Logic behind Christianity?

[quote name='mcp2' post='3767342' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:22 PM']-------8<-----
I, and many others, don't see how you can believe in God and not worship God.[/quote]

The same way I can believe that an architect created my local shopping mall, yet I feel no need at all to worship him.

[quote name='mcp2' post='3767369' date='Jul 10 2011, 04:36 PM']Can't you think about it from our point of view?[/quote]
But your point of view is "this doesn't make sense to me," when I'm saying that it does to other people. Just because you can't understand why somebody would think a certain way doesn't mean it's unlikely for people to think differently from you.

[quote name='spinal_cord' post='3767377' date='Jul 10 2011, 10:40 PM'][quote name='mcp2' post='3767342' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:22 PM']-------8<-----
I, and many others, don't see how you can believe in God and not worship God.[/quote]

The same way I can believe that an architect created my local shopping mall, yet I feel no need at all to worship him.
[/quote]
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While God doesn’t need our worship in order to be complete, our worship is still a duty—something that we owe to God. But it is a duty that we can perform cheerfully, knowing that, in doing so, we are participating briefly in the life of heaven.

DING DANG DING DANG

Whatever you need to get through life is your business, I suppose. If you feel you need to believe in a God of some kind to give you hope for the future, you go right ahead. But remember that's what you felt YOU needed. Nobody should ever have religion crammed down their throats. If there's one thing I cannot stand it's 'God Botherers' such as Jehova's Witnesses. If I want a lecture on something you can't back up, I'd have damn well asked. Don't bug me at home, or in the street. You wanna believe, you go ahead. But I don't recall asking you to 'save my soul'. And when you can't even offer anything other than theories on why your own soul is saved, I don't in all seriousness think you should be trying to save anyone else. What if you're wrong but another religion is right? You'd be condemning people with your actions.

Personally I chose to believe in a few things. I believe in reincarnation because it's pretty much scientific fact. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, physics 101. So when we die the energy powering out bodies has to go somewhere, usually into the soil via burial. That energy in the soil allows new life to grow, which in turn feeds the great cycle of life, allowing all of nature to live and grow. It's not quite the Gaia theory, which still has a few holes in it. But it's as close to scientific truth as I can find in a religion.

But at the most basic level, I believe in myself, my friends, and the moral code we've chosen. I think that's all I need to truly believe in to be a good person. If there is a God watching and judging us all, I think he'd rather see righteous action in the pursuit of a paradise on earth than watch us bow and scrape and waste this life worrying about the next one.

[quote name='lex luthor' post='3767390' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:49 PM']our worship is still a duty[/quote]

Wow, you just brought the worst word ever invented into a religion-discussion. This cannot end well.


Seriously, what the hell? "Duty" is something mankind made up completely on it's own.

And it is complete nonsense.

Whether you use it in combination with patriotism (another completely idiotic concept) or in combination with believing in a god (something that one decides to believe inside his own mind cannot have anything like a duty forced upon it).

[quote name='Depravo' post='3767085' date='Jul 10 2011, 02:20 PM']Logic and religion are mutually exclusive. Logic encourages us to question whilst religion demands we blindly accept.[/quote]

That's actually untrue. Many aspects of Christianity allow people to question it, and the world around us. It's just a common misconception that if you question it, you're a heathen and are going to hell or that it's a sin.
As a Christian myself, I believe in God and the Bible, however, there are many aspects that confuse me and make little sense. I try to ask as many knowledgeable people as I can and get their different opinions on it. I am encouraged to research and read the bible and pray, and try to figure it out on my own. In the end, I end up going for the simplest, but most believable answer because I think the bible shouldn't be complicated.

I don't think God made the Bible difficult to understand. I think people made it difficult to understand.

