Hacking Discussion Team Xecuter Attempted to Bribe RetroNX Developers

[astronautlevel]

*sigh* how about: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic

From your own link:

But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL.

TX would be releasing their modified version.

Do you even read the links you're posting, or are you just a low effort troll?

 

[the_randomizer]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, are people actually defending those Team Xecutor douchebags and their blatant refusal to put forth their own efforts into doing things on their own? Why am I not surprised?

 

[subcon959]

I've been trying to piece together what happened here. I've seen chatlogs between Team Xecuter and m4xw and, without breaking any confidences, I don't think either side had bad intentions.

Seems this got lost in the bickering. I'm not going to assume anything but one thing that did spring to my mind was that it could've been a misunderstanding or miscommunication. Anyway, the thread would've turned out exactly how it has even if there was nothing nefarious going on.

 

[Insane]

From your own link:



TX would be releasing their modified version.

Do you even read the links you're posting, or are you just a low effort troll?

A bit of both!

But yes I agree TX will have to release the source. The developer contacted: only to TX.

 

[Deathscreton]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, are people actually defending those Team Xecutor douchebags and their blatant refusal to put forth their own efforts into doing things on their own? Why am I not surprised?

1. Welcome back Random, haven't seen you in quite awhile.
2. If TX is in the name, you can almost guarantee something shady is fuckin' happening. In this case, it backfired and TX Shills are still trying to back them up. Let people like what they like I guess. *shrug*

 

[the_randomizer]

1. Welcome back Random, haven't seen you in quite awhile.
2. If TX is in the name, you can almost guarantee something shady is fuckin' happening. In this case, it backfired and TX Shills are still trying to back them up. Let people like what they like I guess. *shrug*

You haven't? I've been back for two and a half years just about oO but yes, TX can suck it for all I care, they're never getting a cent from me.

 

[Deathscreton]

You haven't? I've been back for two and a half years just about oO but yes, TX can suck it for all I care, they're never getting a cent from me.

I was referring to you wanting to take a break. I hadn't seen you for a bit, so I figured you had done so. Muh bad!

 

[the_randomizer]

I was referring to you wanting to take a break. I hadn't seen you for a bit, so I figured you had done so. Muh bad!

It's fine, just...a lot going on. Been trying to follow the Switch scene, but it's exploded and I haven't the foggiest idea on where to begin. I don't think it's worth it, seeing as there's
no true permanent CFW for 6.x.x (yes, I know you can still load homebrew). That, and the fact you have to use a dongle every bloody time you boot the system up, yeah, it's
not where I want it to be.

 

[Essasetic]

If TX couldn't get any lower lol. I already have plenty of shit that I can update my list with now.

 

[NeoSlyde]

If TX couldn't get any lower lol. I already have plenty of shit that I can update my list with now.

Have you added this in your list:
Played a big role in financing the GBATemp's Homebrew Contest ?

 

[Essasetic]

Have you added this in your list:
Played a big role in financing the GBATemp's Homebrew Contest ?

Despite everyone hating them. Alright fine that's one decent thing they've done. But this is really ironic considering that twitter post. They're funding the homebrew scene and destroying it at the same time.

 

[alepman90]

That’s how business works not “bribing” per se. Good for them offering money instead implementing it without permission

 

[FAST6191]

But nobody wants to listen to your well thought out response. We just want to use our pitchforks! /s

Hmm, I want some pitchfork action against me.

Let us play how would TX be able to pull this off under the letter of the law but still get their own effectively exclusive build.

At its heart libretro is a frontend for emulators. It seems as well this dev made their own frontend/ui (which as previously covered counts as their own work and thus could be withdrawn). Assume that plays. There are not many developers of great potency working on the Switch (it is a closed device with annoying hacks and of no great power or technical interest) so it should not be too hard to make offers there to buy people off as it were*. Would not work for X86 firefox but far more viable here.
Alternatively it should be possible to basically do all those obfuscation contest tricks (redefine aspects of the language, minimal variable names, false trails and so forth. Better yet as the Switch has some small amount of power over say a PSP which happily emulated 16 bit and older devices, and a few from after that era as well, you could probably afford to burn some cycles and still have playable emulation) and just release uncommented text files. Stuff it on some constantly changing (but available) location, or possibly if it is still “make available to users of your software” and you can get away with emailing them said same after a request then that. Anybody that goes and finds the source now has 400 hours time needed to unpack your uncommented, obfuscated spaghetti.

*here it seems there are those that won't play but historically it has been a worthy gambit.

They presumably make a custom launch path for the said binary program – if it is not a XCI or NSP executable then most people are screwed and they control the OS in this scenario. A bit of obfuscation here never hurt anybody either. Most of this could probably be done without worrying the DRM rules some open source things have, if you can wind in your DRM like you have for the OS stuff then cool.

Each of the emulators gets called modules in the libretro parlance and that is indeed interesting as it would be where I head. Much like XBMC/Kodi merely provides a means to launch those video download plugins and some kind soul makes them and makes them available then fantastic. You strip all reference to libretro from you official communications a la all those custom firefox builds, however much like everybody calls the Chinese action cameras gopro clones then you know places like here will make the connection for you. Anyway provide an API/plugin framework and you are good to go.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, are people actually defending those Team Xecutor douchebags and their blatant refusal to put forth their own efforts into doing things on their own? Why am I not surprised?

If I am unwilling or unable to do something myself I pay someone to do it for me... it has been the case since before recorded history. This thread seems to quite literally be discussing a payment offer for some potential services.

