to different and not powerful enough.

Cool since you know the specs you might wanna share it out.

 

[Deleted User]

I know it was a big post, but I mentioned that I'm not going to bother finding all the sources for the various bits of information. The sources are out there but it would take a long time to track down each and every one.

I also called out the 266MHz thing as bogus specs. They are completely unfounded bits of information that somebody made up and then they spread like wildfire despite being completely made up. Also the 3DS uses a 800x240 screen and a 320x240 screen. Vita is, IIRC, 960x544 or something like that.192000+76800 vs 522240, Vita still has more pixels to render(almost double). I actually believe the 3DS resolution to be it's biggest weakness. Touchscreen resolution is fine, it's not the main screen, but the top-screen should have been something like 1600x480 but that resolution might be too big, so we'll scale that back to about 1152x360(16:10). Anyways, the point is that 3DS game will always have "jaggies" because of it's poor resolution. I'm confident the hardware could have supported at least 1152x360 and still been able to deliver quality graphics. So 3DS games will always look worse than Vita games because the low resolution limits how much detail can be seen, even if they had the exact same processing power.

Another point people are overlooking is the amount of effort developers are putting into their games. You can have the most powerful system in the world and if a developer doesn't put in the effort than their game will still look like crap. The Wii suffers from this big time, and now the 3DS is going to see a similar fate if developers don't step up. I'm not say every developer is lazy, but it's clear that some games didn't receive the type of effort they should have. 3DS is going to become just as much a dumping ground for shovelware as the Wii is. If you look for the quality titles you will see the power of the system shine through, or at least as much the poor resolution will show. First gen 3DS games are going to look like enhanced DS games compare to the kinds of titles we will see on the 3DS in the next few years.

Uneducated view:
-Less pixels than Vita
-F1 2011 looks shit

-3DS is shit
-Crap graphics
-Just another DS

-End

It's a sorry state of affairs.

If you're going to troll at least put some effort into it.

If you want an example of some of what the 3DS is capable of, you can see it in this video: http://www.gonintend...story&id=168577
Those graphics blow me away. I'm used to playing high-quality titles on PC with amazing graphics, but it just blows my mind how much power this handheld system has. It is honestly gorgeous. Sure it's nowhere near the levels of graphics I can get on my PC but the graphics are still amazingly well done.

Oh, don't worry, it wasn't a troll- I was saying IF I was uneducated that would be what I was thinking.
I totally agree with your post from earlier- no-one knows the 3DS's true power, and it could turn out to be pretty much nigh on amazing

 

[DiscostewSM]

@all:
The 3DS CPU cant Emulate, even with its 2 Cores, the N64. The Architecture is to much different, that it could translate the Code into ARM Code and an emulation, as I said, is not possible.

Dynamic Recompilation says hello.

as said, architecture to different and not powerful enough.

And why would that make a difference? Dynamic Recompilation takes CPU instructions from one architecture, converts it to the different architecture, and saves it so it won't have to convert it when it runs across that instruction again. While some code would require 2-3 extra instructions to mimic a single instruction, there is also the possibility that a single instruction of the target architecture can handle an operation that would require 2-3 instructions from the source architecture. You take a look at something like the Corn N64 emulator for the PC, and you can see just how effective it is. I was able to run that emulator on a 233Mhz Pentium II at almost 60 fps with Super Mario 64, and the Pentium II is a far older architecture and not nearly as advanced as the ARM11.

 

[celcodioc]

First, I'd like to tell you that I've not been keeping up with the 3DS hacking and stuff lately, so feel free to correct any mistakes in this post.



Anyway, I do not think the 3DS can emulate a N64 at full speed, even if both processors are used. It might reach somewhere near 50% without frame skip if the emulator is written in a good way, just not full speed.

About the system itself... remember that the 3DS has two processors and not two cores, and, if I recall correctly, one of them is only used for the OS and background processes. And looking at the battery life and power of the 3DS, a 268 MHz CPU seems fairly unlikely to me. I'd assume it is clocked at 400-500 MHz. But then again, the architecture matters too.

Developing a N64 emulator for the 3DS isn't possible until the system is hacked or properly emulated though, and that might never happen, you know... but I'm still hoping that someone finds a way eventually.

...

