Hacking Why hasn't homebrew been released much?

[Kupie]

Alright, so I'm just wondering... we have a pretty cheap 3D-capable device, but homebrew hasn't been released for it. At all.

Do you think 3D is just a gimmick? I guess if users (and hackers alike) feel it's not worth it, then we wouldn't be seeing homebrew for this console. We've seen many homebrew apps for the DS (I remember sitting there, late at night sneaking in some IRC on my homebrew'd DS, and it was the bomb!)

Also, lately we have smartphones which can do everything we want. What can we, as users, show to homebrew devs that the 3DS deserves some attention?

I'm asking this not even at the 3DS level. We have the PS3, the Xbox 360, and the Wii out... but even then, there's not much homebrew. It's mostly about piracy and stealing games.

I feel we have some ideas missing. There's something missing from our own ideas, and that's...what can we do with an 'unlocked' system? We have android phones, we have iPhones... they're hacked all the time. We can already emulate DS games on any Android phone.

I guess my final question is: What do you think homebrew for 3DS can separate itself from a Smartphone? It has 3D capabilities, sure. But what can *truly* make it different from just buying an Android Phone for cheaper?

We beg for Homebrew. We want "more" hacking of this system. But what can it deliver? All ideas welcome.

Thanks for your neuron-electric thought patterns.

 

[Chaldron]

We have no way to run homebrew right now, as the 3DS will not load unsigned software. So even if it existed, we could not use it. What's the point making something nobody can use? (yet)

/thread

 

[Xexyz]

We have no way to run homebrew right now, as the 3DS will not load unsigned software. So even if it existed, we could not use it. What's the point making something nobody can use? (yet)

/thread

Gateway UI is homebrew.

 

[Kupie]

We have no way to run homebrew right now, as the 3DS will not load unsigned software. So even if it existed, we could not use it. What's the point making something nobody can use? (yet)

/thread

Yes, this provides a great difficulty to homebrew developers

However, we can run unsigned code on a 4.5 DS (as demonstarted by Smeagulum, and the Gateway 3DS team) for NAND dumping and redirection.

If there is a great interest, there's nothing stopping it. I definitely agree with what you've said, as developing something for Android VS a 3DS poses certain problems, especially with running unsigned code.

I work in tech support instead of programming, so I guess I'm asking this question because I actually don't know... What can we, as USERS, speed along developmenton this?

Maybe 3D is a gimmick... go ahead, tell me why. I'm open to any and all discussion on this subject. Currently as it is, I'm just wondering why my IRC client for DS can't be ran with all processing power on a 3DS. I know it's signed code, I know it's more difficult... but there must be some reason why developers would continue besides piracy, isn't it?

It's tough for the handheld market right now. We have Android phones that can do 3D imaging to us. How can we draw (homebrew) developers to the 3DS?

 

[omega]

Gateway UI is homebrew.

If you're referring to the UI ran from the blue card - it's running in DS mode and as such is not real 3DS homebrew. After exploiting it's possible to run anything unsigned, of course.

 

[Snailface]

Homebrew is out there, as it has been demonstrated countless times, but the developers say they wish to refine them before releasing.

I think previous lawsuits by Sony and Nintendo are also having a chilling effect on the homebrew scene getting started as well.

 

[rooskie54]

No 3DS Homebrew SDK = no 3DS Homebrew. It doesn't matter what ideas you can come up with for homebrew applications. Until there's an SDK available to developers there's not much of anything that can be done.

 

[Xexyz]

If you're referring to the UI ran from the blue card - it's running in DS mode and as such is not real 3DS homebrew. After exploiting it's possible to run anything unsigned, of course.

Didn't you watch the Gateway UI video?
Click 0:23

 

[Snailface]

No 3DS Homebrew SDK = no 3DS Homebrew. It doesn't matter what ideas you can come up with for homebrew applications. Until there's an SDK available to developers there's not much of anything that can be done.

That may hold the average programmer back, but a skilled programmer can write 3ds homebrew with rop chaining.

The 3ds homebrew scene wont take off untill there is an SDK, but it can certainly start if devs would start releasing demo homebrews. A RAM dumper is a perfect example of a non-SDK tool that would be extremely beneficial for advanced rop development.

 

[rooskie54]

That may hold the average programmer back, but a skilled programmer can write 3ds homebrew with rop chaining.

The 3ds homebrew scene wont take off untill there is an SDK, but it can certainly start if devs would start releasing demo homebrews. A RAM dumper is a perfect example of a non-SDK tool that would be extremely beneficial for advanced rop development.

Sure, but this thread is about homebrew taking off. "Why hasn't homebrew been released much?" Two reasons: it's not practical run and it's not practical to develop for.

 

[Vappy]

That may hold the average programmer back, but a skilled programmer can write 3ds homebrew with rop chaining.

