Steam Machine Disappointment

[stinkoman]

Are you trying to tell me that there are tons of steam machines, some that meet your needs and some that satisfy varying needs and wants? It's like they're trying to give people options.
INSANITY!

 

[Foxi4]

If you want a small form factor desktop PC that can also play games, right now, you have to do a custom build using a mini-ITX board and an AMD APU. Problem is, those have such weak CPU's your pushing it when you run emulators, and they run hotter than the sun and eat through power.

Uhh... Nope? You're acting as if there weren't any i7-compatible Mini-ITX/Micro-ATX boards, or no PCI-Express on them. You're not forced to use AMD APU's at all.

Let's see...

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2CYXb

Quad-Core i7 + Dual GTX760 4+4GB VRAM 2-Way SLI + 16GB DDR3 RAM + misc. junk required to get this setup to work - wipes the floor with the higher-end Steam Machines and it's "just" $1289 with shipping included. Turn this thing on at your own peril - the sheer amount of horsepower might cause it to obtain sentience, take off and fly into space to meet otherworldly civilizations.

...would you like me to build you a "less kick-ass" one?

 

[PityOnU]

Uhh... Nope? You're acting as if there weren't any i7-compatible Mini-ITX/Micro-ATX boards, or no PCI-Express on them. You're not forced to use AMD APU's at all.

Let's see...

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2CYXb

Quad-Core i7 + Dual GTX760 4+4GB VRAM 2-Way SLI + 16GB DDR3 RAM + misc. junk required to get this setup to work - wipes the floor with the higher-end Steam Machines and it's "just" $1289 with shipping included. Turn this thing on at your own peril - the sheer amount of horsepower might cause it to obtain sentience, take off and fly into space to meet otherworldly civilizations.

...would you like me to build you a "less kick-ass" one?

Yes please!

Please build me one that fits in this case. It has to be that big so it can sit on a shelf in my entertainment system next to my 20TB storage array. I would like it to be able to run Dolphin at 1080p, be a file server (and maybe a Minecraft server) when not in use, so keep the energy consumption low. I also don't want it to pull any more than... let's say 80W from the wall - any more than that and it will overheat/be super loud.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Foxi4]

Yes please!

Please build me one that fits in this case. It has to be that big so it can sit on a shelf in my entertainment system next to my 20TB storage array. I would like it to be able to run Dolphin at 1080p, be a file server (and maybe a Minecraft server) when not in use, so keep the energy consumption low. I also don't want it to pull any more than... let's say 80W from the wall - any more than that and it will overheat/be super loud.

Thanks in advance for your help!

You're not going to get performance if you're not willing to pay your electric bill. Energy consumption has nothing to do with overheating or with being "super loud". Those Steam Machines aren't going to be 80W either, so I don't see your point.

 

[Gahars]

Disappointment? What's there to be disappointed about? It's a great song!

 

[PityOnU]

You're not going to get performance if you're not willing to pay your electric bill. Energy consumption has nothing to do with overheating or with being "super loud".

As far as I am aware, energy consumption in processors/graphics cards is directly related to the heat they generate. Unless your generating light, sound, or huge arcing bolts of electricity. The recommended limit of that case is actually 65W. So, energy consumption really has everything to do with overheating and being super loud.

Those Steam Machines aren't going to be 80W either, so I don't see your point.

The Gigabyte Brix Pro is ~65W. The Alienware and Maingear are probably close to that.

I'm not sure what you're even arguing anymore.

My point has been, and remains, that this was an opportunity to create a whole new class of machine, but very few OEM's took the opportunity, and even fewer did it well.

The Alienware Steam machine prototype is literally the only machine in existence (or at least, soon to be in existence) that fits the use case of a general purpose home theatre PC. I will most likely be getting that one come fall, and pay way over the odds for it because there is literally zero competition.

To further clarify (because we seem to have gotten way, way, WAY off the point here):

No, I'm not saying I want a Godzilla gaming rig next to my TV. I cannot justify the noise, cost and eyesore of a quad SLI system consuming half of my entertainment center so that I can run Crysis 3 at 120fps in 4K with maximum detail.

No, I'm not saying I want an Intel Atom rig next to my TV. The size is good, but I'm not going to pay $400 for a PC that can just about queef out a Blu-Ray rip. I'm also not going to buy one of these AS WELL AS a gaming PC for my TV. How many PC's can one person have!?

