Capitalism v Communism

[osaka35]

Yeah, you've got to start at what you want a system to accomplish before you discuss what's best to achieve your goals.

So, what kind of society do you want to live in? Most folks would probably say one where you have control over your own actions, no one has to worry about money (rent, healthcare, travel, food, etc), and are free to pursue passions and personal interest. Also one that has long-term goals in mind, such as ecological and technological sustainability.

Ya'll agree on that point at least? or have different goals?

 

[Deleted member 535703]

in the US ( particularly the southern part from personal experience, it can be very contradictory in many ways) most don't have a viable concept of this, and the idea is sound and could work well, but a huge ratification of "who" is in charge( or " what two" parties are ) would have to happen and the right people would have to be able to take or be given responsibility to see it's fulfillment. the way things are now money, media, influence, and fame have to large a role in our politics( it's basically the outline of it, god or what ever deity.. erm entity forbid we listen to logic) . though i completely agree something like this would benefit all in the long run of things. regrettably it would be more a matter of getting to that point of execution of the plan than laying it out.

That's the government's problem not mine. But you have a fair point. Deciding the right people to execute this plan would be crucial. Another thing would be removing the people getting paid off to keep these sorts of ideas out (big companies, oil guys)

 

[wolffangalchemist]

Yeah, you've got to start at what you want a system to accomplish before you discuss what's best to achieve your goals.

So, what kind of society do you want to live in? Most folks would probably say one where you have control over your own actions, no one has to worry about money (rent, healthcare, travel, food, etc), and are free to pursue passions and personal interest. Also one that has long-term goals in mind, such as ecological and technological sustainability.

Ya'll agree on that point at least? or have different goals?

yeah, this is how i would theorize most societies start, it becomes give and take to a point. i would replace not worrying about money with the lesser form of "not worrying about a viable means to make money or obtain necessites" early US was heavily barter system and tax less. a good example of things going awry early on would be this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion it is a good read for anyone if for nothing else the attitude early us citizens had about being overtaxed or taxed in general.

 

[jimbo13]

Dearest Saint Ron Paul... the fact this is even a conversation still is why I teach my children to curse and boo anytime we drive by a public school as I point out the bad parents who don't care enough to make sure their children get a decent education.

 

[Deleted member 535703]

Dearest Saint Ron Paul... the fact this is even a conversation still is why I teach my children to curse and boo anytime we drive by a public school as I point out the bad parents who don't care enough to make sure their children get a decent education.

The heck? Public education is a good thing. I gained a huge amount of education (near-college) in my school program in fifth grade. Yes, I am an accelerated learning student. But lemme guess, you were a private school kid?

 

[jimbo13]

The heck? Public education is a good thing. I gained a huge amount of education (near-college) in my school program in fifth grade. Yes, I am an accelerated learning student. But lemme guess, you were a private school kid?

Yeah no thanks.

 

[Deleted member 535703]

Yeah no thanks.

Yes, because one instance of teachers being high on a drug screws over the entirety of public education. Thank you for reminding me that just because one person did something stupid means all teachers are stupid. The odds against of your child ending up with a bad teacher are currently around 2,400,000:1,000. I would take those odds in a heartbeat to not have to pay for my children's education. Public school has educated more people 10:1 than private school. My facts? Oh, here. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372

 

[jimbo13]

Yes, because one instance of teachers being high on a drug screws over the entirety of public education. Thank you for reminding me that just because one person did something stupid means all teachers are stupid. The odds against of your child ending up with a bad teacher are currently around 2,400,000:1,000. I would take those odds in a heartbeat to not have to pay for my children's education. Public school has educated more people 10:1 than private school. My facts? Oh, here. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372

I have no interest in claims from the public school system they are doing an adequate job, I go outside routinely. Outside and observing > their claims. And that is not an isolated instance, drag queen story time is adopted policy in numerous districts. If they stuck to stem fine, ideological indoctrination not fine.

 

[Deleted member 535703]

I have no interest in claims from the public school system they are doing an adequate job, I go outside routinely. Outside and observing > their claims. And that is not an isolated instance, drag queen story time is adopted policy in numerous districts. If they stuck to stem fine, ideological indoctrination not fine.

Is your colon wired incorrectly? All I hear is crap.

Firstly, this is the government you're talking about. .GOV is used for official government websites and nothing else. It's legally reserved that way. If you're saying your own basic judgement is larger than federally regulated government protocol, why don't you become President? Find some way to prove it to me. You are dragging this further off-topic mate.

 

[SG854]

no one has to worry about money (rent, healthcare, travel, food, etc),

You talking about going back to the old bartering system?

 

[jimbo13]

Is your colon wired incorrectly? All I hear is crap.

Firstly, this is the government you're talking about. .GOV is used for official government websites and nothing else. It's legally reserved that way. If you're saying your own basic judgement is larger than federally regulated government protocol, why don't you become President? Find some way to prove it to me. You are dragging this further off-topic mate.

Trusting government LMAO...

 

[Deleted member 535703]

Trusting government LMAO...

You have to be pissing within my own trousers.

Of course I trust the government. Who else would govern the country? Anarchy is literally the dumbest thing ever and everyone here can agree as we will fall into factions. (Which have leaders, thus, a government.)