... which is needlessly complex and impractical for writing anything but very basic applications. Hopefully all the documentation on 3dbrew will lead to an open SDK, if neimod, yellows8, smealum, 3dsguy, whoever else, aren't already working on one.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

... which is needlessly complex and impractical for writing anything but very basic applications. Hopefully all the documentation on 3dbrew will lead to an open SDK, if neimod, yellows8, smealum, 3dsguy, whoever else, aren't already working on one.

Think of it: All the beautiful ASM and C mashed together with random RAM offsets and BIOS calls... Mmmmmm...

 

[FAST6191]

I think generally that there is no public homebrew capable exploit really does not help (and homebrew coder does not immediately translate to exploit creator) and that there is no SDK or even full hardware info a la http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm for the true masochists seals the deal. Beyond that it is hard to convey just how devastating the rise of idevices (and now android) was on the homebrew scenes for the DS and PSP.
Similarly as the 3ds is arguably weaker than a lot of said idevices and android devices, it is not as wildly popular as it might have been (my GBA and DS are favourites and the more I look into the GB/GBC the more I like there, I have basically no reasons to get a 3ds) and again it is not like small handheld devices with a bit of grunt are hard to find these days (most of which do not suffer from the problems mentioned) then you also face an uphill struggle to even kick it off.

Taken as one though I doubt it will be nonexistent (there is usually someone that wants to give it a punt) I would actually be surprised if it topped the GBA's homebrew scene.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

I think generally that there is no public homebrew capable exploit really does not help (and homebrew coder does not immediately translate to exploit creator) and that there is no SDK or even full hardware info a la http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm for the true masochists seals the deal. Beyond that it is hard to convey just how devastating the rise of idevices (and now android) was on the homebrew scenes for the DS and PSP.
Similarly as the 3ds is arguably weaker than a lot of said idevices and android devices, it is not as wildly popular as it might have been (my GBA and DS are favourites and the more I look into the GB/GBC the more I like there, I have basically no reasons to get a 3ds) and again it is not like small handheld devices with a bit of grunt are hard to find these days (most of which do not suffer from the problems mentioned) then you also face an uphill struggle to even kick it off.

Taken as one though I doubt it will be nonexistent (there is usually someone that wants to give it a punt) I would actually be surprised if it topped the GBA's homebrew scene.

As a GBA ROM Hacker, I can testify of GBATek's awesomeness. The GBA is much, much easier to do ASM and C for without a proper SDK than the DS is. I can only imagine how hard it is to get 3DS homebrew up and running without a proper SDK or documentation on the hardware.

 

[WulfyStylez]

Gateway's crazy-long ROP chains were probably somewhat tool-assisted, but yeah - even then simple things are quite hard to accomplish.

What exactly is stopping us from running straight-up code, just the lack of a (legal) sdk? Or is this exploit just not at a low enough level to grant that ability?

 

[shinyquagsire23]

Gateway's crazy-long ROP chains were probably somewhat tool-assisted, but yeah - even then simple things are quite hard to accomplish.

What exactly is stopping us from running straight-up code, just the lack of a (legal) sdk? Or is this exploit just not at a low enough level to grant that ability?

For the most part it's the lack of an SDK, official or not (DevKitARM is an excellent SDK for homebrewing). It's perfectly possible to run unsigned code, but we aren't quite at the stage where any off the mill homebrew developer would be willing to write this code. There's also the issue of not having a proper homebrew platform ala the Homebrew Channel on the Wii. Developers need a way to have their code launched without weird exploits and/or single-app'd homebrew only (currently the Gateway exploit works through the DS System Settings and only runs one piece of unsigned code rather than having a menu to select other code).

So right now we can run straight up code and we are doing so successfully on 4.5, but we aren't quite at the level of full-on homebrew development. Once a suitable hack is released and a proper SDK is as well, then homebrew devs will take the leap to develop for the 3DS.

 

[Gurjas]

I'm new to homebrew and am wondering what SDK is?

 

[Xexyz]

I'm new to homebrew and am wondering what SDK is?

A tool to develop homebrew.

 

[L'Seraphic]

Bit of a lurker here since my recent purchase of my new 3DSXL.

As an owner of the NDSL and avid user of homebrew applications, it came to my disappointment that whilst the 3DSXL is built with a large display, it is equipped with crippling applications that are too rudimentary to be used.

The potential of the 3DSXL seems to be limited, much attributed to Nintendo's part. Not sure if hardware is the limitation, but I thought the Internet Browser could have rendered more things than just spew out text.

Not a rant, but highly eager to see the development of homebrew applications in the near future.

 

[Pleng]

I'm new to homebrew and am wondering what SDK is?

Software Development Kit

On a very basic (and exaggerated somewhat in both directions) level, it allows a programmer to use a piece of code that says something like "draw this picture at this point of the screen", as opposed to having to know the memory structure of the 3DS and write "00111010111011100011100111110101000100100111100001010101110...."