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HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
Truth has nothing to do with viewpoints. Truth, in its purest form, simply is what is fact and what isn't. Belief is accepting an idea regardless of truth. My warning to everyone - do not confuse the two. I seek truth every day, and I'm often correcting myself for falsehoods I once believed in.
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
Also @Nikokaro you are absolutely right. Most people often associate truth with "if it feels good, then it must be right." I learned the hard way that feelings can and often do lie about what really is true. You also touched on what happens in the spiritual realm, the "elements... which we cannot control or suppress."
x65943
x65943
To me truth is what can be objectively proved

This is why I don't believe in god
Nikokaro
Nikokaro
Read better! Truth= fact. What he has already said.
But it is not easy to determine what is actually objective (a fact). Often meds (even placebos) turn out to be surprisingly effective, without their function being objectively explainable. That would be to say effective = true ≠ objectively demonstrable.
For placebos: power of autosuggestion.
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
Placebos are a different case. This is where faith comes in - faith has an effect on what happens to a person. Faith strong enough can move mountains, but it still needs to have a basis on what's true in order to be effective. Faith is belief, true, but faith is a much stronger belief in that you can't convince someone of something.
x65943
x65943
The interesting aspect of faith is that there are so many different religions that all have similar magnitude strength faith in different things

And it makes you wonder a bit whether any of them are correct - and sheds light on the imperfect nature of faith and perhaps its total failing
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
For placebos, people believe the pills will work, even if they don't know that they're fake, because they want to be better. We were all supposed to be perfect beings once upon a time, so the urge to want to be better is natural. However, I do wonder if sometimes people don't get better because of being deceived of the truth.
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
@x65943 Again, in order for faith to be most effective, it needs to be based on truth. Believing in what is trustworthy and what is real is believing in truth; believing in complete lies can actually damage your faith and your integrity.
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
This is where I bring in Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Here's the challenge, though: How can this be proven? What makes this different from non-Christian religions (or even Christian religions)?
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
I say that the proof is out there, if you know where to look. It doesn't have to take God standing in front of you saying "I exist!" in order to know whether he does or not. Keep searching. SEEK THE TRUTH. It even says in the Bible that the truth will set you free, so go find it, and even if you think you know it, keep looking!
x65943
x65943
"in order for faith to be most effective, it needs to be based on truth"

yes and my point is there is nothing you can do or show to say any one faith is more true than another - you're all shooting blind
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
I'm not talking about A faith (what is believed), as in a religious doctrine or political propaganda; I'm talking about faith (what belief is) as in believing something strongly. What you should believe, or have faith in, is the truth. No politics or religion required.
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
I'm well aware that faith has different meanings. Most often it is assumed that it simply means belief in God, a person (i.e. a leader), or a community (i.e. a country or club), but it also means, according to the third def in Merriam-Webster: something that is believed especially with strong conviction. Which can apply to literally anything.
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
For instance, I have faith that I am talking to a real person, even though I can not see you or hear you. I know this because I have interacted with bots and talked to real people on the internet. I know how people can respond. Unless I am utterly proven wrong, this is what I believe to be true - but I do not stop seeking truth, and if I am wrong, I will adjust my faith accordingly.
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
Faith should not hinder mental growth and seeking the truth, and if it does, then you have faith in the wrong things, and you truly are believing lies. This is what can harm a person, both emotionally and spiritually.
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
Continuing to have faith in the wrong things, despite the obvious truth, can not only affect you but in others, as well. If the core part of you is not rooted in truth, then you not only deceive yourself but also other people who interact with you. It is important to believe in what's true and not just what other people tell you - including me.
Nikokaro
Nikokaro
So with this existential-philosophical, not strictly religious meaning. If faith is understood so broadly and vaguely, no one will dispute that, I think. But the opening post specifically talked about God.
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HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
Interesting point. We all assume that God is part of a religion, since so many Christians believe in one religious doctrine or another (even so-called "non-denominationalists"). However, there is no evidence in the Bible to suggest that God demanded worship of himself, nor does he say "You must do this, or I'll kill you!"
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
He does say "You shall have no other gods before me", but this is because he wants to have a relationship with us, not because he's a dictator. Think of having an intelligent creation of your own - how would you feel if your creation turned against you in anger and spite and started following other creations of yours as a result? Would it not hurt you?
HarveyHouston
HarveyHouston
If we truly are "created in His own image", then God must not only exist, but he also has feelings, too. Some people take this too literally to mean he's a human (Mormanism comes to mind), but IIRC it means that we have the ability to have morality and feelings just like God does.