Hardware Linux continues to resent me, I guess

[codezer0]

Preface: For as long as I've had a PC that could run games, any PC that I use regularly (and/or is the main pc) has a sound card in it of some type. And before someone chimes in with "use a DAC," "use the GPU audio," I need you to finish reading and withhold that for me a hot moment.

Context: Presently across as many systems, I have a variety of Creative sound cards, ranging from the Audigy series (presently a 2 in my oldest retro PC to an Rx in my main) and several iterations of the X-Fi in PCI and PCI Express form.

In my current main PC, I use the analog 7.1 out, to feed a set of Razer Tiamat 7.1v2 headset(s), then pass through to 5.1 speakers. I'm grateful that for the size of my noggin, the tiamats fit... Barely, but well enough if I need to be quiet for the wife.

Put bluntly, in all those years, Linux and I... Have not gotten along. The early versions had a frustrating habit where all troubleshooting just eventually led to the only step being *always* recompile the kernel, and too many times staring at a command prompt that made zero sense to me. Credit where it's due, Linux in usability has come a decent way, but God it still has its unsolved problems. Namely... Sound. Or rather, lack thereof.

Every zealot and their dog says that Linux has drivers in the kernel now. And when I boot up any live eval distribution you can name, I get no sound whatsoever. Best case is, it lists the sound card. It lists it as the device in use. It gives me a control panel making me think it will be usable. But I can't get sound, at all. No media, no offline music, not even the basic testing sounds.

To date, the only *nix anything that hasn't given me constant rage fits like this, is still MacOS. But Tim Cook's leadership is off its rocker if he thinks I'm going to spend as much as he's asking, for hardware that is e-waste the minute it leaves the factory. I firmly hold the belief that bro shifted to arm entirely to spite the hackintosh method of things. Moving on...

"But why not use GPU audio?" Because GPU audio won't output to my headset or speakers. And I will never have the space or money to buy a receiver and the small army of additional cables needed to have that output to normal speakers or the headset in question.

"Why not buy a DAC?". BY ALL MEANS, show me a DAC on the market that (on Windows) supports the Creative ALchemy program, and can output analog 7.1. I've yet to see it, at any price. In as long keeping a lookout, I can only conclude that a DAC as capable has yet to exist.

It's just frustrating because between the Audigy and X-Fi sound card lines, that means the Linux community has had *TWENTY YEARS* and counting and still hasn't got it right. Because every recommended distro I've been referred to, still won't work correctly. Like, I can't even move on to test capture cards or games because this issue is the equivalent to a game breaking bug for me.

 

[a_username_that_is_cool]

if you don't know how to use a command terminal (maybe you do, but you don't understand how to compile the kernel) then linux probably isn't for you; also i can't really tell the point of all this? why are you doing all these passthroughs

 

[codezer0]

if you don't know how to use a command terminal (maybe you do, but you don't understand how to compile the kernel) then linux probably isn't for you; also i can't really tell the point of all this? why are you doing all these passthroughs

I hate, the command line. Doesn't matter if it's DOS, Linux or Macintosh for that matter.

That said, I also don't like the obnoxious push towards "AI" even in source code. And steam has already made it difficult by refusing to let me reinstall the games that were made for environments like XP and maybe Windows 7. It's only a matter of time before they block windows 10, as well. Thus, it is forcing me to give Linux another hard, sobering look.

A computer that can't game, is a computer that is completely useless to me. And while I don't claim to be some kind of audiophile demanding $2000+ per speaker, I do expect a certain correctness to the audio. So always came to lean on EAX. The *good* era of star wars games comes to mind. Kotor without eax just sounds broken, and realtek for all its bragging of specs and fidelity, hasn't been satisfactory since the Nvidia sound storm on original Nforce chipsets.

It would help me actually give Linux a chance if it would let me actually use my audio. But it's actively fighting me. FOR TWENTY YEARS at this point, and counting.