If you want an example of some of what the 3DS is capable of, you can see it in this video: http://www.gonintend...story&id=168577
Those graphics blow me away. I'm used to playing high-quality titles on PC with amazing graphics, but it just blows my mind how much power this handheld system has. It is honestly gorgeous. Sure it's nowhere near the levels of graphics I can get on my PC but the graphics are still amazingly well done.

MH3G's shaders look really good, but the texture resolution could've been a little better. The models are pretty smooth though.

 

[Deleted User]

Howabout;
stop speculating because we know nothing

 

[Jakob95]

@all:
The 3DS CPU cant Emulate, even with its 2 Cores, the N64. The Architecture is to much different, that it could translate the Code into ARM Code and an emulation, as I said, is not possible.

Dynamic Recompilation says hello.

as said, architecture to different and not powerful enough.

All we know is that the 3DS uses an ARM processor. The 3DS could be running an ARM Cortex A8 processor, and that it self is capable of emulating the N64.

 

[Chaosruler]

actually since N64 is RISC-based and ARM is advanced RISC machine, and the 3DS holds more memory and faster memory then N64, I can see the processing and memory of n64 being emulated even on the DS, the graphics engine of N64 is the problem (3D), what the DS got is an accelrated fake 3D (and I don't mean 3D effect, I mean 3D processing), it's more of 2D+1D then 3D (being two dimensional maps being glued to one more dimension), since the 3DS got it's own GPU, I expect it to play the basic of N64 games very well while having a lower frame per second level on more advanced games, with enough tweaking I can see a very (non accurate) fast emulator with playable speeds for nearly more then 60% of the ROM's, normally if the N64 and the 3DS were an entirely different machine then It'd require at least 8x times more hardware power (not speed) to actually emulate them well, SM64 and ZedlaOOT or any other remade games don't really count, their entirely new game written from scratch based on the sprites, database and maps of an existing game, not a code designed for one system to run another system's bootable files and emulate the behavior of that another system, emulators are no magic trick, notice it took VBA 2 years and a lot of improvement on hardware to get an x86 system at least 30 times better then GBA to emulate the GBA well, writing a N64 emulator from scratch itself will take a lot of time, and a lot of reports from us (users) to make more perfections (Yes, you reporting what kind of crashes you had with that emulator might indicate inproper emulating that can be FIXED, all you need to do is a post a log)

 

[Taellon]

Oh, don't worry, it wasn't a troll- I was saying IF I was uneducated that would be what I was thinking.
I totally agree with your post from earlier- no-one knows the 3DS's true power, and it could turn out to be pretty much nigh on amazing

Okay, sorry about the accusation. Honestly I wasn't even sure if that was trolling due to the "Uneducated View" remark, I didn't know if you were using that ironically to troll or as an actual example. There are far too many trolls on the internet and it gets hard to tell the difference, you can only get so much information from text since there is no emotion attached to denote sarcasm or joking. Again, sorry for the accusation.

In all my posts in this topic I never weighed in directly on the topic at hand. Could the 3DS emulate the N64? I'd practically guarantee that. We don't know the specs, but continuing with my speculation from previous posts, the 3DS should be plenty powerful enough to emulate the N64. Nintendo themselves would probably do the best job of building an emulator for it but even homebrew(providing the 3DS eventually gets hacked) should be able to get a competent N64 emulator running on the 3DS.

And I am noticing another bit of "bogus specs" being brought up in recent posts. The whole multiple CPU issue with the 3DS. IIRC, the actual remarks given were fairly vague but in now way said that the primary CPU wasn't dual-core or anything. I don't recall the source so I can't go check for sure, but I seem to remember the second CPU was purely for managing wireless functions and/or the system's OS.

But I want to bring something else to people's attention. Every Nintendo handheld since at least the GBA has had mutliple CPUs. The main system chip and another chip for backward compatability. And if I'm remembering, the 2nd CPU would sometimes be used with the main CPU to handle certain tasks of the system. So following this, we could speculate the 2nd CPU in the 3DS is actually the DS/DSi CPU that simply handles other functions during 3DS mode but are also used instead of the primary CPU for playing DS/DSi games.

More speculation, don't take it as truth, but think about it. I might be missing some information here or there and maybe I'm remembering some things wrong, but this idea makes sense to me based on everything I've read so far. If you doubt it then seek out the truth and let us know, just don't go throwing around bogus specs as if they were true.

 

[Alexrose]

The wii can only barely emulate the N64 at horrible frame rates with huge graphical issues after years of effort. No chance.