What I'm saying is that if I'm buying a PC specifically to be connected to my TV, it had better 1) be able to play games [max out emulators and play PC games at low-mid] 2) be vewy vewy qwiet 3) be small so it fits in my entertainment center, in addition to looking like it belongs there and 4) be able to have low power consumption so I can watch movies and host files with it as well, because I'm not going to buy a home server + a living room gaming machine.

Is this making any sense at all? Do you understand the point I'm trying to get across here?

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Don't like the official Steam Machines? Build one yourself.

Bam, QQ.

 

[Foxi4]

As far as I am aware, energy consumption in processors/graphics cards is directly related to the heat they generate. Unless your generating light, sound, or huge arcing bolts of electricity. The recommended limit of that case is actually 65W. So, energy consumption really has everything to do with overheating and being super loud.

Lots of heat? Buy a good radiator and a fan - done. The fact that you generate heat doesn't mean that you can't dissipate it.

The Gigabyte Brix Pro is ~65W. The Alienware and Maingear are probably close to that.

The Brix Pro uses a crappy on-die Intel HD chip, it's worse than an AMD APU. You asked for a rig that will pull off 1080p Dolphin - this certaily will not.

I'm not sure what you're even arguing anymore.

I'm arguing that you can easily build an equivalent or superior machine for an equivalent or lower sum of money with relative ease.

My point has been, and remains, that this was an opportunity to create a whole new class of machine, but very few OEM's took the opportunity, and even fewer did it well.

I'll agree with the "very few OEM's" part, I disagree with the "new class of a machine" because it really isn't, all things considered.

The Alienware Steam machine prototype is literally the only machine in existence (or at least, soon to be in existence) that fits the use case of a general purpose home theatre PC. I will most likely be getting that one come fall, and pay way over the odds for it because there is literally zero competition.

To further clarify (because we seem to have gotten way, way, WAY off the point here):

No, I'm not saying I want a Godzilla gaming rig next to my TV. I cannot justify the noise, cost and eyesore of a quad SLI system consuming half of my entertainment center so that I can run Crysis 3 at 120fps in 4K with maximum detail.

No, I'm not saying I want an Intel Atom rig next to my TV. The size is good, but I'm not going to pay $400 for a PC that can just about queef out a Blu-Ray rip. I'm also not going to buy one of these AS WELL AS a gaming PC for my TV. How many PC's can one person have!?

What I'm saying is that if I'm buying a PC specifically to be connected to my TV, it had better 1) be able to play games [max out emulators and play PC games at low-mid] 2) be vewy vewy qwiet 3) be small so it fits in my entertainment center, in addition to looking like it belongs there and 4) be able to have low power consumption so I can watch movies and host files with it as well, because I'm not going to buy a home server + a living room gaming machine.

Is this making any sense at all? Do you understand the point I'm trying to get across here?

I do, I did from the very start. In that case, a simple i5 rig with an R270 on-board should serve you well and consume no more than 220W under full-on stress, ten times less when in Sleep Mode.

 

[the_randomizer]

And this is why I'm glad I built a custom PC for $1100

 

[marcus134]

I would like it to be able to run Dolphin at 1080p, be a file server (and maybe a Minecraft server) I also don't want it to pull any more than... let's say 80W from the wall

those 2 requirement won't be possible before at least 10 years using normal hardware, an i5 cpu gets the 85W alone, beside you probably won't be able to run dolphin from steam os anyway.

There are not many solution available that let you stream games and software over the lan and I have no idea how rdp or vnc performs in those situation.

The easiest way would be to run a hdmi cable through the walls and use a xbox wireless controller.

Personally, i'm having a hard time understanding the point of high end steam machine since they won't run many games aside from the few linux compatible ones, which exclude all those high end ones which require top of the line hardware.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

those 2 requirement won't be possible before at least 10 years using normal hardware, an i5 cpu gets the 85W alone, beside you probably won't be able to run dolphin from steam os anyway.

Yeah, just a note, Dolphin has Linux builds. So you would be able to run it, since SteamOS is a Debian derivative.

 

[marcus134]

Yeah, just a note, Dolphin has Linux builds. So you would be able to run it, since SteamOS is a Debian derivative.

yeah but steam os doesn't let you run softwares other than the steam client itself + some linux compatible games purchased on steam. It currently doesn't let you stream pictures, video or music either.

