Is the Analogue Pocket not as accurate as a real GBA?
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No comment for now on your main question (I don't know either), but
Emulation can mean a lot of things once you go beyond face/dictionary value, I don't think an HLE (High Level Emulator) is in the same league as a "real" emulator (it certainly has little documentation/testing/real-hardware-substituting value) but look at how many people think we have Wii/3DS/$witch "emulators" just because they can get their legally dumped personal backups to work on their PC;
Similarly these "FPGA machines" are clearly using some degree of "emulation" (as tautologically they're not original chips) whether or not the average user is calling it so*, and given the original parts are quite literally black boxes, while well documented (in great part thanks to 20+ years of amateur development, both on the homebrew/hacks and emulation sides) it's certainly possible for something to have been missed or mistyped at any stage of the fact-finding → documentation writing → documentation reading by someone else → emulator or "emulator" programming sequence!
* OK, long story: a FPGA is a programmable chip such that it can be equivalent to - aka "emulate" - various other ones (not a new or original concept either - plain ROMs have been used as substitutes for logic chips since at least as the 80s, see also the Sinclair/Ferranti "ULA" chipsets which are factory pressed and integrate further than pure logic, develop them further into writable or rewritable chips and you have a FPGA), so we eventually got FPGA clones of various Sinclair/Commodore/etc proprietary chips (also more or less accurate), but the typical multi-system "FPGA machine" like the Mister are closer to "common emulators with genuinely useful hardware acceleration" than said replica chips (very neatly written further reading material), not sure about the implementation details of the more dedicated FPGA systems like Analogue's but the "jailbreak" CFWs suggests their position "between the two" is at least variable... which brings back to the point that in ALL of these cases someone can in good faith say "emulation" with a straight face, and that in ALL of these cases someone else will laugh and try to upsell their product compared to the more mainstream kind of emulation
Emulation can mean a lot of things once you go beyond face/dictionary value, I don't think an HLE (High Level Emulator) is in the same league as a "real" emulator (it certainly has little documentation/testing/real-hardware-substituting value) but look at how many people think we have Wii/3DS/$witch "emulators" just because they can get their legally dumped personal backups to work on their PC;
Similarly these "FPGA machines" are clearly using some degree of "emulation" (as tautologically they're not original chips) whether or not the average user is calling it so*, and given the original parts are quite literally black boxes, while well documented (in great part thanks to 20+ years of amateur development, both on the homebrew/hacks and emulation sides) it's certainly possible for something to have been missed or mistyped at any stage of the fact-finding → documentation writing → documentation reading by someone else → emulator or "emulator" programming sequence!
* OK, long story: a FPGA is a programmable chip such that it can be equivalent to - aka "emulate" - various other ones (not a new or original concept either - plain ROMs have been used as substitutes for logic chips since at least as the 80s, see also the Sinclair/Ferranti "ULA" chipsets which are factory pressed and integrate further than pure logic, develop them further into writable or rewritable chips and you have a FPGA), so we eventually got FPGA clones of various Sinclair/Commodore/etc proprietary chips (also more or less accurate), but the typical multi-system "FPGA machine" like the Mister are closer to "common emulators with genuinely useful hardware acceleration" than said replica chips (very neatly written further reading material), not sure about the implementation details of the more dedicated FPGA systems like Analogue's but the "jailbreak" CFWs suggests their position "between the two" is at least variable... which brings back to the point that in ALL of these cases someone can in good faith say "emulation" with a straight face, and that in ALL of these cases someone else will laugh and try to upsell their product compared to the more mainstream kind of emulation
Thanks for the detailed reply. I might be wrong, but [to me] it sounds like the Pocket can't physically be 100% accurate, but it might be "good enough" for many.
I'll stick to original hardware
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It can physically be 100% accurate, but that would require more years of effort and very specific circumstances. It's unlikely it ever will be 100% accurate, but not impossible.Thanks for the detailed reply. I might be wrong, but [to me] it sounds like the Pocket can't physically be 100% accurate, but it might be "good enough" for many.
I'll stick to original hardware
I know the GBA core on MiSTer has had a number of issues and is being re-evaluated by its developer/maintainer to be made more accurate at the cost of some additional non-essential features being removed. One of the issues I had with the MiSTer core was loss of sync which resulted in stutters that were very apparent in a game like Pokémon Pinball R&S which I've played a lot of on the core. Seemed more likely to happen in longer play sessions, but is definitely a problem there. I'm not sure how different Analogue's core is than the MiSTer core, but we have to remember they've both got the same room for human error.
