How Progressive Is Japan

[kuwanger]

Gay couples in Japan join together on Valentine's Day to sue government over same-sex marriage ban

Discuss

 

[DKB]

Might get some hate for this, but the motherfuckers ain't breeding. If they're not breeding, and people also want to be gay as well, well, the government is going to go into panic mode.

Which, this seems like why they banned it.

..Not sure actually why but I feel like this may be one of the reasons.

 

[Lacius]

Might get some hate for this, but the motherfuckers ain't breeding. If they're not breeding, and people also want to be gay as well, well, the government is going to go into panic mode.

Which, this seems like why they banned it.

..Not sure actually why but I feel like this may be one of the reasons.

Why didn't they ban infertile or elderly people from marrying? Or couples who just didn't want to have kids?

 

[The Catboy]

A lot might think Japan is "progressive" due to their

Might get some hate for this, but the motherfuckers ain't breeding. If they're not breeding, and people also want to be gay as well, well, the government is going to go into panic mode.

Which, this seems like why they banned it.

..Not sure actually why but I feel like this may be one of the reasons.

Marriage isn't about having kids. Still, by your logic, they should ban any married couples without, unable, or not wanting kids, they should also ban the elderly from getting married. In short, a ban on same-sex marriage isn't going to bring up the birthrates

As for the topic, sometimes I am shocked that Japan banned same-sex marriage and other times I'm not. The LGBT+ is often seen more as "fetish" in Japan and the modern Japanese culture is more pro-exploiting the LGBT+ than supporting the LGBT+.

 

[DKB]

Why didn't they ban infertile or elderly people from marrying? Or couples who just didn't want to have kids?

Then you'd be banning most of the country, I guess. Most of Japan are old, and there isn't much couples anymore. They'd rather just fuck their pillows or robots. Or, they're just too busy. Mostly the latter.

 

[Lacius]

Then you'd be banning most of the country, I guess.

Then why pick on the gays, or anybody for that matter? Same-sex couples also do raise children sometimes.

 

[Hanafuda]

Japanese cultural is historically quite accepting of homosexuality. But just as with western cultures, maybe even more than western cultures, there's really a difference between accepting homosexuality in a society, and accepting gay marriage. Why? Because to accept gay marriage, the culture not only has to be accepting of gays in the first place, but also accepting of the DEFINITION of the word marriage being changed, rather drastically. It took time here. It will take time there, too.

Anyway, to the OP's original question, 'how 'progressive' is Japan?' --- I would answer that you really can't measure any Asian culture by the American/Eurocentric yard stick we impose on our own society, so try learning more about the Japanese before you try to check them by your terms only. Having been involved with Japanese culture since 1985, having lived there almost 3 years, and having been married to a Japanese person (now naturalized US citizen) for almost 20 years ... I'd say the Japanese are miles ahead of the west on some moral/social issues, and backward as FUCK on others.

 

[Lacius]

Because to accept gay marriage, the culture not only has to be accepting of gays in the first place, but also accepting of the DEFINITION of the word marriage being changed, rather drastically.

It's been done many times, before anyone cared about gay people.

 

[The Catboy]

It's been done many times, before anyone cared about gay people.

To be fair, most people just pretend there was no history before rampant Westernization.

 

[Paolosworld]

*insert horrible joke about gay people here*

 

[Hanafuda]

It's been done many times, before anyone cared about gay people.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean there, but not arguing. Consistent with the rest of my post, you can't expect or impose the same expectations of progressive social change on a foreign culture, especially one as distinct as Japan's. They adopt Western systems and ideas at the pace their culture can take it. Which is rather quickly in most cases. And like I said, Japanese culture has been generally more accepting of homosexuality than the West for hundreds of years ... but on other social matters they can be quite prudish. If you expect that to change overnight because your Western values say it must, then you're no different or better than Christian missionaries who went around the world in the 1500's assuming their beliefs were naturally superior to those of the 'savages.'

 

[Captain_N]

I really need to stay in japan for a few months. them hawt Japanese babes must be waiting for Americans like me..
At least japan dont kill gays like a lot of middle eastern countries...

 

[notimp]

Japan, progressive?

Lets see.

- Have a word for filthy foreigners? Check.

- Only recently lightened regulations on immigration, even though your median population age reached 46? Check.

- Expect politicians to step down in disgrace when they can not keep face? Check. (https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...panese-prime-ministers-keep-resigning/239850/)

- Have your own version of free market capitalism, thats not free and not capitalism? Check. (https://hbr.org/1992/07/capitalism-in-japan-cartels-and-keiretsu)

- Expect people to work more and sleep less than in every western democracy, have a cultural concept around working for the same company all your life being an honor? Check. Have a word for sleeping at work, because people simply fall asleep at work on that regiment? Check.

- Have a word for young people who dont do sex anymore, because of cultural aspects prohibiting mating, when you dropped to too low of a social class? Check.

