Gaming [Q] Why do people pirate?

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Are you saying that, if you had the chance to steal a coke while buying junk food, you'd do that?

I don't get what you were trying to say here.

Offers exist to appeal those who weren't considering to play the game immediately. By pirating, you are at the same level as those who got their game in the same time, yet you didn't pay it. It's like saying "I'm buying this phone that just came out but I will pay it when I find offers around". It makes no sense.

You know, I remember when Vision GT was just announced and every videogame magazine I used to buy at that time said how this was a "demo of a demo", and everyone I knew with a PS3 knew that. You make it sound like Prologue was a full-priced demo and no one knew that, despite everyone knowing every GT game outside GT5 for the PS3 was not going to be the real deal.
That thing aside, how does one game justify you to pirate every AAA title? And to give credit to a genre that has been exploited worse than any other commercial company has?

Gaming industry is like any other industry. It's not a second-class economy that deserves their piracy "just because it's easy". It is made from hard workers who have a job to take care of.

...are you implying that the game shouldn't have been made because of the piracy?
As for the used market, I've always believed it as the real "I don't like what you did, I want (part of) my money back". If you sell a game it's because you didn't like it enough to justify the price and try to cut down the cost. It balances the market the way it should be.

Leaving aside that theft of property and copyright infringement are two different concepts with wildly differing needs (the former requires some misdirection, speed and has not great consequences that are not unlikely, the latter requires no real effort, no real skills and is unlikely to see me up in front of the beak) I am not sure that even tracks there. Most have a limited amount of fun stuff money and well is, as the accountants say, fungible (what you do not spend on one thing you can spend on something else). Charities see something similar with this when you earmark money* or have percentages go to overhead or not ( http://www.sciencemag.org/content/346/6209/632 ).

Think of it as similar to "if the police can catch me then I do not deserve to be driving" and similar such things.

Yeah by most accounting logic the pirate now and pick up later model is not very sound at all. It was more that something may differ between "most will never pick up a legit copy" thing and reality.

I have serious issues with the concept of genre, especially if you are going to try to classify things as broadly as "AAA" and "indy". It was not as much one game, just that your division was poor and that could have been an example, one of many, of that.

"Gaming industry is like any other industry", it is like any other entertainment industry. Deserves is an interesting word and budgets in games also seem to have gone odd -- give me billions and the best people and you will get something special, however if billions and use of the best people will not make a financially viable product then you do not give it to me, as an investor you then get to figure out the right amount to pull something off. If piracy that you can not counter has such a deleterious effect upon what you can do then that sucks, still the case though.
I have seen some people say things like "I have a degree and so I deserve a job", I view a lot of this in much the same light.
This is all besides the point though. I will spin it another way -- I like the idea of remote control planes, especially if I can control them first person from a camera mounted on the thing and have actually played with some of it. In various countries around the world there are governments scrambling to make laws to stop it (or make you need enough tickets/paperwork that it becomes really hard), chances are at some point one will fall out of the sky, land on some toddler, kill them and then we will get some kneejerk laws as a result (despite all being less dangerous than eating sweets or something). Now it might be that I am falling into the "first they came for the ...." mindset but frankly the loss of such remote control planes would not really bother me, I would not go to bat for it, and I would find something else to do, I know full well though that for others it would effectively represent the end of a seriously enjoyable hobby for them. I fail then to see how something similar could not happen for some other people with computer games.

I do not know about specific instances but if a publisher sat in a meeting and attempted to account for some theoretical lost sales because of piracy and it helped tip the balance towards the "not a viable project" decision then that would have been the right decision to not make it, give or take the accuracy of the theoretical lost sales and future developments. Piracy exists, has for a long time as well, and will probably continue to exist, it is not like it appeared out of nowhere and suddenly grew to the extent that it ruined someone's day, though even then a competitor popping out before your product is made and shipped is always a risk/possibility you take. Equally I have no problem with second hand sales and actually find it quite aggravating when game dev types try some kind of not-logic to convince people it is bad, that and they managed to pull it off in the first place (I saw the early articles and laughed, and then it stuck).