The biggest thing you want to look for in an FPGA core is cycle accuracy, which if truly present avoids major inaccuracies like the one I've stated above. If an emulator or core is truly cycle-accurate, the only thing adding any latency to the experience would be the end-user (by doing things like adding wireless gamepads, USB, etc.), and the emulator or core should perform functionally identically to its "real hardware" counterpart under all circumstances, barring any improper implementations by the developer.
Last edited by AkikoKumagara,
"Accurate" has a conveniently less argued meaning (in the context of "emulation" I suppose that would be "do any and all programs, existing and future, give the same results as on the original platform"),
but that too leaves more leeway than you think (the screen is clearly not a genuine GBA one, not even by pixel count, so from that POV the results are clearly not the same; but you can say the same of classic emulators running on a PC or the other 14 devices in your home that can "play GBA roms"; and conversely you can buy aftermarket screens that fit into a real GBA and too are rather different from the originals, does that make your GBA not a GBA anymore?)
So "accurate" is usually limited to, uhhh, "what in a regular desktop PC would be inside the case", excluding interchangeable user interface elements (after all most home consoles don't come with a display and eventually develop a plurality of input devices too), and it would suffice to get right the virtual pixels generated by the "emulated" GBA CPU (that may not be accessible from outside the FPGA, at least with common gaming firmware) as well as the data coming out of the EXT1 link port (it does have one... right?)
Of course, by this definition, most backwards compatible consoles are not accurate to the original, which I hope is not shocking news to anyone (ah, I bet you've already seen that link lol)
, indeed "compatible" is another word in emulation lingo that refers to a positive achievement of quality but one that's more subjective and lower than "accurate"!
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There are different "levels" you can look at a CPU.
The first one is the "code level". You can put code in a CPU and it will run it. The commands will tell the different components what to do (e.g. use ALU to add 1 and 2). I'd say that a software emulator usually emulates on this level. It can interpret "command to add 1 and 2" to use it's own ALU to add 1 and 2, even if another instruction is used in the target system. The translation work between instructions is the emulator. It can be pretty much perfect but it can also be unprecise and lead to errors. one example is if the shift operator is defined differently. It's used to shift the binary values to the left or right. E.g. 1010 >> 2 = 0010. But it can also be 1110 (if the first bit is repeated for the shift instead of that 0 gets shifted in). But it can also be 1010 if the value that gets shifted out at the right gets put back in at the left side. A good emulator has to make sure that this is done properly according to the hardware it emulates.
Then there is the boolean logic level. Every function of the CPU works by calculating with 0 and 1 values. For example, to add 1 and 2, the ALU contains full adders which can be described as boolean functions. This is the level that FPGAs "reproduce". But the FPGA "programmer" has to know the correct configuration of logical components. The most precise way is probably to decap the original chip and "read" the gate configuration from what you can see. But if there are no photos, the original functionality has to be approximated by different means, e.g. by testing how the real hardware reacts and then by replicating that on an FPGA. It depends on the approach and the "programmer" how good this reimplementation is. But an FPGA has some advantages over CPUs which can make it easier to be more precise, especially in timing: if the FPGA is big and fast enough, the FPGA can implement the same logic as the original CPU. By that it can communicate with original cartridges, controllers and link ports.
But this is not the "lowest level". Original hardware is implemented in transistors and similar components. The FPGA doesn't contain transistors (it does but they don't serve the same purpose): the functionality is implemented in memory blocks instead of transistors. But in some edge cases, the behaviour of the CPU depends on the transistors and actual cables in the CPU: things like rise times (the time it takes signals to get from 0 to 1, it can't be instantly), inteference for cables that are near other cables etc. would have to be reimplemented by the FPGA designer and they are probably hard to catch.
That's the theoretical part. Then there is also the pratctical part:
Do we want to have to original experience with hard to see displays, wired controllers, mono sound and bad image cables or do we want to have the best experience possible with modern improvements? To take this into perspective, in my opinion this is a "console elitest" discussion. For PC games, there is no "definitive way" to play games: the performance depends on the hardware and some games run too fast if the hardware is too good. But in general for PC gaming, better hardware = better gameplay experience and improvements with mods or similar things are welcome. So I really don't know how important this discussion actually is and how important a few ms less lag actually are. And I write this as an Analogue Pocket owner (but I also know that it's not "perfect". There are actual cartridges that can detect if they are booted in an analogue pocket or in an OG gameboy).