 

[Kayot]

I'd like to add that Nintendo made an emulator for the Wii that works just fine. They'll probably do it for the 3DS as well. I think that's the reason that the Wii N64 emulator isn't finished. Much like why bother making a PS1 emulator for the PSP when POPS works just fine most of the time minus savestate. Everything else is done with plugins.

At least that's my take on it.

I'd say leave the subject alone for now and revisit it at a later date when someone who knows how to make a 3DS N64 emulator comes along.

P.S. What games would you want to use the emulator for anyway? It seems like the best classics are getting remade. When the system is hacked open, just download the games you feel entitled to. I'm enjoying the new Zelda 64 which looks fantastic compared to the original. I'm going to play the new Mario game next, but I'm a little weary since every time I play a Mario game it's like "Wow, Mario rocks!" Then a few minutes in I'm like "What was I thinking? I hate Mario!"

 

[omega59]

Bring on the gamecube emulators!!!!!

 

[DillonOliviero]

[The 3DS has two 268MHz ARM11 cores, it wont be able to emulate N64 Games, even if, than almost unplayable.

With a good dynarec and fast HLE graphics engine, I can totally see N64 games possible. However, the N64 emulation scene has been essentially dead for years, so I won't expect anybody to show up to make one when the 3DS gets homebrew.

No. The 3DS has no trouble emulating something like the SNES because the SNES only ran at 3.58MHz.
N64? Nope. Like manuel said, 268MHz dual core ARM11 is not fast enough. There are emulators for iOS/Android that can emulate N64, but then we're talking about more powerful SoCs with better graphics solutions...

Raw speed is only part of the equation for emulation. You also have to take the number of chips into coniseration and exactly how accurate you want the emulator to be. If someone makes an emulator from scratch, specifically with speed on the 3DS in mind, it could be possible to make a playable N64 emulator. Hell, UltraHLE was able to run on computers back in 1999 with way less than a Gigahertz of CPU speed.

520 mhz 3ds 128mb ram n64 110mhz split-core a processor in two pieces instead of dual-core [2 prossesors] it has 4-8mb ram so there IS enough ram to run it. as 3ds use 32-64mb
for games. check wiki.

 

[yuyuyup]

[The 3DS has two 268MHz ARM11 cores, it wont be able to emulate N64 Games, even if, than almost unplayable.

With a good dynarec and fast HLE graphics engine, I can totally see N64 games possible. However, the N64 emulation scene has been essentially dead for years, so I won't expect anybody to show up to make one when the 3DS gets homebrew.

No. The 3DS has no trouble emulating something like the SNES because the SNES only ran at 3.58MHz.
N64? Nope. Like manuel said, 268MHz dual core ARM11 is not fast enough. There are emulators for iOS/Android that can emulate N64, but then we're talking about more powerful SoCs with better graphics solutions...

Raw speed is only part of the equation for emulation. You also have to take the number of chips into coniseration and exactly how accurate you want the emulator to be. If someone makes an emulator from scratch, specifically with speed on the 3DS in mind, it could be possible to make a playable N64 emulator. Hell, UltraHLE was able to run on computers back in 1999 with way less than a Gigahertz of CPU speed.

520 mhz 3ds 128mb ram n64 110mhz split-core a processor in two pieces instead of dual-core [2 prossesors] it has 4-8mb ram so there IS enough ram to run it. as 3ds use 32-64mb
for games. check wiki.

Nice necro, also it's more complex than the raw numbers obviously

 

[flygon12345]

...what i think is the 3ds wont be able to emulate it but it will be able to play them...like the gba games ..emulator is bad but eshop games work perfectly ..if n64 games come in eshop they will work...and gamecube lol 20% possible since the graphic card used has the same architecture

 

[weavile001]

yes.

 

[Catastrophic]

Largest N64 game is 64MB, and the N64 has either 4MB of it's own RAM (8MB with the expansion). 3DS has 128MB of RAM, 96MB of that being dedicated to games. So, yes, it can fit inside the system's RAM, and still have a good amount for other things such as the emulator itself. PSX games are different because of the method used to read the data (CDs vs cartridge). If a PSX emulator was made for the 3DS (whenever it gets hacked), memory will not be an issue.

Actually, the max rom size for an N64 game was 128MB, but Resident Evil 2 was the only game that achieved that size.