Realistically the only ones I have proper issue with the were the "bad money management" stuff, you were just dangerously close to drawing lines in the sand and that is rarely a great thing to try to do in a moral debate so I thought I would try to provide some counters.




*my favourite example came out of the anti abortion world. Someone decides to give some money to a hospital under the condition that it is not used to, say, fund abortions and the like. Hospital says thank you very much, they buy optometry a new machine that goes ping and send the person that made a donation a shiny certificate saying all the people with the new machine that goes ping their patients now no longer have to worry about going blind, everybody is happy. In reality the machine that goes ping was always going to be purchased that year, however it was designated as "first priority if we have the money left over after whatever emergencies we have" (so about 99% chance it would have happened) and the old money then went and funded the shortfall in the abortion clinic. Such are the wonders of accounting. Perhaps not the most relevant to this but a nice worked example.[/url]
 
Leaving aside that theft of property and copyright infringement are two different concepts with wildly differing needs (the former requires some misdirection, speed and has not great consequences that are not unlikely, the latter requires no real effort, no real skills and is unlikely to see me up in front of the beak) I am not sure that even tracks there. Most have a limited amount of fun stuff money and well is, as the accountants say, fungible (what you do not spend on one thing you can spend on something else). Charities see something similar with this when you earmark money* or have percentages go to overhead or not ( http://www.sciencemag.org/content/346/6209/632 ).

Think of it as similar to "if the police can catch me then I do not deserve to be driving" and similar such things.

Yeah by most accounting logic the pirate now and pick up later model is not very sound at all. It was more that something may differ between "most will never pick up a legit copy" thing and reality.
Not all of the people who don't get a game are going to pirate it. I didn't get Madworld immediately because I didn't want to pay 49,98€ (GS price) for a game that was 2-3 hours long. Did I pirate it? No, I waited for a fair offer.

I have serious issues with the concept of genre, especially if you are going to try to classify things as broadly as "AAA" and "indy". It was not as much one game, just that your division was poor and that could have been an example, one of many, of that.
Many people go around whining how bad companies are and how good and full of Saints the Indie industry is, that's why I took that example. Just look at the hypocrisy of many users online saying they pirate Ubisoft "because it's Ubisoft", yet they got a copy of Surgeon Simulator full-price.

"Gaming industry is like any other industry", it is like any other entertainment industry. Deserves is an interesting word and budgets in games also seem to have gone odd -- give me billions and the best people and you will get something special, however if billions and use of the best people will not make a financially viable product then you do not give it to me, as an investor you then get to figure out the right amount to pull something off. If piracy that you can not counter has such a deleterious effect upon what you can do then that sucks, still the case though.
I have seen some people say things like "I have a degree and so I deserve a job", I view a lot of this in much the same light.
The same light would be "I did your work and so I deserve to be paid". Also, having a degree is not an investment because you don't lose anything and you don't need as much money as making a full game (in anywhere but the USA, anyway). Publishers invest money, they take the risk, and they deserve to be paid equally.
This is all besides the point though. I will spin it another way -- I like the idea of remote control planes, especially if I can control them first person from a camera mounted on the thing and have actually played with some of it. In various countries around the world there are governments scrambling to make laws to stop it (or make you need enough tickets/paperwork that it becomes really hard), chances are at some point one will fall out of the sky, land on some toddler, kill them and then we will get some kneejerk laws as a result (despite all being less dangerous than eating sweets or something). Now it might be that I am falling into the "first they came for the ...." mindset but frankly the loss of such remote control planes would not really bother me, I would not go to bat for it, and I would find something else to do, I know full well though that for others it would effectively represent the end of a seriously enjoyable hobby for them. I fail then to see how something similar could not happen for some other people with computer games.
...this makes no sense. How is a drone seen bad by people because of privacy issue related with stealing the selling of games?
I do not know about specific instances but if a publisher sat in a meeting and attempted to account for some theoretical lost sales because of piracy and it helped tip the balance towards the "not a viable project" decision then that would have been the right decision to not make it, give or take the accuracy of the theoretical lost sales and future developments. Piracy exists, has for a long time as well, and will probably continue to exist, it is not like it appeared out of nowhere and suddenly grew to the extent that it ruined someone's day, though even then a competitor popping out before your product is made and shipped is always a risk/possibility you take. Equally I have no problem with second hand sales and actually find it quite aggravating when game dev types try some kind of not-logic to convince people it is bad, that and they managed to pull it off in the first place (I saw the early articles and laughed, and then it stuck).
You know what the only viable projects are? Either branding a random game with a famous brand or continue making the same game with the same famous brand. That, or you have to be lucky that the internet people are so dumb that will make your game a meme everyone wants to buy. This is how not taking risks works, and it happens a lot already. And it sucks when a game that doesn't belong in a serie is suddenly there to guarantee sales, or how stupid games steal the light of other great games because internet said "leel it's funny XD".
Realistically the only ones I have proper issue with the were the "bad money management" stuff, you were just dangerously close to drawing lines in the sand and that is rarely a great thing to try to do in a moral debate so I thought I would try to provide some counters.
I don't get it.
 
