Tales of Symphonia: Definitive Edition beta launches today

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Tales of Symphonia: Definitive Edition has now entered its public beta. This is a fan made mod for the Steam version of Bandai Namco's Tales of Symphonia. The project endeavors to build upon the original Steam release and make it the "best" most complete version of the game.

The mod attempts to bring together all of the content ever released for the game and enables 60FPS gameplay without the numerous bugs that plagued its many ports.

Missing text and voice lines have been restored and textures have been consolidated from the various versions of the game, then upscaled or in some cases reworked completely while keeping the original art intent as close as possible. Optional quality of life changes, including fast-forward, faster block pushing, free run, Artes sphere for more arte shortcuts in combat and the removal of the spell queue are all included.
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The developers have been upfront about the use of AI in the project. One of them explained on Reddit how it fitted in:

AggravatingMap3086 said:
The game engine was designed to run at 60FPS, and the PS2 port effectively hacked it down by doubling draw calls, multiplying a bunch of things by 2x, subtracting by 2 per frame instead of 1, and effectively just doing every possible thing twice per frame. It is effectively running at 60FPS twice, rather than actually targetting 30FPS. The main use of AI in this project was an IDA MCP server to help with finding these tiny doublings in the code and remove them whenever we found behaviour to be off.

The team claim the mod has also only been possible thanks to over a dozen team members working several hundred hours each.

More details can be found on the teams Discord and the YouTube video above.

:arrow: Discord Server
 
The video description elaborates even more about AI use for this project. Very important.

That aside, might actually buy the game on Steam once the patch is fully released. I have the Switch version and I only touched it for like, 20 minutes before being disappointed because of the 30fps lock.
all that QoL is much appreciated, and it might become the actual definitive way to play it, maybe even more than the Gamecube version.

Can't doubt Life Bottle Productions when it comes to Tales fan releases!
 
I didn't know there was so many bugs in the pc version. I assumed it was just the same game as the ps3 version I bought. It also stings Namco didn't even update it to make them on par with the version they put on consoles two years ago. How could they just make a PS4,Xbox one, and switch version without even touching the pc? Is so odd to me.
 
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Honestly, just the fact that the GC version is the only one that runs at 60fps is the reason why I never bother with the later releases despite the added content. Not having the battles be smooth for an action RPG like that is a complete deal breaker. If they can fix that, it'll de facto be the best way to play ToS.

Such a waste of time, I want to love this! But I've completed this game so many times!
Just for a FPS boost isn't worth it again! Kudos to the person working on it, but meh!
Now if he would have change the graphics style some kind of way from the anime to like cgi pixar like and improve the overall graphics...kind of like the Crytek guy does with OOT.

Then I would have been like damn looks amazing and gave it another try, but better FPS for this long game. Nope!

Not saying it won't be cool and nice, just not for me! Just my thoughts and opinion...great game nonetheless, but definitely deserves better.

Deserves more of the FF7 like remake....
I'm glad you're not in charge of this because these ideas are terrible.
 
If it has 60fps combat I might finally play this game.
I'm a huge Tales of fan, but never cared for this entry, since I wanted to play the ports and they are all capped to 30 fps, which is extremely unfun to play.
The video description elaborates even more about AI use for this project. Very important.
No one should care though.
That aside, might actually buy the game on Steam once the patch is fully released. I have the Switch version and I only touched it for like, 20 minutes before being disappointed because of the 30fps lock.
all that QoL is much appreciated, and it might become the actual definitive way to play it, maybe even more than the Gamecube version.

Can't doubt Life Bottle Productions when it comes to Tales fan releases!
As for this, completely agree on everything.
 
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Honestly, just the fact that the GC version is the only one that runs at 60fps is the reason why I never bother with the later releases despite the added content. Not having the battles be smooth for an action RPG like that is a complete deal breaker. If they can fix that, it'll de facto be the best way to play ToS.
Just the fps boost would make it on par with the GameCube version, but the extra sidequests and artes would probably make it the best way to play the game. It's nice to have the optional enhancements, but I'm more of a purist so I'll probably play the game without them. Also the game is often on sale, I bought it a while ago for $2.50 if I recall correctly.

I'm glad you're not in charge of this because these ideas are terrible.
x2.
 
The video description elaborates even more about AI use for this project. Very important.

That aside, might actually buy the game on Steam once the patch is fully released. I have the Switch version and I only touched it for like, 20 minutes before being disappointed because of the 30fps lock.
all that QoL is much appreciated, and it might become the actual definitive way to play it, maybe even more than the Gamecube version.

Can't doubt Life Bottle Productions when it comes to Tales fan releases!
Sounds like they used a local server solution too, which is another nice bonus. The description was a great reassurance this was a project by people who truly love the game & want to see it in the best form possible. It makes me feel bad that I'd be going through the game vanilla besides the 60fps patch without the optional enhancements like Arte Sphere & Full 3D Movement, unless I finish my playthrough on GameCube.

...My sympathies for the Switch port, though. The over-sharpened textures alone from footage I've seen were downright sad & would've made it unplayable for me. And I've speaking as someone who bought the SMT 3 Nocturne HD "Remaster", in all its Wiimote-core battle music glory. :(
 
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I'm glad you're not in charge of this because these ideas are terrible.
Agreed. Not surprised that the ideas came from a "you don't know a thing about me" pirate, either. They tend to not be the best judges when it comes to making/improving good classics.