 

[VinsCool]

Linux being stupid most likely.
Using a FiiO USB DAC personally and this thing works wonderfully, it would normally require drivers being installed on Windows yet it works out of the box on Linux so I really can't complain about it, lol

 

[linuxares]

Hmm... I use a very simplsitic DAC, a Xenor 7 MKII, and it work out of the box. (To be fair, I haven't tested the mic in Linux).
I however run bleeding edge distro (CachyOS) so might have the drivers built in?

 

[Hippocampus_Hamster]

Quick search seems to show that Creative Labs's cards' features are locked in software, either on the card itself or on the PC. And since CL apparently doesn't make Linux drivers, that means that beyond old cards that have been cracked already (like the SoundBlaster) you may just be SOL. Might have to find another brand of sound cards to use for Linux.

 

[codezer0]

Quick search seems to show that Creative Labs's cards' features are locked in software, either on the card itself or on the PC. And since CL apparently doesn't make Linux drivers, that means that beyond old cards that have been cracked already (like the SoundBlaster) you may just be SOL. Might have to find another brand of sound cards to use for Linux.

Were that to be the case, then why would it tease me by correctly detecting the sound card and giving me a control panel for it? That's the other point I take issue with. If it's known to be broken or incompatible, I'd almost rather the driver(s) just not be included.

 

[Hippocampus_Hamster]

Were that to be the case, then why would it tease me by correctly detecting the sound card and giving me a control panel for it? That's the other point I take issue with. If it's known to be broken or incompatible, I'd almost rather the driver(s) just not be included.

Man, I don't know. It sucks but this is how it is, and it probably won't change anytime soon because of company policy and the threat of being sued if someone tried to, even for FOSS drivers.

Dunno how many people - audiophiles and professionals excluded - use separate sound cards anymore, since 99.999% of all CONSUMEr motherboards come with a built-in DAC and ports for up to 7.1 audio. Even if its kinda crap, it does the job for most of us. I'm sorry the situation seems bleak with your current hardware.

 

[tech3475]

Were that to be the case, then why would it tease me by correctly detecting the sound card and giving me a control panel for it? That's the other point I take issue with. If it's known to be broken or incompatible, I'd almost rather the driver(s) just not be included.

Hang on, does the sound card work without the headphones?

 

[codezer0]

Hang on, does the sound card work without the headphones?

The headset in question is to be able to do the 7.1 surround audio. However, even with its healthy size, I can only wear it for so long before I have to take it off. The control module it employs then has a one-button passthrough to just pass the analog audio out to my speakers, on my main pc.

I've literally not found a single headset before, or since, that's been able to replicate that level of positional fidelity, and doesn't just try to ruin the result by proprietary drivers or other crap. Speaks much to the bygone era of Razer, whose present day can't seem to make a single notebook correctly (see Reddit, GN, JTC, et al).

 

[bonkmaykr]

I see everyone here blaming Linux the kernel but nobody is talking about the actual audio software you are using. Base ALSA, OSS (probably not), Pulse, Pipewire, JACK?? Configuration steps you've tried? Linux does not produce sound, it provides the device interfaces that are necessary to produce sound. Management of the sound devices is done elsewhere and this is where it typically breaks. ALSA is the audio interface provided by Linux and 99% of the time a mixer daemon sits on top of this.

When you think like a Windows user "It's just the OS" and not "What part of it?", you will be running in circles.

 

[Earthshine]

You forgot to include an option for 'Fuck Linux'.

 

[Kioku]

Linux being stupid most likely.
Using a FiiO USB DAC personally and this thing works wonderfully, it would normally require drivers being installed on Windows yet it works out of the box on Linux so I really can't complain about it, lol

Fiio K5 Pro here. Works great on Linux.

Haven't had much luck with these big name brands though. Makes me sad.