Either you're satirical, or you're an actual idiot.

 

[jimbo13]

You have to be pissing within my own trousers.

Of course I trust the government. Who else would govern the country? Anarchy is literally the dumbest thing ever and everyone here can agree as we will fall into factions. (Which have leaders, thus, a government.)

Either you're satirical, or you're an actual idiot.

Well atleast the government school was effective at teaching you they are to be trusted LMAAAAAAAAAAAAO.

In closing I'll leave you all with this.

Government education has failed anyone still arguing the merits of communism. Communist apologists are dumber than flat earthers. At least the flat earther is capable of questioning authority.

“It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.”

And many of you have my deepest sympathies for being robbed of coherent thought by the government education system.

 

[Deleted member 535703]

Well atleast the government school was effective at teaching you they are to be trusted LMAAAAAAAAAAAAO.

In closing I'll leave you all with this.

Government education has failed anyone still arguing the merits of communism. Communist apologists are dumber than flat earthers. At least the flat earther is capable of questioning authority.

“It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.”

And many of you have my deepest sympathies for being robbed of coherent thought by the government education system.

The government, education, and American society is not communist. Suck it. I have more coherent thought than you do, and I am slowly accelerated towards my degree at 14 thanks to public education. You are an idiot. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[osaka35]

You talking about going back to the old bartering system?

nah, then you're just worried about having a resource, and hoping other people are willing to trade for it. barter system has more opportunities for failure than a money system.

i meant no worries of being broke and poor; without the resources to trade, either money or goods

 

[Deleted User]

 

[Foxi4]

From the hit YouTube channel that brought you all-time hits like "How much would it cost to build the Death Star?", "Could we survive a zombie apocalypse?" and other fact-based and worthwhile analyses.

There seems to be political leanings on Second Thought such as being more liberal (...) there are retweets of Democrats and dislikes the gun and religion culture in the United States which is seen on his Twitter account. (...) He is currently making political content on a Leftist's point of view and is a self-described "Socialist".
https://youtube.fandom.com/wiki/Second_Thought

Amazin. The guy's LinkedIn is pretty funny too. I'm sure he's well-versed in what he's talking about given his career trajectory, from liberal arts major through sales assistant at Best Buy to effectively telemarketing to being self-employed. Good source.

 

[KingVamp]

Both are flawed, IMO a mix of capitalism with socialism is probably the best system we can implement right now. So you use taxation from those who benefit from capitalism and use it to help those who aren't able to benefit. It's just a pity that there are enough assholes who benefit that they try to stop it.

nah, then you're just worried about having a resource, and hoping other people are willing to trade for it. barter system has more opportunities for failure than a money system.

i meant no worries of being broke and poor; without the resources to trade, either money or goods

I think improving on social democracy is the best we got, until we somehow discover virtually unlimited and easily accessible resources.

 

[Deleted User]

From the hit YouTube channel that brought you all-time hits like "How much would it cost to build the Death Star?", "Could we survive a zombie apocalypse?" and other fact-based and worthwhile analyses.

So your criticizing the guy based on past content?
Well if that's the case then. I guess him stating the the UN climate report of 2019 wasn't important or fact based.
Or "how America was almost overrun by hippos" which is historically correct.
His channel back around 2 years ago was primarily focused on scientific what if scenarios. For example, the death star one you brought up was made over 2 years, 3 and a half roughly speaking. (march 16 2018) he didn't make his own research up (creating shit out of thin air is what I mean), his source there was from the students economics blog at Lehigh University. Who did the research about the estimated amount it would cost to build a death star.
My point being, it's rather silly that your criticizing the guy over having silly videos over 2 years ago.And or different content from what he makes now.

Amazin. The guy's LinkedIn is pretty funny too. I'm sure he's well-versed in what he's talking about given his career trajectory, from liberal arts major through sales assistant at Sony and Best Buy to being self-employed. Good source.

And? I guess you don't look at the description for his sources
for example the video I just linked. the descriptions sources:
Capitalism and markets: https://www.rdwolff.com/capitalism_is... Capitalist perspective on dangers of short-term thinking: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/21/op...
Marx on class structure under capitalism: http://uregina.ca/~gingrich/s28f99.htm Imperialism: https://www.marxists.org/archive/leni... Amazon destroying products: https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-21/a... Dunkin Donuts worker fired: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/dunkin-e... Dairy farmers dumping milk: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/perspe... Potato farmers abandoning crops: https://www.businessinsider.com/potat... Grocery store waste: https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/fi... Texas electrical grid problems: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/21/us... https://www.utilitydive.com/news/the-... Champlain Towers collapse: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/us... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/06/us... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seZHb... https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/08/us/mia...

Saying it's not at least researched, is kinda misleading don't you think?



I should also point out that if your unable to criticize the actual content stated in the video, unable to refusing any of the talking points but rather through essentially a low ad hominium (talking about work history. and pretty much low key stating he is bad or inferior.) Then you don't really have a argument to stand on do you?

 

[Deleted User]

as an additional note. I took a look at his patreon, clearly he is self employed because of that. at 2,299 people contributing to him. if we just took the lowest tier, (2 dollars) and assumed that's what he is making from every single backer. that's 4,458 dollars per month.