Hacking Homebrew Possebilities

[machomuu]

Theres a difference between emulation which is what you are refering to and virtualization which is what the psp uses to play psx games.

Virtualization is when your device has the exact same/similar hardware needed to run what ever your running natively with out that much extra coding.

Emulation is a whole different matter where it uses software to EMULATE the components needed for the program to run.

Emulating alone takes up a huge amount of system resources and LOTS of coding so even though the 3DS may be more powerful than the psp the 3DS is not made up of mostly psone guts like the psp is.

Correct me if im wrong.

The PS3 is WAAAAAY more powerful than the ps2 but doesnt it still have trouble playing ps2 games? Thats because it uses nearly completely different hardware than the ps2 with the exception of CERTAIN early release ps3's that had both ps3 hardware and the ps2 hardware needed for the games to run.

Proof to my point

But then again we still have to wait for it to be HACKED in the first place to see whether or not it will be able to both emulate components and use them while not overloading the cpu and getting a decent framerate/speed

In that case we still can't deem it an impossibility.

 

[ManFranceGermany]

the wii and psp have a psx emulator and the 3ds is stronger than those 2 so why not

lol
the wii is way more powerful than the 3ds.
the only thing it has more is ram, but this 3ds toshiba ram is way more slower than the ram of the wii.
and don;t get me wrong, but a dual core 266 MHz ARM11 has no chance against IBM Power architecture.

and about being more powerful than psp, well, maybe a bit, but no huge leap.

 

[urisma]

Sergster is correct about emulation and virtualization, but allow me to clarify some points.

The PSP uses a mix of virtualization and emulation to run PSX games. True virtualization requires complete compatibility between the emulated target architecture and host architecture. For example, Windows can be virtualized on most any x86 platform since it has complete compatibility with it. The PSX and PSP are a little different. The PSX and PSP do share very similar CPU cores, with the PSP's being backward compatible for most intents and purposes. This doesn't mean you can slap a PSX program on your PSP and expect it to run without any changes. The PSP would have to emulate system calls (in a low or high level manner, doesn't matter as far as the definition goes) since they cannot be virtualized. For example, a PSX program may write to an arbitrary address and expect some sort of result. This exact same functionality probably isn't present in the PSP, and so would have to be emulated, not virtualized, accordingly.

What part of running PSX games on a PSP is virtualization? It's tough to say without looking at the code (and I'm too lazy to look through popsloader disassemblies), but I would think that most CPU functionality (ALU, FPU, VFPU? I think) could be virtualized (I.E. run the code as if it's native code). It would have to be modified on the fly to address memory access and R3000A (PSX processor) specific features. A dynarec probably exists that utilizes direct code execution. I'll try and explain it basically. The emulator inspects every target instruction before execution (so the PSX emulator in the PSP) to determine what it does. Memory addressing instructions would have to be changed, but perhaps an instruction like "SLL %1,%2,%3" in the PSX program could be analyzed and determined that it could be executed as is, without modification (This would require register mapping to be the exact same, which probably wouldn't happen for emulator optimization reasons). Once the instruction is analyzed and determined to be OK for execution, it's simply written into the dynamically generated code buffer, waiting to be executed.

Oh, and I think the PSP is more powerful than the 3DS. 2x 333 mhz MIPS processors plus a VFPU > 2x 266 mhz ARM cores + maybe a VFPU. It lacks in RAM space, but that really isn't a big deal. Of course the media engine on the PSP doesn't really have a programming interface and thus is a PITA to program for, but it's still theoretically more powerful.