As it is right now, the steam box is an extremely expensive HDMI cable and wireless controller, except you don't need to pass a hdmi cable through the wall, although if you want the best experience, you'll need to pass a rj-45 cable through the wall anyway (unless you have a powerline network).

The worst part being that aside from being more expensive than current (next) gen consoles (with few exceptions), it has less features than previous gen console.

 

[VampireLordAlucard]

Give it a year or two to mature.

When Chrome OS was first revealed, everyone declared it useless. After a few years of maturing, it's found a decent little niche with some pretty solid hardware. Maybe Steam OS just needs a couple years to mature and to let manufacturers figure out what kind of hardware will be successful.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

yeah but steam os doesn't let you run softwares other than the steam client itself + some linux compatible games purchased on steam. It currently doesn't let you stream pictures, video or music either.

As it is right now, the steam box is an extremely expensive HDMI cable and wireless controller, except you don't need to pass a hdmi cable through the wall, although if you want the best experience, you'll need to pass a rj-45 cable through the wall anyway (unless you have a powerline network).

The worst part being that aside from being more expensive than current (next) gen consoles (with few exceptions), it has less features than previous gen console.

Except you're absolutely wrong on all points.

Essentially all SteamOS is is Steam Big Picture mode on a Debian distro. If I really wanted to, I could install Steam on my Linux Mint distro, enable it to start up to big picture mode, and bam I would have SteamOS. SteamOS uses GNOME for a desktop environment, and you can access it no problems.

Q: How do I get to the desktop on SteamOS? All I see is Steam.
To access the SteamOS desktop, it must be enabled from the Steam Settings menu. Select Settings (the gear icon in the top right) then select Interface and check the "Enable access to the Linux desktop" box. Now the Exit button will have an additional option, "Return to Desktop" that will switch to the SteamOS desktop.

From the desktop, click on the "Return to Steam" icon to switch back to Steam.

You would also be able to install any other packages you want, allowing you to stream pictures/videos/music.

Steamboxes also aren't just "an extremely expensive HDMI cable and wireless controller". SteamBoxes have actual PC hardware in them, a majority of them having high-spec'd hardware (which explains the price), and some have medium-high specs. Like the $500 Cyberpower Steam Machine, it has either an AMD/Intel i5, an AMD Radeon R9 270/GTX 760, 8GB of RAM and 500GB of storage. For $500, that would be an excellent and cheap gaming PC. If I decided to go to Newegg and just throw those parts together, it would cost >$600-$700 depending on what I put in it.

It also has all the same features as a desktop PC, so by default it pretty much has more shit than any console does.

 

[Foxi4]

Like the $500 Cyberpower Steam Machine, it has either an AMD/Intel i5, an AMD Radeon R9 270/GTX 760, 8GB of RAM and 500GB of storage. For $500, that would be an excellent and cheap gaming PC. If I decided to go to Newegg and just throw those parts together, it would cost >$600-$700 depending on what I put in it.

This is something I did notice about the cheaper Steam Machines. The ones that are near $500 are generally good deals specs-wise, and from that point upwards it's becoming more and more of a rip-off as the big name brands roll in. There's a couple Steam Machines that are genuienly good purchases, like the IBuyPower or the Cyberpower you mentioned. Most are meh, but a couple are actually good configs for the price.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

This is something I did notice about the cheaper Steam Machines. The ones that are near $500 are generally good deals specs-wise, and from that point upwards it's becoming more and more of a rip-off as the big name brands roll in. There's a couple Steam Machines that are genuienly good purchases, like the IBuyPower or the Cyberpower you mentioned. Most are meh, but a couple are actually good configs for the price.

Yeah, I myself wouldn't buy any of the Steam Machines priced over $600, but the Cyberpower/IBuyPower are excellent deals and I would jump on them in an instant if I had the funds to waste and I didn't already have a gaming PC.

 

[CompassNorth]

So let me get this straight?

You want smallest form factor possible.
You want a HTPC (why is this all of a sudden being thrown in with gaming PCs?) that can max out emulators (not easy with what you consider small) and give great game performance.

Those PCs are pretty small considering that they can pack huge dedicated GPUs and have good air flow, especially the BitFenix case, it just seems like a prodigy without the handles which is already pretty small.

Seems like you're reaching for far too much.

