"If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing" is a stupid quote and I'm sick of hearing it

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I have never encountered this in the western world. Reputable vendors always have a return policy for open box items in my experience
Literally every game store I've been to has this with BNIB games... Best Buy wouldn't take a game back because I opened. Used games are a different story
 
I ain't using the "straw man" argument, here. It is what it is. You see it most often when Nintendo's antics against someone happen.

They always come saying "this is why pirating Nintendo's games is OK!".

That is entitlement, no?
I guess it is.

I took some time to re-read the posts and I think you and Discostew were referring to a different kind of person than I was. Seems I was the one to jump the gun first by assuming differently and starting an argument.

Sorry, I guess these threads still brings the impulsive side out of me 😓
 
Since when did people ever OWN other peoples/companies software that THEY wrote and sold?????

Unless YOU hired everyone on the project and made it clear that they're writing that software for YOU, its not YOUR OWN software.

A perpetual license (aka physical (and most digital) games) does not mean you own the software itself.
Embarrassing and boring
 
90% I pirate my games, music and movies.
Lately I use steam for game works fine, on my pc and rog ally x.
Music and movies is another story (looking at my 16tb home server).

But quote is 100% true, if you like it or not.
I'll give you that the quote is true. It just doesn't say anything meaningful
 
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The thing is, the argument the companies will always make, and their excuse for nailing you with massive fines in court, is that piracy is theft in the form of lost sales. I'm not saying it's accurate, but it's the inevitable recourse. And if you're the type who legitimately does want to preserve, by amassing as much as possible in complete sets and doing your best to offer some form of redistribution, generally at zero recompense and even at great personal expense in some cases, you are the absolute worst kind of pirate/thief to those companies and they will do everything in their power to make an example of you.

Yes, the quote is more than anything a rallying cry in the face of the ongoing and aggressive erosion of ownership. Used a MIG cart for Switch 1 games on your Switch 2, or a game card that's been remotely flagged as suspicious? Your console's bricked now, because Nintendo can do that for some reason, and nine times out of ten they will lie to your face that it can't be undone unless you happen to be very persistent with the right people. This is also a massive blow to the second-hand market by way of sowing mistrust. Used the original game sharing function on the older versions of Switch firmware? They took that function out to add the more restrictive one. Wanted to own a physical version with your physical purchase of Pokopia? Screw you, game key cards only. And on and on like this. And when people continue to unironically make the argument:

Since when did people ever OWN other peoples/companies software that THEY wrote and sold?????

Unless YOU hired everyone on the project and made it clear that they're writing that software for YOU, its not YOUR OWN software.

A perpetual license (aka physical (and most digital) games) does not mean you own the software itself.

It really doesn't help. It's an argument that entirely misses or seeks to obfuscate the core issue of, "I bought the thing. I own what I bought, otherwise it can't legally be called a purchase. As such I should continue to be able to use it as long as it physically lasts, but that is no longer a guarantee."

Is it an entitled attitude? It certainly can be, but I think you'll find most people don't need the excuse if free access was all they were interested in to begin with. And consider the following: a game that you would otherwise find precious, you are forced on principle not to financially support for one reason or another, so the moral "high ground" is to neither purchase nor pirate and simply suffer the loss of the experience. Presumably others in the wild will still maintain pirated copies, but depending on the nature of the game and its distribution and general level of public interest, how long until the last known mirror goes offline? It happens. Next to how many games remain available, albeit near-exclusively through unofficial channels, it's an infrequent occurrence but still a scary thought, especially as more and more public archivals bite the dust over time.

In theory, then, the TRUE high ground is to pirate but then not play the game in service of keeping one more copy of it alive, but at that point... c'mon, it's right there. And if we leave aside the rigid and oft-abused letter of the law for a moment in an attempt to obey the spirit, where do we allocate things like the NSO subscription, having to pay in perpetuity as the ONLY legitimate modern means of supporting retro Nintendo games? Even leaving aside the price, it's such a fraction of those systems' vast libraries, and leaves out titles like Mother 3 which have only ever been playable in English through unofficial channels. Should third-party retro handhelds be completely illegal based on the requirement of obtaining game dumps via what are in 99.99% of cases illicit means because it is a NIGHTMARE to actually go through the process of dumping your own carts and discs even if you still have them? What about if you pirated but didn't play a game and then, years later, it stops being sold. Is it more acceptable to play it then? Is it only "okay" if you get a second-hand copy from somewhere, and what does that even really matter when none of that money is going to go to any of the devs or even the rights holders?

