Hacking Disc Dye

[docoweatpie]

I’ve been holding back from burning backup games for quite some time to find the best way to record blank media. So I heard from many for which recommend DVD recordable brands to get, what speed to burn and what necessary software to use. However, I never saw anyone mentioned about dyes or making a thread about it. So here I’m making a thread about disc dyes and share my knowledge from what I gathered. There are generally 3 kinds of dyes: Phthalocyanine, Azo and Cyanine.

Phthalocyanine dye is the most expensive and supposedly the best. I’ve read many articles, and most of them tell what the ideal speed to burn a phthalocyanine dye disc. There’s a mixed answer between burning it slower or faster. So far, many suggested burning it at a faster speed. In my opinion, I think it’s best to use a speed error test program, such as Nero CD-DVD Speed, DVDInfo Pro or KProbe, to find the best speed with least errors for you. In fact, I highly recommend people to use these programs when recording their blank media. Phthalocyanine is very stable and can typically last for 100-200+ years. They are not as resistant to ultraviolet rays when comparing to azo, but they are more than to cyanine. Phthalocyanine dye has the highest reflectivity of all dyes.

Azo can last for about 50-100+ years. They are pretty stable, but not as much compare to phthalocyanine dye. They resist the most UV rays of all three dyes. Their reflectivity is just below of phthalocyanine dye, while higher than cyanine dye.

Cyanine last for 20-50+ years. They are more sensitive to UV rays, the least stable, and have the lowest reflectivity of all three dyes. However, company such as Taiyo Yuden, famous for making the world’s first CD-R, modified their formula to improve their quality for better reading performance and longevity. The improved quality is said to be near equal to azo and phthalocyanine dye.

Each dye has different color. Phthalocyanine is transparent, azo is blue, and cyanine is green. However, note that the combination with the reflective layer shows a different color, and some manufacturer purposely add different colors to "trick" the consumers. You can use programs like DVD Identifier, Nero CD-DVD Speed or DVDInfo Pro to read the dye manufacturer. However, if you want to identify the dye without opening the package, then you'll have to read the package carefully.


Reflective Layer
Reflective Layer is the metallic layer above the dye layer. It’s used for reflecting the laser of the reading assembly to which the disc will be played. There are typically 3 kinds of color for the reflective layer: gold, silver, and gold & silver hybrid.

Now, some may say gold layer is the best, but I wouldn’t exactly say this is true. It’s definitely the most expensive. Unlike silver, gold does not rust when it is exposed to oxygen and moisture, thus it extends the lifetime of the recordable media. The problem about gold layer is that when the laser hit the layer, the laser changes to a different color, which most players and DVD drive cannot read this color shift.

Silver reflective layer is highly reflective and compatible to many DVD drive and players. Silver can erode, which causes data loss, therefore the longevity is not as high as gold reflective layer.

Gold & silver hybrid reflective layer brings maximum longevity and superior readability standards. As good as it sounds, I personally do not know if the gold affects the silver’s readability.


Reference
digitalFAQ - Blank DVD Media Quality Guide
TechLore - Understanding Blank Write-Once CD & DVD Media
Some General Information about DVDs
CD Media World - CD Dye
The Best Brands of CD-R Discs for Long-Term Data Storage
Steve's Digicams - CDR Media Information
CNET Reviews - CD-R Media: Testing for Quality - Disc anatomy 101

 

[FamineMK]

extremely interesting... Good research and thanx for sharing.

 

[kashin]

Thanks for sharing, learned some new things today.

 

[vegeta4ss]

hey! this is good news for me. I was worrying the other day about re-encoding my growing dvd collection. Now I know I have at least 20 years to do it, instead of 10 like I was originally led to believe.

 

[kobykaan]

However, company such as Taiyo Yuden, famous for making the world’s first CD-R,

I think you will find it was PHILLIPS & SONY that made the FIRST CDR they INVENTED IT! in 1988

Cyanine dye CD-Rs were the earliest ones developed, and their formulation is patented by Taiyo Yuden.

Taiyo Yuden only formulated/patented the DYE!

from the cdr wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R

QUOTE

. The quality of the disc is also not only dependent on the dye used, it is also influenced by sealing, the top layer, the reflective layer, and the polycarbonate. Simply choosing a disc based on its dye type may be problematic. Furthermore, correct power calibration of the laser in the writer, as well as correct timing of the laser pulses, stable disc speed, etc., is critical to not only the immediate readability but the longevity of the recorded disc, so for archiving it is important to have not only a high quality disc but a high quality writer. In fact, a high quality writer may produce adequate results with medium quality media, but high quality media cannot compensate for a mediocre writer, and discs written by such a writer cannot achieve their maximum potential archival lifetime.