Do what I do. Believe in a Creator, when you need help, pray to the Creator. If something is powerful enough to create us then there must be some connection between us. So yeah, Christianity might be wrong, hell all religions might be wrong, but for life to form and evolve by sheer luck seems pretty difficult to believe, but for there to be a God that really gives the free will just to taunt you with it is even harder to believe. No God could ever be so narsacistic to really damn you for eternity for not worshiping. Biblically speaking, God had angels to worship him. God made man to worship him but gave him the option to do so. But to not worship means eternal damnation thus rendering free will useless. So yeah, Creator + Faith - Religion = Happy Camper

I facepalm whenever I see religious people try to prove God.

For two reasons:

1)99.9% of them do not know what a 'proof' is
2)Even if they did have a valid proof, they believe if they prove there exists a God then that makes their religion more true (which it does not).

Can't we all just realize that logic and religion don't mingle together well?

Once we do that, the world can be a better place.

The bible is filled with contradictions, hate, incest, and slavery. I believe in a God, or a Creator, but the one in the bible isn't it. I've been Christian my whole life, did you know its a sin to wear 2 different types of fabrics

[quote name='Hebon' post='3767473' date='Jul 10 2011, 10:33 PM']I don't think God made the Bible difficult to understand. I think people made it difficult to understand.[/quote]

...because people made the bible before they had a sound grasp of what they were talking about (creation etc.)

I'm Muslim, but I question Afterlife, IMO I think after we die, there is just total darkness, nothing. And when the world ends, there'll be nothing but dark matter. I remember having these thoughts while on bed every night (like 9 years ago) and would get really scared and not sleep for like an hour or so.

[quote name='Shoat' post='3767452' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:22 PM'][quote name='lex luthor' post='3767390' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:49 PM']our worship is still a duty[/quote]

Wow, you just brought the worst word ever invented into a religion-discussion. This cannot end well.


Seriously, what the hell? "Duty" is something mankind made up completely on it's own.

And it is complete nonsense.

Whether you use it in combination with patriotism (another completely idiotic concept) or in combination with believing in a god (something that one decides to believe inside his own mind cannot have anything like a duty forced upon it).
[/quote]

If you learn to read the complete reply instead of just quoting one word to reply something that doesn't have anything to do with the essence of my reply things would be more understandable.

[quote name='Zetta_x' post='3767499' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:44 PM']I facepalm whenever I see religious people try to prove God.

For two reasons:

1)99.9% of them do not know what a 'proof' is
2)Even if they did have a valid proof, they believe if they prove there exists a God then that makes their religion more true (which it does not).[/quote]
Do you have proof God doesn't exist? What we have are 2 unprovable theories that are fighting it out at the moment. I for one don't care what people believe and just let people be as much as I can. There are some things I think are just cons (spiritualism, horoscopes etc.) and will never agree with though. Faith Healers for instance are often just at it to con people out of money on their religious belief which is just cruel.

the most interesting thing in religion is that it remains the same in all ages ...

long time ago the church sayed "burn the witches" because there were people with knowledge to help people beyond the believe of god.
than there were "scientists" that were murdered by the church because they did blasphemie.
now the scientists are idiots that say there was evolution and a big bang ... noone should ever believe science they should burn scientists again -.-V

not to sure about other religions cuz i was only thaught christian things but still most of what they did was evil, even in our times with aids and whatnot they say condoms suck ... well ok not sure about latests discussions think the newest papst guy allowed it ?
what good did the church ever do ?

[quote name='Jamstruth' post='3767517' date='Jul 10 2011, 03:52 PM'][quote name='Zetta_x' post='3767499' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:44 PM']I facepalm whenever I see religious people try to prove God.

For two reasons:

1)99.9% of them do not know what a 'proof' is
2)Even if they did have a valid proof, they believe if they prove there exists a God then that makes their religion more true (which it does not).[/quote]
Do you have proof God doesn't exist? What we have are 2 unprovable theories that are fighting it out at the moment. I for one don't care what people believe and just let people be as much as I can. There are some things I think are just cons (spiritualism, horoscopes etc.) and will never agree with though. Faith Healers for instance are often just at it to con people out of money on their religious belief which is just cruel.
[/quote]
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. There is no need for evidence against god if there is no evidence for god.