Also, there are differences between original consoles. One example is the EZ Flash Jr. which has problems with the GB Pocket and/or GB Light. How important is this discussion if the gameplay can vary by original console and not only between original and clone consoles?
The first one is the "code level". You can put code in a CPU and it will run it. The commands will tell the different components what to do (e.g. use ALU to add 1 and 2). I'd say that a software emulator usually emulates on this level. It can interpret "command to add 1 and 2" to use it's own ALU to add 1 and 2, even if another instruction is used in the target system. The translation work between instructions is the emulator. It can be pretty much perfect but it can also be unprecise and lead to errors. one example is if the shift operator is defined differently. It's used to shift the binary values to the left or right. E.g. 1010 >> 2 = 0010. But it can also be 1110 (if the first bit is repeated for the shift instead of that 0 gets shifted in). But it can also be 1010 if the value that gets shifted out at the right gets put back in at the left side. A good emulator has to make sure that this is done properly according to the hardware it emulates.
Then there is the boolean logic level. Every function of the CPU works by calculating with 0 and 1 values. For example, to add 1 and 2, the ALU contains full adders which can be described as boolean functions. This is the level that FPGAs "reproduce". But the FPGA "programmer" has to know the correct configuration of logical components. The most precise way is probably to decap the original chip and "read" the gate configuration from what you can see. But if there are no photos, the original functionality has to be approximated by different means, e.g. by testing how the real hardware reacts and then by replicating that on an FPGA. It depends on the approach and the "programmer" how good this reimplementation is. But an FPGA has some advantages over CPUs which can make it easier to be more precise, especially in timing: if the FPGA is big and fast enough, the FPGA can implement the same logic as the original CPU. By that it can communicate with original cartridges, controllers and link ports.
But this is not the "lowest level". Original hardware is implemented in transistors and similar components. The FPGA doesn't contain transistors (it does but they don't serve the same purpose): the functionality is implemented in memory blocks instead of transistors. But in some edge cases, the behaviour of the CPU depends on the transistors and actual cables in the CPU: things like rise times (the time it takes signals to get from 0 to 1, it can't be instantly), inteference for cables that are near other cables etc. would have to be reimplemented by the FPGA designer and they are probably hard to catch.
That's the theoretical part. Then there is also the pratctical part:
Do we want to have to original experience with hard to see displays, wired controllers, mono sound and bad image cables or do we want to have the best experience possible with modern improvements? To take this into perspective, in my opinion this is a "console elitest" discussion. For PC games, there is no "definitive way" to play games: the performance depends on the hardware and some games run too fast if the hardware is too good. But in general for PC gaming, better hardware = better gameplay experience and improvements with mods or similar things are welcome. So I really don't know how important this discussion actually is and how important a few ms less lag actually are. And I write this as an Analogue Pocket owner (but I also know that it's not "perfect". There are actual cartridges that can detect if they are booted in an analogue pocket or in an OG gameboy).
Also, there are differences between original consoles. One example is the EZ Flash Jr. which has problems with the GB Pocket and/or GB Light. How important is this discussion if the gameplay can vary by original console and not only between original and clone consoles?
Last edited by Technicmaster0,
I doubt Analogue [or anyone else, for that matter] cares enough for that to happen. And newer hardware components will almost inevitably deliver a different experience, even if they're improvements [faster loads, "crisper" sound, etc.]. I didn't put enough thought into it, seems like.
IMO, it's still a GBA, maybe more GBA than a Switch running Retroarch, but it's not the "intended" experience, if such a thing exists. I don't think there are any decent aftermarket GBA screens, though.
I've not played any PC games other than VNs, so I can't speak as to what accuracy means in that sphere, but for consoles, I'd expect the "expected" experience would be on a popular period accurate TV unless you can afford a PVM which might've been closer to what a developer would use. The output itself stays the same except, which can't be said of the Pocket.
Yes, because they actually look better than modern tech with these on:
Never used a flash cart, and I've never myself heard of real GB games running worse on the Pocket/Light. I do have all three, though, so it's a non-issue if it exists.