 

[codezer0]

I see everyone here blaming Linux the kernel but nobody is talking about the actual audio software you are using. Base ALSA, OSS (probably not), Pulse, Pipewire, JACK?? Configuration steps you've tried? Linux does not produce sound, it provides the device interfaces that are necessary to produce sound. Management of the sound devices is done elsewhere and this is where it typically breaks. ALSA is the audio interface provided by Linux and 99% of the time a mixer daemon sits on top of this.

When you think like a Windows user "It's just the OS" and not "What part of it?", you will be running in circles.

Sir, not to denigrate anything here, but I have absolutely no idea what any of what you said is, or means.

It's not like it's the first time I'd been exposed to Linux. But Linux and I don't get along. I'd been around long enough where I've had Linux live evals that refused to give me anything BUT a command line because anything resembling a GUI would just instantly crash out. Or like my web server class, where the default behavior of the Linux system was to wipe/corrupt *EVERYONE'S* hard drive or USB drive on eject; it became so much of a problem that the professor of the class had to do some kind of script to auto save our work in the course so we wouldn't be putting our precious storage at risk every single day.

All I CAN do at this time is, boot up the thing, check if components are detected properly, and test. I haven't even gotten to the point of an install, let alone installing *a game,* because of something so fundamental flat out not working. Why it does, or does not, doesn't make any difference. It's the fact that it isn't, that is a red flag level of bug to me.

 

[diggeloid]

Idk anything about sound cards, I just use either bluetooth headphones or the 3.5mm jack in the back. Works for me lol.

But skimming through this it seems like you should be posting questions like this in the support forum for whatever distro you're using. LInux isn't an operating system, it's a kernel. The part that's breaking for you is likely in the operating system (aka the distro you're trying to use). If your sound card is supported, the answer for how to get it working will depend on the distro. They all ship different software and all configure it differently; there's no universal solution here.

 

[Deleted member 702243]

I don't see why it wouldn't work though?

https://www.ott.net/audigy-setup/

maybe relevant: "S/PDIF Optical Raw Needs to be muted to get a signal on the Headphones / Front jack and on the Optical output"

https://forum.zorin.com/t/how-to-get-a-soundblaster-audigy-rx-to-work-in-your-system/1231

shame relevant information could have been found in 5 minutes if anyone here actually came in with the intent to help, instead of coming in just for the opportunity to post a five minute quip

https://docs.slackware.com/howtos:hardware:soundblaster-live-5.1

https://wiki.debian.org/snd-emu10k1

alsa driver, sounds like if your live environment doesn't include alsa then it's no surprise it wouldnt work. but I wouldnt think any distro doesnt have alsa in the live environment (well, of those that have a graphical live environment, at least)

 

[bonkmaykr]

Sir, not to denigrate anything here, but I have absolutely no idea what any of what you said is, or means.

With all due respect this demonstrates my point, you haven't looked deep into this to really call it quits or settle on an opinion. If you did some googling in a serious attempt to fix the problem you're bound to come across at the very least some mention of Pulse or Pipewire. Even if Linux is doomed to never support your sound card you could at least find out why, is it Creative's lack of support, is it a bug, what could you do about it? We all got comfortable with Linux by doing this. When something is not working you are expected to either fix it yourself or help others fix it with you. I totally understand your frustration but simply complaining isn't an effective strategy. This isn't even just a Linux thing but it applies to computing or any machine in general.

Like diggeloid said, if you go to the forum dedicated to your distribution you're bound to get better answers, that's already a good start. There are plenty of people there who are experts in your Linux distro and can make safe assumptions about how it works, they can probably give you some guidance better than we can. When you post to a more generic forum we have no idea what your configuration might be so it's even more up to you to give us clues than usual.

Hippocampus_Hampster did give us an answer, a lot of times answers aren't THAT easy to find sans context...

Why it does, or does not, doesn't make any difference. It's the fact that it isn't, that is a red flag level of bug to me.

Unfortunately, it does make a difference.

An operating system is just a series of inter-communicating components besides just the kernel. Many of these are from completely different developers even on Windows or MacOS.

