Hacking Coding vWii 3-core support - everything you need to know.

[the_randomizer]

Damn that sucks...so, where do we go from here?

 

[Maxternal]

LiinuxU (how about LiiU)

See JoostinOnline , I'm not the only one that likes how that double ii looks in Linux LOL

 

[JoostinOnline]

Under Cafe OS, libogc is 100% useless. Linux is a much better bet because it can reasonably replace Cafe OS without an impractical amount of effort (though it's still a lot of effort).

It's also a much less morally-questionable alternative to libogc.

Maxternal More than one person thought it was a good idea to put hydrogen in blimps. That doesn't mean it wasn't horrible.

 

[the_randomizer]

So where do we go from here? If I'm understanding these statements and summations correctly, Wii U homebrew as a whole is nothing but an impossibility/improbability and there's no point in even trying, right? Unless I misinterpreted what was said, that's the vibe I'm getting. Cafe OS can't be used, Libogc can't be used, Tri-Linux would be limited in amount of RAM, no access (or very limited) to GPU instructions, yeah. I was thinking about learning programming and try to self-motivate myself in learning C, Linux and eventually ASM, but guess there's no real need now

 

[JoostinOnline]

So where do we go from here? If I'm understanding these statements and summations correctly, Wii U homebrew as a whole is nothing but an impossibility/improbability and there's no point in even trying, right? Unless I misinterpreted what was said, that's the vibe I'm getting.

No. It looks like the rate of progress just has to increase to something that convinces f0f that everything won't be on them this time.

 

[the_randomizer]

No. It looks like the rate of progress just has to increase to something that convinces f0f that everything won't be on them this time.

The thing of it is, it sure looked like bad news to me, but I digress. What's it gonna take to get more help? In my opinion, learning to program won't do jack squat in the grand scheme of things, so why should I even bother learning? Yeah, sounds defeatist, but that's how I feel right now. Regardless,I want to contribute in any way I can instead of complaining

So we can't use Cafe OS or Libogc, can't use Linux in vWii mode due to lack of GPU access according to what Delroth said and limited RAM. If that is the case, how can an ecosystem even be built? I'm just trying to figure out how this is even going to work, getting more help aside.

 

[grossaffe]

Actually, now that I think of it (since you mentioned drivers) the current Wii Linux does not support the Wii U's new WiFi or Bluetooth adapter. That could also be something to look into.

Unfortunately, the class was not comprehensive enough to get me to the point where I feel I could make a driver for something useful. What we did was a little more abstract in implementing a variation of the scull driver which instead of communicating with some external hardware, our module existed virtually inside the computer and then communicated with a program that would push data into it and pull it back out. I guess I could still take a look and see if a light goes off in my head, but mostly I only brought up the drivers class because we dealt with kernel level programming to an extent with the kmallocs and such, and had some exposure to semaphores and scheduling.

 

[grossaffe]

So, where did you start off learning exactly? I have very limited knowledge of programming and won't be going back to school for a while.

Oh, I didn't see this initially. I started off taking an AP Computer Science class back in high school so many years ago that taught Java. Didn't actually learn much from the teacher as much as I did from other students who had already taken the vanilla CS class. Then I started college the next year majoring in Computer Engineering, so I've taken another couple classes that deal in Java, a couple C-based classes, there was a class where we designed a CPU in VHDL and by going down to the logic level we could study exactly how binary translates into that architecture's assembly instructions and then being able to translate from assembly to C and back. I took a class where I programmed an MSP430 microcontroller primarily in C, though we mixed in some assembly, and we had to have it communicate with external hardware like matrix keypads and OLED screens.

However, if you're not going to be taking classes, you could take the route that my brother took. After seeing the awesome things I was doing with Computer Engineering, he regretted his Finance degree and wanted to learn to program. He found that MIT has free lectures and coursework you can find online so you can teach yourself with a little bit of somewhat structured guidance. Maybe try working on the MIT assignments and you can learn as you go. http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/

 

[Pogostick]

1. I guess nobody finds any use in the Dummies books I post. 2. Guys stop posting ideas. I know you guys are trying to express yourselves but first thing's first, we have to get Maxtenal a Wii U first. Only THEN can you start branching off into your own ideas (since every one has different ideas). Let's put "money donation for Maxternal's Wii U" at the top of the priority list right now. 3. Hey Maxternal since you have Wii , you can run some tests and ideas that have been posted in this thread so you can an idea of how it's gonna be on the Wii U. And maybe you can create a homebrew application on the Wii that motivates people. 'Cause some people look like they're giving up even though we haven't tried yet. And if I'm wrong we could just keep it just in case it does happen.

 

[obcd]

I talked to Maxternal last night and "giving up" is not a word that exist in his vocabulary.
Never the less, we have to face the sad fact that Team f0f has no intentions to hand out the wiiu exploit, even if 3 core vwii linux becomes a fact.
Development is 2 slow or the sky is to cloudy....

We always thought that wiiu 3 core linux could be a homebrew ecosystem on it's own. The exploit is needed to make that happen.

3 core vwii linux is interesting as a learning experience, but with the ram and resource limitations it's having, we don't see much practical use for it.
Maybe people using linux on their wii can prove we see this wrong. In my personal opinion, it's just a "proof of concept"

Knowing the limitations of "3 core" in vwii mode, we were discussing how we could bring the 3 cores to any use in vwii mode.