 

[RDilus]

ok some comparair to proof that the 3DS can run psx emu
we all know so not i dont care really you need a 10 time stronger machine to emulate a other machine

Hardware list
CPU:
3DS - 2x ARM11 @ 266Mhz = 532Mhz rated
PSX - 32 Bit R3000A from MIPS(SGI) and LSI Logic Technologies @ 33Mhz
Conclusion the cpu could be fully emulated without a problem at all 10x33Mhz = 333 because 3DS have 2 cores of 266 Mhz each core can handle 166Mhz so you will have 100Mhz each core over to get some more power out of it

GPU:
3DS - Digital Media Professionals PICA200 @ ??? (could be 100 200 or 400Mhz)
PSX - GFX processor unit @ ???
Conclusion after looking at both specs the 3DS nailed the PSX GPU
so it can run it with simple easy without any harm

RAM:
3DS - 128MB FCRAM
PSX - 2MB
Conclusion no comments on this one

I think the hardest thing te get working is the sound on it

 

[sergster1]

ok some comparair to proof that the 3DS can run psx emu
we all know so not i dont care really you need a 10 time stronger machine to emulate a other machine

Hardware list
CPU:
3DS - 2x ARM11 @ 266Mhz = 532Mhz rated
PSX - 32 Bit R3000A from MIPS(SGI) and LSI Logic Technologies @ 33Mhz
Conclusion the cpu could be fully emulated without a problem at all 10x33Mhz = 333 because 3DS have 2 cores of 266 Mhz each core can handle 166Mhz so you will have 100Mhz each core over to get some more power out of it

GPU:
3DS - Digital Media Professionals PICA200 @ ??? (could be 100 200 or 400Mhz)
PSX - GFX processor unit @ ???
Conclusion after looking at both specs the 3DS nailed the PSX GPU
so it can run it with simple easy without any harm

RAM:
3DS - 128MB FCRAM
PSX - 2MB
Conclusion no comments on this one

I think the hardest thing te get working is the sound on it

Thats all nice but the thing is.. can someone CODE the emulator with few enough threads so that it will work but not lag like hell? And again. I reiterate. This is just conjecture we need to see it HACKED first before we even make these kind of assumptions. Plus we dont know if it can handle emulating the components and using them at the same time.

Ohh and ursima hit the target with his explanation

If your gonna compare specs between those to allow me to compare these specs.

CPU:
PS3 3.2 GHz Cell Broadband Engine with 1 PPE & 7 SPEs
PS2 128-bit Emotion Engine clocked at 294.912 MHz (launch), 299 MHz (newer models)

Ram:
PS3 256 MB system and 256 MB video (512 shared in all)
PS2 32 MB of Direct RAMBUS or RDRAM

GPU:
PS3 550 MHz NVIDIA/SCEI RSX Reality Synthesizer
PS2 Graphics Synthesizer clocked at 147.456 MHz

The PS3 should EASILY be able to emulate a PS2 with no problem but it doesn't. Just cause its 10x more powerful (the gpu doesnt need to be that much more powerful for emulation only the ram and cpu) doesnt mean it will emulate easily.

AND BOTH ARE MADE BY SONY. They should know EXACTLY what they need for emulation.

 

[Keva]

I dunno about you guys but I just want a program that goes "BOOP!" every few seconds.

 

[RDilus]

i am sure the 3DS could handle a psx emu but some games wont work
like said in my other post

 

[heartgold]

the wii and psp have a psx emulator and the 3ds is stronger than those 2 so why not

lol
the wii is way more powerful than the 3ds.
the only thing it has more is ram, but this 3ds toshiba ram is way more slower than the ram of the wii.
and don;t get me wrong, but a dual core 266 MHz ARM11 has no chance against IBM Power architecture.

and about being more powerful than psp, well, maybe a bit, but no huge leap.

You been sleeping under the rock or what. 3DS has FCram which matches the performance of DDR3 memory.

 

[_Chaz_]

My Top Five:

1. SNES emulator (no reason it shouldn't be far better than SNEmulDS)
2. NES emulator
3. Game Boy Color/Advance emulator
4. Video Chat application
5. 3D video player

 

[DJ91990]

I second the 3D p0rn! LOL
3D HENTAI NOWZ! ROFL
Also a Youtube App and Flash App!

 

[Generation 16]

1.GBA Emulator
2.Better Web Browser
3.SNES Emulator
4.AVI/MKV Player
5.A Sequel to Still Alive DS which incorporates Portal 2 elements.

 

[Evo.lve]

believe me 3DS is strong enough to run psx games not all ofcourse but some will do
You would know how? Care to explain? Maybe you've got a dev kit or something?

Nah, didn't think so.