 

[iriez]

For the record, I'm the one who contacted the RetroNX developers at the request of Team Xecuter. It was my understanding that they wanted to donate to the project in exchange for a possible support forum on the TX boards to drive more traffic there. They didn't say anything to me about wanting to make the app exclusive to the mod or I never would have agreed to facilitate contact between them, since the Libretro devs and I go way back.

As someone who goes way back, you should know the history behind TX. This has been done multiple times and its their M.O. Its not an entirely unreasonable business plan, they are attempting to create unique TX-Only software solutions. This is done in many industries.

Where this goes wrong is that we are discussing open source software that is already provided to the community for free.

The better way to look at it, is that the public is subsidizing TX's profits. TX wanted to pay m4xw $6k cash, for what would probably be 6 figures of profits if there was not a competitor in the space (someone else releases a openGL retroarch). This means that instead of the community receiving the benefits of community driven open source software projects, they are paying TX in the form of profit from TX hardware + license sales.

As proof, here is this happening roughly 10 years ago, almost same exact scenario except it was c4e building a custom FW for a new xbox360's security model.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/a-memoir-team-hyperx-liteon-encryption.194333/

 

[JoeBloggs777]

This is a portion of what TX told him
''
Can you maybe expand a bit on what the current status of your retroARCH port is?
I understand you are ambitious to write a custom UI for reotroARCH from scratch,
but from a time-efficiency point of view this would set us back quite some months.
This also goes for porting Qt etc. to switch. They would be nice *future* goals
but for now we are mostly interested in getting an emulator frontend integrated ASAP.

You can either provide us with source code or an NRO and we will take care of the
actual integration into TX menu. Right now it seems easiest to me if we have some
button or menu inside our TX menu that will bring up the retroARCH frontend, and a
way to go back to TX menu from the retroARCH frontend.

The user interface, user experience and rom folder structure should be consistent.
Everything needs to be branded with Team Xecuter of course, please let us know
what graphics assets you need. (type of asset, limitations, dimensions, mockup UI screenshots)''
I know what hearsay means and i don't see what that has to do with this

offering to pay for something is not TX style and a few have posted on here they are chinese hackers, thier english seems pretty good

again maybe I'm wrong after all they offered a job to Pragma

 

[Essasetic]

Pragma only compiled other people's code. If he took the job. Wonder how long he lasted xD

 

[the_randomizer]

Hmm, I want some pitchfork action against me.

Let us play how would TX be able to pull this off under the letter of the law but still get their own effectively exclusive build.

At its heart libretro is a frontend for emulators. It seems as well this dev made their own frontend/ui (which as previously covered counts as their own work and thus could be withdrawn). Assume that plays. There are not many developers of great potency working on the Switch (it is a closed device with annoying hacks and of no great power or technical interest) so it should not be too hard to make offers there to buy people off as it were*. Would not work for X86 firefox but far more viable here.
Alternatively it should be possible to basically do all those obfuscation contest tricks (redefine aspects of the language, minimal variable names, false trails and so forth. Better yet as the Switch has some small amount of power over say a PSP which happily emulated 16 bit and older devices, and a few from after that era as well, you could probably afford to burn some cycles and still have playable emulation) and just release uncommented text files. Stuff it on some constantly changing (but available) location, or possibly if it is still “make available to users of your software” and you can get away with emailing them said same after a request then that. Anybody that goes and finds the source now has 400 hours time needed to unpack your uncommented, obfuscated spaghetti.

*here it seems there are those that won't play but historically it has been a worthy gambit.

They presumably make a custom launch path for the said binary program – if it is not a XCI or NSP executable then most people are screwed and they control the OS in this scenario. A bit of obfuscation here never hurt anybody either. Most of this could probably be done without worrying the DRM rules some open source things have, if you can wind in your DRM like you have for the OS stuff then cool.

Each of the emulators gets called modules in the libretro parlance and that is indeed interesting as it would be where I head. Much like XBMC/Kodi merely provides a means to launch those video download plugins and some kind soul makes them and makes them available then fantastic. You strip all reference to libretro from you official communications a la all those custom firefox builds, however much like everybody calls the Chinese action cameras gopro clones then you know places like here will make the connection for you. Anyway provide an API/plugin framework and you are good to go.


If I am unwilling or unable to do something myself I pay someone to do it for me... it has been the case since before recorded history. This thread seems to quite literally be discussing a payment offer for some potential services.

Yes, and to retain exclusivity because "they can". No one thing, especially an API used for Switch development, should be exclusively held out of spite. It's a dick move to make and all developers should be able to use it as they will. I hate to be that guy, but TX needs to be knocked down a few rungs.

I know it's been happening for who knows how long, but, why can't people just do their own damn work once in a while? "Hard work pays off later, but laziness pays off now", is their motto.

 

[FAST6191]

Yes, and to retain exclusivity because "they can". No one thing, especially an API used for Switch development, should be exclusively held out of spite. It's a dick move to make and all developers should be able to use it as they will. I hate to be that guy, but TX needs to be knocked down a few rungs.

API for switch development? I thought we were talking about an emulator frontend?

 

[the_randomizer]

API for switch development? I thought we were talking about an emulator frontend?

Never mind. I take back that part, but all the same, trying to make this build exclusive for Team Xecutor is a stupid thing to try to do. To hell with them, I don't see why people keep sucking them off.

 

[Slartibartfast42]

What, did they really think $6k was enough to do something so illegal and wrong? You'd have to offer me $600k for me to even think about it. $6k wouldn't even cover the legal fees.