That being said, I don't recall the GameCube version having 60 FPS. But I guess that's primarily because it's been some years since I played that version (been playing the Steam version every now and then between games). I just hope that Life Bottle Production doesn't lean too much on AI while bringing 60 FPS and more to the Steam version with the final release - I'm not joining a Discord server just to test the Beta.
 
-snip-
Post automatically merged:

Overworld was 30fps, but the battles ran at 60fps, like how the Switch versions of (most) Tales rereleases do things.
Fair enough. Like I said, it's been a good while since I played the original GameCube version, so my memory regarding the finer details isn't what it used to be.
 
Such a waste of time, I want to love this! But I've completed this game so many times!
Just for a FPS boost isn't worth it again! Kudos to the person working on it, but meh!
Now if he would have change the graphics style some kind of way from the anime to like cgi pixar like and improve the overall graphics...kind of like the Crytek guy does with OOT.

Then I would have been like damn looks amazing and gave it another try, but better FPS for this long game. Nope!

Not saying it won't be cool and nice, just not for me! Just my thoughts and opinion...great game nonetheless, but definitely deserves better.

Deserves more of the FF7 like remake....
It’s a fan mod… you’re not getting anything close to a remake here. Hit up Bamco to see if they’re interested.. I can save you some time, they’re not. They re-released Tales of Berseria with no meaningful additions or fixes.
 
It’s a fan mod… you’re not getting anything close to a remake here. Hit up Bamco to see if they’re interested.. I can save you some time, they’re not. They re-released Tales of Berseria with no meaningful additions or fixes.
And even if Bamco was going to do a remake of Symphonia, I'm pretty sure they'd do it on their own terms anyway.

Regardless, it says something when many Tales of series spin-offs (and even select main series titles) are still Japan-exclusive, and getting English translations purely through fan efforts.
 
Why are fans capable of these things for free in their spare time that the actual companies cannot provide to us in a paid commercial product?

It's infuriating. Why pay for this product when the fans make it better for free. Same with decomps and recomps. Why even give money to these companies at all?
 
Why are fans capable of these things for free in their spare time that the actual companies cannot provide to us in a paid commercial product?

It's infuriating. Why pay for this product when the fans make it better for free. Same with decomps and recomps. Why even give money to these companies at all?
Because they do not see it as a good investment. Unlike with corporations, fans are doing the work for the community in their spare time and have no pressure or obligation to finish it, neither do they have to think if it will be profitable.

From the perspective of Bamco, they would need to hire idk, let's say a dozen or 2 dozen people, from translators, to programmers, to QA testers and invest a sizeable amount of money and time into it. Question is......would it sell enough for them to make a profit? In their eyes, with whatever reasoning they used, the answer they got is a 'no'. Especially when that money could be invested into something they see as something that will bring them larger profit.

It's unfortunate, but that is how it is.
 
Why are fans capable of these things for free in their spare time that the actual companies cannot provide to us in a paid commercial product?

It's infuriating. Why pay for this product when the fans make it better for free. Same with decomps and recomps. Why even give money to these companies at all?
As Lop1 said, the answer boils down to priorities and intention.

When it comes to fan works, there can, legally, be no profit whatsoever coming from them. Even those asking for donations walk a very fine line between fair use and infringement, as the dev/project lead would have to prove that all of the money is going into the project, instead of into their pockets, if accused of profiting from another company's IP. Because of this, and other legal hurdles that could cut a fan project's development time short, there's no real incentive for fans to see these projects through to completion, let alone start such projects in the first place. So this means only two kinds of people will work on these projects from start to finish: either a) dedicated fans who are willing to devote the time and effort into what's essentially profitless volunteer work that could last for months or even years, or b) AI vibecoders who are just looking for attention and don't care about the quality of the work they "develop".

Companies, on the other hand, do not invest in profitless endeavors. They invest in commercial products intended to make a profit - the degree of the profit desired varying. Because of this, they don't operate under the same volunteer work environment that fan projects do. They need to hire developers and artists who'll see the work through without hiatus as long as they're compensated. They need a development time frame that isn't "it'll be done when it's done" so they can estimate how much the labor will be costing them. They have to factor in advertising, licensing, trademarks, copyright - so many things that fans don't have to factor into their own work, yet always have to be cautious of with fan projects. And THEN they have to compare all this against projected MSRP and sales numbers, to determine if it's even worth greenlighting the project. (Basically, if there's too much of a risk of the project being a noticeable/substantial loss for the company, rather than just being a tiny blip on the quarterly/yearly financial report if it doesn't work out, it won't be approved.)


In short, fans working on fan projects have to worry about their own energy, funding, and motivation in the face of profitless (and potentially thankless) work that's forced to tiptoe around IP laws. Companies just have to worry about whether they'll see profits or losses from a project, and if those losses will be significant enough to pose a huge risk.
 
Last edited by ChronosNotashi,
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This truly is the golden age of modding. I'm glad that the narrative surrounding AI's use in coding is shifting. These projects literally wouldn't be feasible without it.
 

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