Not all of the people who don't get a game are going to pirate it. I didn't get Madworld immediately because I didn't want to pay 49,98€ (GS price) for a game that was 2-3 hours long. Did I pirate it? No, I waited for a fair offer.


Many people go around whining how bad companies are and how good and full of Saints the Indie industry is, that's why I took that example. Just look at the hypocrisy of many users online saying they pirate Ubisoft "because it's Ubisoft", yet they got a copy of Surgeon Simulator full-price.


The same light would be "I did your work and so I deserve to be paid". Also, having a degree is not an investment because you don't lose anything and you don't need as much money as making a full game (in anywhere but the USA, anyway). Publishers invest money, they take the risk, and they deserve to be paid equally.

...this makes no sense. How is a drone seen bad by people because of privacy issue related with stealing the selling of games?

You know what the only viable projects are? Either branding a random game with a famous brand or continue making the same game with the same famous brand. That, or you have to be lucky that the internet people are so dumb that will make your game a meme everyone wants to buy. This is how not taking risks works, and it happens a lot already. And it sucks when a game that doesn't belong in a serie is suddenly there to guarantee sales, or how stupid games steal the light of other great games because internet said "leel it's funny XD".

I don't get it.

That one is up to you then, I can see others taking a more functional approach.

It does seem to be an odd mindset, nor one I share or was trying to extol the virtues of. Everybody is an abusive arsehole and I am very much for equal opportunity offending.

If that is following on from above then we already covered that. It probably also comes back around to the "you want to get paid? Make me." thing from before. Also that is not quite what I was trying to say -- you get what the market gives you, hopefully this is more than you put in and within the realms of your reasonable predictions.

I was not considering the privacy nonsense as much as the safety/magically cooked up pilot licenses that they appear to get tagged with. Anyway it was an example of a enjoyable hobby but not one I care all that much about; you started out trying to debunk the "I have more important hobbies than games, therefore I do not feel the need to spring for games" thing some people say. I was trying to point out that it is entirely possible to have a hobby, and indeed have games as that hobby, that it is such a trifling fraction of your time that whatever else you do could rise up to fill the gap. With that in place it becomes easy enough to say "it is there so I will take it, however if it stops being there (say because everybody took it) then meh, I have better things to be doing anyway". Not a great excuse for anything, and indeed I have never really seen the need to justify things, but not one completely devoid of logic.

Here I thought I was being bitter, cynical and brutally pragmatic. I think you are seeing the collision between art and the financially viable, and sadly for games the big stuff does not seem to even have anything like being able to make Oscar bait or fund things via film/culture councils (though there are increasing amounts of the latter for games).

I was mainly saying that you tried to debunk a list of the common reasons/justification you have heard for piracy, I was offering some counters to those. I did not necessarily 100% stand behind the counters, I was more doing the devil's advocate bit.
 
Actually I pirate games that I can't afford , for example arcade games that costs a LOT of money (NeoGeo for example but one day... one day I will have that great piece of hardware ).
I pirate japanese games that never come over here or games that I'm unsure to buy or not (but nowdays there are demos so it is partially solved this issue for me ) and i want to experience some more longer gameplay.
I pirate also some older rare games that a the time I haven't the opportunity to buy, but of course if then they'll do a remake I'll buy it (majora's mask 3D is a good example for me ).