One of the ideas that crossed our minds was to have separate threads of multithreaded programs run on their own cpu.
This means that the program has to be multithreaded to start with and it also means that the programs need to be modified to redirect the threads.
Games normally don't use those techniques, but emulators could. So maybe the techniques could improve emulation speed on those.

Obviously, I can't speak for maxternal and don't know if he shares my ideas upon this.
We are still looking forward to hear other suggestions as well.

 

[Deletedmember331810]

You just kind of took off last night... That conversation was an interesting read. I wish you guys had kept going but it just abruptly ended, lol and I wouldn't think of Marcan's words that way. I don't think they have no plans whatsoever to release it, they just want a reason TO release it...

 

[obcd]

Yes, I took off. It's a timezone problem

Marcan said they would reconsider releasing the exploit if someone or some team could make a 3 core vwii in something like a couple of weeks. So basically, he added an expire date to the challenge which we (most maxternal who did all the hard work) didn't make. That's why I put a little irony in my posting with the "sky being 2 cloudly..." We all know it's more likely pigs will start to fly than someone will be able to create a 3 core vwii linux in 14 days starting with only the information in the team f0f blog.

Point is, everyone can safely post: "you see, there is no interest, it's not happening"
Question is, if you really want it to happen, should you ask for a miracle?

The pig thing might be a little of topic. Sorry about that.

 

[rednekcowboy]

Marcan said they would reconsider releasing the exploit if someone or some team could make a 3 core vwii in something like a couple of weeks. So basically, he added an expire date to the challenge which we (most maxternal who did all the hard work) didn't make. That's why I put a little irony in my posting with the "sky being 2 cloudly..." We all know it's more likely pigs will start to fly than someone will be able to create a 3 core vwii linux in 14 days starting with only the information in the team f0f blog.

It's called trolling. People keep going back to Marcan looking for help, well forget it, team f0f has no interest in it whatsoever. That part is completely obvious. Every once in a while they come back, only to "poke the bear" so to speak.

It's quite obvious there is interest in it, Max and others are working extremely hard. If interest was all that was required, f0f would have released ages ago.

 

[delroth]

I'm sure warez people are interested too. That's not the kind of interest f0f is looking for: they are looking for people who are able to bootstrap a proper, clean homebrew scene and community based on their work (since they're not willing to do it themselves). This requires interest and ethics, but also some development and RE skills that haven't really been shown on this thread.

 

[uyjulian]

Okay, let me say this once.

There will be "piracy" one way or another, and you can't avoid it!

Same thing happens to every console, you can't avoid it.

 

[Vappy]

Okay, let me say this once.

There will be "piracy" one way or another, and you can't avoid it!

Same thing happens to every console, you can't avoid it.

Doesn't mean that they have to actively or passively contribute towards it.

 

[the_randomizer]

Okay, let me say this once.

There will be "piracy" one way or another, and you can't avoid it!

Same thing happens to every console, you can't avoid it.

Pretty much damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda situation. :/

Doesn't mean that they have to actively or passively contribute towards it.

Can't argue with that

 

[marcan_troll]

So we can't use Cafe OS or Libogc, can't use Linux in vWii mode due to lack of GPU access according to what Delroth said and limited RAM. If that is the case, how can an ecosystem even be built? I'm just trying to figure out how this is even going to work, getting more help aside.

Linux in Wii U mode.
Linux in vWii mode was meant to be a teaser to get people interested (and the tri-core stuff is directly portable to Wii U mode), not the way forward. Otherwise there would be no need for a Wii U exploit.

We all know it's more likely pigs will start to fly than someone will be able to create a 3 core vwii linux in 14 days starting with only the information in the team f0f blog.

Many competent kernel developers are perfectly capable of bringing up SMP support on a new machine type for an existing architecture with existing SMP support (PowerPC) in a very short time. Said kernel developers may not be interested in Wii U homebrew.

Just as many experienced Wii homebrew developers would've been able to get the race condition exploit running in an evening. Heck, we discovered it and got it working less than a week after the Wii U launched (I can't remember the exact time, but the "8 days" fail0verflow post referred to a more interesting exploit that we got working after that, so it was sometime within those first 8 days).

We're not asking for miracles, we're looking to see whether experienced developers capable of running the show are interested. They aren't.

Update: actually, I just checked our internal repo and we had that much working before the Wii U launched in Europe. Must've been one of the early remote tests we were doing on one of the US folks' Wii U before we even got ours (I got mine the next day). So yeah, that much was utterly trivial to implement.

 

[the_randomizer]

Linux in Wii U mode.
Linux in vWii mode was meant to be a teaser to get people interested (and the tri-core stuff is directly portable to Wii U mode), not the way forward. Otherwise there would be no need for a Wii U exploit.

Ah, makes sense, it would be the most viable path to take as opposed to the vWii mode. Thanks for clearing that up! We just need to get Maxternal a Wii U. And no one can assume that there aren't interested people, they need to come forward.

 

[pwsincd]

i wish i could just say , here max have a wiiu , but xmas man cash is tight .. i wish more i could say here max heres the method you should use to acomplish the initial step/s of your project , that i cant do due to lack of knowledge in the area , however there are people in this thread capable of that , lets not be a bah humbug