I want to support and preserve games. The companies I need to go through are more interested in charging me an arm and a leg for the privilege and then ripping away that privilege after the fact. I'll still try to support the games where it seems reasonable, but at the end of the day, if you're consistently going out of your way to abuse and antagonize your customer base, you don't get to wear the Shocked Pikachu Face when the customer base finally begins antagonizing you back, and that is at the heart of that phrase, self-serving as it may be at face value.

So if I only lick you, at intervals I presume acceptable yet unnoticeable by you, I unlock the infinite flavor town?!

Thanks for this. This is the worst analogy I have ever heard and also my new favourite.
 
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I guess it is.

I took some time to re-read the posts and I think you and Discostew were referring to a different kind of person than I was. Seems I was the one to jump the gun first by assuming differently and starting an argument.

Sorry, I guess these threads still brings the impulsive side out of me 😓
It's all good. These kinds of discussions are good to have, mostly to get the grip of the standing of the community at large.

I find it fascinating that there was a while when we hardly talked piracy at this level, and now, either from extreme gamification, excess offering and more negative public dealings with companies (abuse allegations, massive layoffs, owners being less that reputable people), it now again a hot topic.
 
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Piracy isn't legal but the entire concept of digital copyright doesn't make sense and only exists to squeeze a capitalist model into a digital world which by definition has infinite supply.

I also agree companies are 100 percent allowed to revoke digital rights to your games at any time even if it's for no reason. It's what you sign up for. Most people don't get that when they sign up though
 
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It is a very flimsy justification these days. The GabeN quote isn't as flashy, but it's always been true: piracy is a service problem. Maybe in the first couple years of Steam existing it was reasonable to worry about games suddenly being revoked from your library, but two decades later that's no longer a good excuse. I've got at least ten games that are no longer for sale, but remain in my library and can be downloaded/played at any time. They'll even give you your money back for live service games if they don't last very long.

That said, there's nothing wrong with honesty, sometimes piracy is the best way to demo a game and determine whether it's worth buying. Sometimes the price of necessities is stupidly high and a lot of people simply can't afford entertainment. Sometimes the service being provided sucks or it's Nintendo trying to sell you the same game at full price for the tenth time. All perfectly valid in their own right, no need to feel guilty about it or martyr yourself for internet randos.
 
I have a feeling that the analogy went above the head of a lot of people, it's really not that deep to understand that not having ownership from what you paid full price is similar to borrowing something in order to make a copy you keep for yourself, except that you are not the one losing money over it maybe.
 
That said, there's nothing wrong with honesty, sometimes piracy is the best way to demo a game and determine whether it's worth buying. Sometimes the price of necessities is stupidly high and a lot of people simply can't afford entertainment. Sometimes the service being provided sucks or it's Nintendo trying to sell you the same game at full price for the tenth time. All perfectly valid in their own right, no need to feel guilty about it or martyr yourself for internet randos.
Also what I've always said - incentivize people paying for the product. Give legit copies that verify so by connecting online some little bonus, or co-op mode, or a killer multiplayer mode on top of all of those. Making yet another, generic, 6v6 circlejerk shooter and making it exclusively live-service will get old sooner than later. And everyone here, on Temp, is overblowing how little piracy actually happens at large given that most current consoles are not easy to hack, are monitored and hardware getting bans left and right, the fact that legit torrent sites are slimming down by the month, and that you'd need a PC to perform most of the said hacks that 90% of consoomers are indeed to stupid to do.
 
That quote isn’t really a good argument, but piracy isn’t exactly okay either. Both sides kinda miss the point.
 
I care about stealing, where you take a physical item without paying for it. I don't care about copyright infringing on billion dollar companies. Piracy is copyright infringement.
 
I feel like the quote is less of a proof or justification and more a call for change, to stop buying media that cannot be owned and pirate it to protest the eroding ownership.

As for the terms companies put up, they can write whatever they want, but whether that holds up depends on the legality. As an example, losing access to paid games with a perpetual license was mostly uncontested grounds until Stop Killing Games movement.

At this point, it feels like the only way to prevent the worst in regards to ownership is to take notes and start a similar movement, like Stop Killing Ownership, which the entire tech industry is in dire need of. It probably wouldn't succeed in America where the most influential people defend and widen copyright and other such laws to benefit large corporations as long as it makes them money...
 
The main point of the quote is to highlight the difference in ownership between something like buying a book or CD and a modern game. These days companies can remotely disable access to things you bought on a whim, with no prior notice, and no ability for the buyer to object.
Imagine the same being done to a book you own, the company should just be allowed to enter your home and take the copy back?
Most of the time when companies shut a game/service down its usually for not a very good reason nowadays.

waking up one day to boot up a game only for a message to convey that it's no longer available when you paid for it, would be concept some would scoff at years ago.

But it's something that's an unfortunate possibility at any given moment especially with how much remote access companies have over modern media and tech.
 
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