Otherwise I try to buy all the games from the publisher i want to support ,in my case most arcade porting such as figthing games , SHMUPS , puzzle games , rhythm games and in general some niche productions that needs some money to live on.
 
Because I can, and who even has the money for games? I'm not Bill Gates.

I'd rather spend it on other stuff, like hardware.

No bs excuse here.
 
LOL. ironic post considering MAJORAS MASK is right around the corner.

how many of the people who are buying 3DS majoras mask, actually bought N64 majoras mask 15 years ago brand new.

point=invalidated
 
Are you saying that, if you had the chance to steal a coke while buying junk food, you'd do that?

I don't get what you were trying to say here.

Offers exist to appeal those who weren't considering to play the game immediately. By pirating, you are at the same level as those who got their game in the same time, yet you didn't pay it. It's like saying "I'm buying this phone that just came out but I will pay it when I find offers around". It makes no sense.

You know, I remember when Vision GT was just announced and every videogame magazine I used to buy at that time said how this was a "demo of a demo", and everyone I knew with a PS3 knew that. You make it sound like Prologue was a full-priced demo and no one knew that, despite everyone knowing every GT game outside GT5 for the PS3 was not going to be the real deal.
That thing aside, how does one game justify you to pirate every AAA title? And to give credit to a genre that has been exploited worse than any other commercial company has?

Gaming industry is like any other industry. It's not a second-class economy that deserves their piracy "just because it's easy". It is made from hard workers who have a job to take care of.

...are you implying that the game shouldn't have been made because of the piracy?
As for the used market, I've always believed it as the real "I don't like what you did, I want (part of) my money back". If you sell a game it's because you didn't like it enough to justify the price and try to cut down the cost. It balances the market the way it should be.


Are you saying that, if you had the chance to steal a coke while buying junk food, you'd do that?If I could clone the version of that coke without having to remove it from it spot, creating that exact same coke on my table, Yeah, Hell I would.Piracy != Stealing

It's like saying "I'm buying this phone that just came out but I will pay it when I find offers around"
Yeah.. How is that not smart? It saves you money, and the company won't get any less then what they sold it for.. Stores buy their copies from the company at a certain price.. Stores then UP that price to get a margin of profit on that.., I couldn't care less about physical stores for digital stuff.

how does one game justify you to pirate every AAA title? And to give credit to a genre that has been exploited worse than any other commercial company has?The way they treat games is unreasonable.. Releasing games with still plenty of bugs (and most of the time obvious) or with horrible performance (or DRM), or just plain milking a title, or releasing Day One or On-Disc DLC. Companies that do this DESERVE their games to be pirated.. BUT that doesn't mean that game shouldn't go un-enjoyed, Pirates often go with less problems then the people who got it legit. In the rare occasion I do buy a game thats singleplayer (I buy multiplayer games because well.. You can't really pirate them and play on legit servers) I often install the crack over it anyways to avoid all DRM. I could go on about this but well I'll stop here.

Games are an art, it's meant to be enjoyed. Even though the parents might be huge bastards.

The last part is just plain bullshit, I won't even go on and try to fix it with arguments, I've presented enough already.
 
The way they treat games is unreasonable.. Releasing games with still plenty of bugs (and most of the time obvious) or with horrible performance (or DRM), or just plain milking a title, or releasing Day One or On-Disc DLC. Companies that do this DESERVE their games to be pirated..

I'd put the companies in the same group as the cartoonists that dare to draw images of the Prophet. They DESERVE to pay for what they've done, in one way or another.

Now seriously, you think you're entitled to something just because you don't approve their practices. The excuses some pirates give are BS.
 
I'd put the companies in the same group as the cartoonists that dare to draw images of the Prophet. They DESERVE to pay for what they've done, in one way or another.

Now seriously, you think you're entitled to something just because you don't approve their practices. The excuses some pirates give are BS.

1. religion is bullshit, mohammed can go and die, and so can jesus, freedom of speech and freedom to out yourself it's whats it called and get fucking over it, its a cartoon its not real same shit as gamergate.

2. you didnt read the last part of that argument.
 

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