- Still have your own emperor (But thats actually fine, because constitutional monarchie)? Check.

The thing is, we kind of love them for it though... (Own culture)

 

[Deleted-479522]

Japan is pretty strictly conservative but at the same time they generally enforce conformity via social pressure (and not legal pressure).

I don't think Japanese people care per se about LGBT but I do think that

1. They would not have an issue applying social pressure (as they do with even the way you hold your chopsticks).
2. Their conservatism would be they would wish to protect marriage in a traditional manner and I do not think they would accept that preventing gay marriage is depriving gay people of anything.

 

[notimp]

Ah, and watch
Kikujiro (1999) (Kikujirô no natsu)

- because thats the best film about the culturally normal custom of mothers abandoning their children (leaving them to be raised by their grandparents) to be able to integrate into japanese society again, after something as 'normal' as a divorce. They probably have a word for that as well.

Oh - spoilers... (But most people watching the movie, dont even recognize, that thats what its about. )

Gotta love Beat Takeshis movies.

Also, killer soundtrack.

edit: Or at least watch the trailer. Make sure subtitles are tuned on on the youtube clip.

 

[notimp]

Also, the patriarchy is well and alive in Japan of course.

But working doesn’t mean that these single mothers are doing well, economically. The poverty rate of single parent-families where the parent is working is 56 percent, which is also the highest in the OECD.

(OECD = developed countries, basically)

src: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/japan-is-no-place-for-single-mothers/538743/

I think thats about all that I can think of, when it comes to progressive Japan.

Yes they are about as conservative as it gets. They are about as nationalistic as it gets. And they are about as stubborn as it gets. (If there arent enough people, why not replace them with robots?) You've gotta love them..

 

[notimp]

No - I've got one more.

Their private capital investment rate currently is at 24% of GDP, while that of the EU is at 17% and that of Germany or France is at 18%. US is at 16.5%.

Thats interesting you say - so wheres that money coming from. Well...

However, in comparison to Western nations, Japan’s capital stock was significantly lower, especially given the size of its population. Again over the next several decades Japan managed to create a capital stock equal to the advanced nations by 1985. This was done by elevated levels of investment. Between 1960 and 1985 the average annual private investment rate was 35.1 percent, a full four percentage points higher than Germany, nearly 10 above France, and 14 above the US and UK. In fact, even compared to the rest of the countries in the table, Japan’s private investment rate was second only to Singapore.

Minami (1994) provides an excellent analysis of the importance of capital formation and investment in Japan’s economic success story. Unlike the experience of many other Western nations that were latecomers such as Australia, Canada, Italy, Germany, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden who achieved industrialization at a later stage than other advanced Western nations, Japan did not develop its capital stock by importing capital from abroad through net imports of foreign capital: Japan relied almost exclusively on domestic savings to finance the capital investment (Ibid., 152-53). Of course the high household savings rate in Japan compared to other nations was the main feature which allowed this.

src: https://books.google.com/books?id=Mo2QBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA19

This basically means, that japanese people invest their money in japan. And almost exclusively in japan.

Thats odd you say, because apparently japan has been in a recession quite a few times since the 1990s

Well, you see - the japanese arent that much into making a return on capital investments either. Not if it doesnt profit their national interests.

Which is kind of non progressive and odd, now that you say it - but also, very nationalistic...

 

[WiiHomebrew+Snes]

I don't know, do they bundle home and auto and have a name your price tool?.. I'll let myself out...

 

[SG854]

Japan, progressive?

Lets see.

- Have a word for filthy foreigners? Check.

- Only recently lightened regulations on immigration, even though your median population age reached 46? Check.

- Expect politicians to step down in disgrace when they can not keep face? Check. (https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...panese-prime-ministers-keep-resigning/239850/)

- Have your own version of free market capitalism, thats not free and not capitalism? Check. (https://hbr.org/1992/07/capitalism-in-japan-cartels-and-keiretsu)

- Expect people to work more and sleep less than in every western democracy, have a cultural concept around working for the same company all your life being an honor? Check. Have a word for sleeping at work, because people simply fall asleep at work on that regiment? Check.

- Have a word for young people who dont do sex anymore, because of cultural aspects prohibiting mating, when you dropped to too low of a social class? Check.

- Still have your own emperor (But thats actually fine, because constitutional monarchie)? Check.

The thing is, we kind of love them for it though... (Own culture)

Not all western countries. U.S. has Japan beat when it comes to crazy work hours.

 

[Ericthegreat]

Or couples who just didn't want to have kids?

They all don't wanna have kids until they are almost too old, that's the problem. Not gonna lie, I think they probably find it dishonorable (like many things) it's a weird part of Japanese culture. Gotta remember many of their citizens if they don't get a job feel dishonorable so they never leave they're house, or they commit suicide which also in Japanese culture is pretty much fine if you did something to dishonor yourself or your family.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan

It does seem their was a time when it wasn't discouraged, then as they pushed for westernization, that changed.