QUOTE(Generation 16 @ Jul 6 2011, 04:10 PM) 4.a Homebrew which allows you to run NDS homebrew, such as lameboy, nesds, etc, etc

It's called a flashcart.

 

[Deleted-236924]

Why do people say PSX when referring to the PS1?
That is a PSX

 

[RDilus]

believe me 3DS is strong enough to run psx games not all ofcourse but some will do

You would know how? Care to explain? Maybe you've got a dev kit or something?

Nah, didn't think so.

first of all i never say i gonna make it did i
second the power of the 3DS is strong enough to handle it even the dev blueshogun96 (this dude still woking on his xbox emulator) says it possible but would be hard to create one

and remember the psx emu wasnt that good on the psp when the first release was we all know that
so i still believe that 3DS can do it better then a psp

 

[Evo.lve]

believe me 3DS is strong enough to run psx games not all ofcourse but some will do

You would know how? Care to explain? Maybe you've got a dev kit or something?

Nah, didn't think so.

first of all i never say i gonna make it did i
second the power of the 3DS is strong enough to handle it even the dev blueshogun96 (this dude still woking on his xbox emulator) says it possible but would be hard to create one

and remember the psx emu wasnt that good on the psp when the first release was we all know that
so i still believe that 3DS can do it better then a psp

The PSP, while technically (most probably) weaker than a 3DS, has the following benefits regarding PS1 emulation:

a) Sony has unrestricted access to any part of anything regarding the PS1, whereas any Nintendo employee/homebrew coder does not
b) The architecture of the two are almost identical - both run MIPS, buncha other things.

GG.

 

[urisma]

believe me 3DS is strong enough to run psx games not all ofcourse but some will do
You would know how? Care to explain? Maybe you've got a dev kit or something?

Nah, didn't think so.

QUOTE(Generation 16 @ Jul 6 2011, 04:10 PM) 4.a Homebrew which allows you to run NDS homebrew, such as lameboy, nesds, etc, etc

It's called a flashcart.

A dev kit still wouldn't help

Anyway, I doubt Sony utilized much of their private info in making their PSX emulator on the PSP. I've heard it barely has 30% compatibility. Not sure if this is true, but I believe epsxe has much better compatibility. And I think the MIPS core is the only thing similar between the PSX and the PSP. Coming to emulation, that is a big similarity, but all the system calls and such still have to be emulated. Plus the architectural similarities wouldn't be all that helpful unless the PSP uses a very clever type of virtualization. I have no clue how much virtualization the PSP uses vs actual CPU emulation, but the similar architectures wouldn't be all that helpful.

Oh and I think the PSP is more powerful than the 3DS. Processor wise at least. Not sure about the GPU portion though.

 

[pachura]

Please stop comparing PSP to 3DS. No one knows what's exactly powering 3DS and Nintendo will not willingly disclose this information.
Granted, 3DS has shaders and twice as much RAM, but that's about everything we could be sure of.

 

[RDilus]

Oh and I think the PSP is more powerful than the 3DS. Processor wise at least. Not sure about the GPU portion though.

well i thing the gpu is stronger and better for brews because it support OpenGL ES 1.1 it even support DX8 not 3ds gonna use it but ok
we can do alot with OpenGL ES it is gonna make it more easy for the devs to write a propper gfx plugin or how the hell you name it
i dont know how much nintendo set the gpu on because it can be between 100 and 400 who gonna tell us and how we gonna see it also someting we dont know yet

 

[dolpsdw]

i think that dstwo could run psp games but the provlems was in the resolution, in ds you can not resize to a smaller resolution, you can only zoom, thats cause you can emule snes etc...

 

[urisma]

i think that dstwo could run psp games but the provlems was in the resolution, in ds you can not resize to a smaller resolution, you can only zoom, thats cause you can emule snes etc...

No. The dstwo has a 400 mhz MIPS core, which I think runs the MIPS IV instruction set and maybe 16 mb of RAM. Can't remember if it has increased RAM. The PSP has 2 333 mhz MIPS cores + a GPU running at 166 mhz + a 128 register VFPU and 32 mb of RAM.