 

[Deleted User]

how do you find out what dye your disc has, whether its gold, silver or both?
just looking at it?

 

[docoweatpie]

However, company such as Taiyo Yuden, famous for making the world’s first CD-R,

I think you will find it was PHILLIPS & SONY that made the FIRST CDR they INVENTED IT! in 1988

Cyanine dye CD-Rs were the earliest ones developed, and their formulation is patented by Taiyo Yuden.

Taiyo Yuden only formulated/patented the DYE!

from the cdr wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R

Hm, that's odd. I did a bit of search, and I got a mixed answer. Some sites clearly says that Taiyo Yuden invented the CD-R, and some say it's was Sony & Phillips. Perhaps many misunderstood about Sony & Phillips invented the CD-R, and that Taiyo Yuden actually patented the cyanine dye. But now that you mentioned about Sony invented the CD-R, I think I remember hearing something like that long ago. I guess I should edit my post. Thanks for the correction.

QUOTE. The quality of the disc is also not only dependent on the dye used, it is also influenced by sealing, the top layer, the reflective layer, and the polycarbonate. Simply choosing a disc based on its dye type may be problematic. Furthermore, correct power calibration of the laser in the writer, as well as correct timing of the laser pulses, stable disc speed, etc., is critical to not only the immediate readability but the longevity of the recorded disc, so for archiving it is important to have not only a high quality disc but a high quality writer. In fact, a high quality writer may produce adequate results with medium quality media, but high quality media cannot compensate for a mediocre writer, and discs written by such a writer cannot achieve their maximum potential archival lifetime.

It's true not to be totally dependent on the dye. However, I find it that the dye is one of the most important aspect of the disc and something to focus on, so I didn't really plan on mentioning about the other parts. Actually, when I was researching on the dye, I stumbled upon the reflective layer and learned about it, so I thought I might as well include the information about it. And as for writers... I believe that's a bit more of a complicated and different issue.. The only thing I can comment about writer is to get one of the better brands, such as Pioneer, and use Nero DiscSpeed or DVDInfo Pro to find the suitable speed to burn with minimal errors as possible.

QUOTE(dnmn8e @ Dec 22 2008, 01:31 AM)

how do you find out what dye your disc has, whether its gold, silver or both?
just looking at it?

Each dye has different color. Phthalocyanine is transparent, azo is blue, and cyanine is green. However, note that the combination with the reflective layer shows a different color, and some manufacturer purposely add different colors to "trick" the consumers. You can use programs like DVD Identifier, Nero CD-DVD Speed or DVDInfo Pro to read the dye manufacturer. However, if you want to identify the dye without opening the package, then you'll have to read the package carefully. I know that some Verbatim package clearly says "AZO" on the front label.

 

[pelago]

Interesting, but I don't believe those figures about number of years they will last. Well, maybe the dyes will last that long but I expect something else in the disc will stop it working first.

 

[docoweatpie]

Interesting, but I don't believe those figures about number of years they will last. Well, maybe the dyes will last that long but I expect something else in the disc will stop it working first.

The dye will degrade if the disc is exposed to direct sunlight. You might want to scan the disc in 6 months after it is burned.

 

[Platinum*]

Do the Phthalocyanine (Try saying that five times fast >_>), Cyanine and Azo have colours respective to their type? Dyes can be gold, silver, and a fusion, but what about purple (I hope I have the right colour in the right place >_

 

[kobykaan]

how do you find out what dye your disc has, whether its gold, silver or both?
just looking at it?

research or visit a good stockist that is prepared to give you a couple of freebies if you ask nicely or sell you 1 of each you want to sample for a small sum for testing

some disk retailers also do Sample packs of media with a few different brands/types of disks with different dyes for cheap prices

 

[Tichinde925]

Dyes dont matter to me...

Reason = The Disc may still be of good quality after many, many, many, years....but the Wii's DVD drive would have died long before the discs go bad. (That is if you take care of the discs and never let them see the sun.)

 

[coolbho3000]

Seems as though only CD-R media color varies, all DVD recordable media is purple.

 

[kobykaan]

all DVD recordable media is purple.

usually as a rule YES they are mostly purple but I've had them with the surface dye in various colors!

examples :-

and light scribe disks where you can etch patterns into the writable side of the disk

 

[coolbho3000]

OK, I read a post on CDfreaks explaining that the dyes do not necessarily change the color of DVD media as it does on CD media. So that is why most DVD dyes are purple. Also it said the dye types for CDs and DVDs were essentially the same.

I wonder how to find out what kind of dye a media code has?

 

[IronMask]

So when is someone going to do some research digging on the demodulator series? We got to know what makes them tick!