Build your own PC using a Cooler Master Elite 120, Rosewill Legacy U2-S, w/e m-ITX case suits you. Or build a mITX that will make use of the SteamOS stream feature which seems more your style, but you'll need a good desktop.

As for me, I'm not disappointed. I know these PCs were going to be no different than what you see people building, especially when it was announced that iBuyPower, CyberPowerPC, ect were going to manufacturer it.

 

[Apache Thunder]

The fact that there are so many different versions of the Steam machine from different makers and with different specs means that this is just going to fail. The whole point of Steam machine was to simplify the process for the average consumer so they could buy one machine like they could a console and it would play all the steam games. Instead we get this clusterf***. The reason dedicated gaming PCs never took off (for the casual gamers, not the hard core tech people who would have either built their own machine or had lots of cash to burn on a prebuilt one) is that they are way overpriced and requires at least some knowledge behind the specs of the PCs in question to make the right purchase decision.

With consoles, most folks didn't have to worry about that. Buy an "XBox 360" game and it will run on all XBox 360s and a PS3 game only runs on a PS3. Or in the "new generation" of games there is now Xbox One and PS4 games and what system each game needs to run is quite clear to everyone where as a with a PC, one has to look up a whole bunch of crap to be sure they got a machine that would play the game they want. They have to check that it has the right OS installed, the right amount of ram, the right CPU, and the right video card. A ton of different combinations.

There isn't a thousand different versions of a particular console (for the most part anyways. ). Sure they had different bundles with some different harddrive capacities and newer "slim" models, but compared to PCs, this is childs play.

And price was a big reason too. PC's aren't necessarily more expensive then consoles. The pre-built scam price guaging crap from Alienware and the like are the ones that give gaming PCs a bad rep in the price department. To compete with consoles price wise, one would have to pretty much build the PC themselves.

This requires a lot of technical know how on the part of the average consumer. Steam machines were suppose to get around all this and make things easier. Now at this point the only simplified part of the system is the OS. But everything else is just the same problems that PCs have.

Had such promise too.

 

[marcus134]

SteamOS uses GNOME for a desktop environment, and you can access it no problems.
[...] Steam FAQ quote [...]

Good find, but I'll still argue that for the general, non tech savvy, couch/living room user, that's kinda counter intuitive and that it goes against the "keyboard-less living room pc gaming experience" vision the steambox is supposed to be.

I am fully aware that steamBoxes are full fledged computer and can be freely tinkered with, however I find the unmodified steamOS + big picture UI doesn't do justice to the hardware that powers it and doesn't have a lot to offer in order to squeeze itself a comfy spot in the living room. (taking the point of view of a non tech savvy user)

SteamBoxes have actual PC hardware in them, a majority of them having high-spec'd hardware (which explains the price), and some have medium-high specs. Like the $500 Cyberpower Steam Machine, it has either an AMD/Intel i5, an AMD Radeon R9 270/GTX 760, 8GB of RAM and 500GB of storage. For $500, that would be an excellent and cheap gaming PC. If I decided to go to Newegg and just throw those parts together, it would cost >$600-$700 depending on what I put in it.

I think you've just put the finger on the best/worst part of the steam box as some of them are really good bang for the bucks as gaming pc, but considering the small number of games that run on linux and also when it comes to big title they wont be used as gaming machine, they'll simply stream the game from a windows based computer and as there aren't many triple A games that runs on linux the money spent on those machines is wasted. (unless windows is installed)

The thing is, I fear it might cause some misinformation, people might see those computer and think that's all they need to get themselves gaming and blindly throwing themselves into the huge steam library, only to find out that they need another computer to play most of the titles listed there.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

The thing is, I fear it might cause some misinformation, people might see those computer and think that's all they need to get themselves gaming and blindly throwing themselves into the huge steam library, only to find out that they need another computer to play most of the titles listed there.

Which Valve and game devs are working on as well. They've made numerous statements that they're working to increase Linux support with as many Steam games as possible while urging many game devs to do the same. There are currently...500 or so games that support Linux that are on Steam right now, and while there aren't very many "CoD/BF/AssCreed/whatever" big stuff, you still have a majority of Valve games and hordes of good indie titles like Fez, FTL, Trine, Bit.Trip, etc. Seeing how we still have no clue when Steam Machines/SteamOS will officially launch, there's plenty of time for devs to add Linux support to their games.