If Creative doesn't provide a good sound driver for Linux, that's not a bug.

Now if the sound card is fully supported just fine and it's your audio daemon that's broken, that's a bug you report to that team, not Linux.

And this is why it's important to know what distro you have, what settings you changed, etc. You aren't just running Linux, when we hear you're using Linux we don't know what that means. An OS is a complete system that can become all sorts of things.

 

[codezer0]

One thing I'm just genuinely sick and tired of, is the Linux fanboys yelling to the clouds about how easy Linux is to use, how well it performs. But then the first moment there's anything wrong, I'm just supposed to automatically stare at a command line for 10+ hours until frustration has me nuke the drive/install altogether. If the first words out of anyone are "open up terminal," I'm already tuning out, it's a lost cause to me. It's not a Linux exclusive thing, either; I hate the command line of DOS and Mac OS just as much. If anything, I only hate the command line in Linux more because none of the commands make any sense at all.

If IBM were allowed to reclaim the PC standard, we'd still be staring at a command line in the present year. The closest thing to gaming the platform would have, is ranked competitive Microsoft Excel, let's be perfectly clear.

As it is, the Audigy and X-Fi sound card lineups together, have existed for 20 years, starting with the original Audigy in the early 2000's. Yet apparently the only sound that works is Realtek? The only video that works is intel onboard? Eff outta here with that. Despite what Creative or Microsoft want to try on their ends, one Chinese dude (Daniel K) managed to solve the sound situation with their driver (re)pack covering *all* models of Audigy or X-Fi respectively, all the way up to Windows 11.

However, first thing that went too far is that Windows 11 Update that bricked the SSD in my notebook, which can't work on anything older. Now based on other lists, the SSD in the desktop I was using as a test mule for the sound cards in 11 and now Linux, would also be affected. Only reason I can think why it isn't, is just the fact that I've made a point to keep it offline and that it hasn't received that brick code from Microsoft. I definitely don't have the money or the time to deal with replacing yet another dead SSD, on a pc that isn't even my main pc anymore.

At the moment, the only "test mule" I can spare for testing out Linux, is the build I've nicknamed Arceus.

• i9 9900K
• MSI z390 Gaming Plus
• 64GB RAM
• Mushkin Pilot-E 2tb
• Radeon VII
• X-Fi Titanium

That said, one thing I did forget to share, and one that does make me feel a bit dumb as I type this. In short, while trying out other things, I was finding that my trackball's left button was just completely dead. So unfortunately will need to find another replacement m570 or similar. Kinda need a wireless trackball since the "desk" it's on doesn't really have enough space for a comfortable experience with a normal mouse. While I was trying to fish around in the back of the tower to try and find where the spare USB port on the back of the monitor it's attached to was at for the stand-in mouse, I peer down the back of the tower and notice that the green port on the back of the X-Fi was still free. Yet somehow this was never a problem in Windows? Still, swap the speaker connector over, and everything still worked perfectly fine in the Windows install.

Knowing my tolerance for the command line, I was leaning towards either linux mint or bazzite, in part to have something close to a trouble free experience; the latter since it supposedly takes after the SteamOS used for the steam deck, where stuff like KOTOR is known to work. Anyways, reflash a USB with bazzite, boot up the live eval to sanity check, and *now* I am at least getting test sounds.

If it really was that simple, I still can't fathom how it wasn't a problem in Windows. Though by then it was stupid late, and didn't have time to proceed or pull the trigger with an install.

 

[bonkmaykr]

In the time you wrote the two rants in this thread you could've had it fixed already, had you spent that time dropping clues, instead of complaining about the elitists that aren't here and having to read for "10+ hours". When you assume that things are built to work against you, it will inevitably appear that they are. See how long it took? Nobody's asking you to take apart the whole thing and perform a college study on it.

 

[codezer0]

The sound never not worked in Windows when testing. Like, bruh.