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I like this bit, since your ponderance here also leaves room for practical "upgrade mods" to original hardware, of which I am a big fan.
Ex. The smeary blurry mess that is the PSP-1000's stock screen has a practically drop in IPS replacement that reduces the cons of the original display tenfold. Brighter and more vibrant with more accurate color and less motion blur.
FWIW I'd advocate for the ITA screen option. This is the lower screen from a DSi. They sell kits with a screen included, I don't know if those are newly made aftermarket (and if so, do they perform identically to the old ones) or are actual vintage screens from somewhere, but personally I bought the cables and salvaged a screen from a real DSi. It's the same size and resolution as the original GBA screen, with the old-school pixel grid, it's backlit well, has similar colour reproduction, and doesn't have the noticeable ghosting of the AGS-101 screens. To me it feels like how the GBA should have looked, and is a much more authentic option than the popular IPS mods.
I would describe accurate as same cycle speeds, same rendering resolution, many original glitches present with no new ones you'd see in regular gameplay added, same controller layout and full (physical and/or replicated) accessory compatibility.
A lot of 90s console games were designed specifically to take advantage of how 90s CRT displays rendered pixels, so I'd recommend a CRT TV or 4K CRT simulation filter if you're playing 90s console games. Retro handheld games often look better with grid-lines, and color mapping to simulate the look of the color displays the devs designed for.
Some people will argue you need to use a subpixel layout filter for GBC/GBA, though the only game I've read about the GBC's subpixel layout mattering is Pikachu's cheeks in Pokemon Yellow's title screen, a game which was developed for monochrome GBs and SGB and only gained a GBC mode using it's SGB colors when brought over internationally (in other words, the website didn't know what they were talking about).
A lot of 90s console games were designed specifically to take advantage of how 90s CRT displays rendered pixels, so I'd recommend a CRT TV or 4K CRT simulation filter if you're playing 90s console games. Retro handheld games often look better with grid-lines, and color mapping to simulate the look of the color displays the devs designed for.
Some people will argue you need to use a subpixel layout filter for GBC/GBA, though the only game I've read about the GBC's subpixel layout mattering is Pikachu's cheeks in Pokemon Yellow's title screen, a game which was developed for monochrome GBs and SGB and only gained a GBC mode using it's SGB colors when brought over internationally (in other words, the website didn't know what they were talking about).
I'd say it's closer to simulation, or a very low-level emulation (LLE) because all the circuit logic is simulated to behave as close to the original system as possible.
I think someone has a new GBA emulator on the way for MiSTer that is cycle-accurate. When it's finished, I bet it gets ported to the AP.
I think someone has a new GBA emulator on the way for MiSTer that is cycle-accurate. When it's finished, I bet it gets ported to the AP.
+1
Also, just my hunch but I think the ITA screens that are available are new manufacture, just to the specs of a DSi lower screen. It doesn't make any financial sense that they would be harvested from old DSi's and then sold at less than the DSi was worth intact. Also these screens do not come with the touch panel film over the screen that would have been on the real DSi screens, which is another tell that they're new manufacture and also is better because those touch films have a tendency to yellow with time.
I've built three "custom" GBA's using Funnyplaying's laminated ITA kit. The screen comes laminated to a tempered glass bezel, which seals the display from lint intrusion. There are 10 brightness settings (you'll probably set one and leave it forever), a frame blending feature to improve transparency display (turn it on, leave it on), and adjustability of the x and y axis to get the 240x160 pixels used by the GBA centered perfectly. The only downside is that a custom shell from Funnyplaying is required for use with this screen.
Here's one of the GBA's I 'built.' I could write a lot more about how to get everything tuned right so the screen doesn't flicker, and also how to eliminate the touch control for the on screen display to change the options I described above. I prefer doing those adjustments with just the physical buttons on the console, rather than tapping my finger on the top of the GBA, but that's just my preference. Anyone who gets serious about doing this mod can pm if they want more info.
I guess you could call it the same size once letterboxed but it's not a 240 x 160 screen. I feel like using a screen from a donor SP is a decent compromise if lighting is a must. And even if you harvest the screen from a real DSi, the mod introduces new, non-original components from what I see, so there's that.
I do play them on CRTs but it's kinda hard to find a period accurate one where I live. Everything I have is from the 2000s or later.
I think you're 100% right on that, because you can still buy brand new top and bottom screens for the DSi and DS Lite currently.
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