[quote name='PyroSpark' post='3767068' date='Jul 10 2011, 12:11 PM']I've looked into this before, but it seems that whenever I get close to believing, something comes up and makes me say "wait, what?" and puts me back to square one.So, is it possible to be a Christian if you're a logical thinker AND have not been raised with religion?[/quote]
Just read the Bible and decide for yourself. If you finish the Bible you will have done something that the majority of Christians never do.

[quote name='Jamstruth' post='3767517' date='Jul 10 2011, 10:52 PM'][quote name='Zetta_x' post='3767499' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:44 PM']I facepalm whenever I see religious people try to prove God.

For two reasons:

1)99.9% of them do not know what a 'proof' is
2)Even if they did have a valid proof, they believe if they prove there exists a God then that makes their religion more true (which it does not).[/quote]
Do you have proof God doesn't exist? What we have are 2 unprovable theories that are fighting it out at the moment. I for one don't care what people believe and just let people be as much as I can. There are some things I think are just cons (spiritualism, horoscopes etc.) and will never agree with though. Faith Healers for instance are often just at it to con people out of money on their religious belief which is just cruel.
[/quote]

I never said anything about God not existing, I'm saying religious people trying to prove God exist are just wasting their time because it doesn't infer anything about their religion is accurate. So I don't know why you spent the time to quote me and to write that paragraph.

Besides, everyone has a different idea of what God is. If God is an omnipotent being that can do anything, by logic that is contradicting. But then religious people say God is above logic, then the same people try using logic to prove God exists which is contradictory because they just said God is above logic.

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TL;DR Proving there exists a God does not prove your religion is accurate, people vary the definition of God making it seem impossible to prove/disprove.

[quote name='Youkai' post='3767529' date='Jul 10 2011, 05:59 PM']the most interesting thing in religion is that it remains the same in all ages ...

long time ago the church sayed "burn the witches" because there were people with knowledge to help people beyond the believe of god.
than there were "scientists" that were murdered by the church because they did blasphemie.
now the scientists are idiots that say there was evolution and a big bang ... noone should ever believe science they should burn scientists again -.-V

not to sure about other religions cuz i was only thaught christian things but still most of what they did was evil, even in our times with aids and whatnot they say condoms suck ... well ok not sure about latests discussions think the newest papst guy allowed it ?
what good did the church ever do ?[/quote]
The church did a lot to keep society in order and to prevent primitive people from killing others or themselves.

Personally, I feel that the church is no longer needed, as we now have the power and technology to do that without the fear of an all seeing bundle of clouds.

Religion is belief without proof, any solid proof of God (or whatever) would no longer make it religion but fact.

Any attempts to prove a "God" fail (Google the first cause arguement, design arguement etc)

Though any attempts to disprove "God" have no damaging disproof (save the "free choice" thing but that is disproved by a simple timeline [there is no such thing as "free choice" as everything is predetermined])

I normally stay out of these threads, since the far side of both sides tend to attack peoples opinions/beliefs. There's a difference between disscussion and attacking you know.

[quote name='_Chaz_' post='3767544' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:10 PM']The church did a lot to keep society in order and to prevent primitive people from killing others or themselves.

Personally, I feel that the church is no longer needed, as we now have the power and technology to do that without the fear of an all seeing bundle of clouds.[/quote]

I agree with your reasons why church is no longer needed. Not only do they take an abundance amount of money to maintain, but it has to be one of the biggest reasons why a single religion will branch out in multiple variations because it's mainly ran on people's subjective ideas about religion.

We have the Bible, that should be all is needed for people to have faith and build onto their religion. Plus, big churches dedicated towards one religion is like a kick in the face to everyone elses religion. There is a Church near my house that has a giant billboard with the words "Jesus Loves You" and "Get back to Church". How intrusive...

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While we can all agree religion threads can turn into flame fests, we all must admit, these threads are one of the few topics that encourage lots of thinking.