My take on the recent gay marriage bill in New York

APOLOGIA AND/OR RANT: I am a Marxist and will likely stay one in the foreseeable future. I am also a fervent supporter of the LBGT movement. If you do not like either of these positions, tough. For those who would like to discuss gay marriage here, welcome! This is my first blog post and I wanted to try and make it elaborate. I will not pretend that I have thought everything out yet. What follows is my impressions and conclusion from reading articles on the subject. I have only referenced two because they are the most obvious to my case. Enjoy.--In order to understand the limitations of the gay marriage bill in New York state, it is appropriate to appreciate the social and political context it was created in. The United States is, and has been entering a profound crisis that is, at its root, embedded in the capitalist system upon which it stands. The common refrain of the bourgeoisie and their apologists is typical. "There's no money." "We need to make sacrifices." One gets a sense that the media, while denouncing and vilifying communism on the one hand, demands that the masses make "collective" efforts to give up what little restitution they have left, on the other. What is the result? The political power of the American proletariat has been gutted by the leadership of the union bureaucracy, in conjunction with the speculators of Wall Street. Obama's entire withdrawal "plan" will leave 68,000 US troops inside the impoverished, war-torn country into 2011--roughly double the number of US soldiers and Marines who were deployed there when the so-called Democratic president took office at the beginning of 2009. The dirty and illegal colonial war has gone on now for eight years. The masses are disgruntled by Obama's capitulation to the policies of his predecessor. The right wing responds by seeking to capture and seduce them by appealing to their weaknesses and their anger. The greed of the bourgeoisie and the war effort have nearly bled the American masses white. A social explosion may be close at hand.To have positive news of social progression in the US, then--any at all--can be seen as a nearly humbug effort. But then the events at the New York Senate seems to flash a gleam of hope. Perhaps not all is lost, even in these harrowing times? Unfortunately, not yet. The celebrations, however positive and justified, are premature. A closer examination of articles on the subject reveals a troubling paragraph: <a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/06/24/2011-06-24_gay_marriage_legal_in_new_york_state_after_senate_passes_historic_bill_.html" target="_blank">http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2...oric_bill_.html</a><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The decision [to legalize gay marriage] also came after Cuomo and legislative leaders agreed on language to ensure that religious groups cannot be sued if they refuse to cater to gay couples.It would also block the state from penalizing, discriminating against or denying benefits to religious groups. They would not be stripped of their tax-exempt status or their property tax breaks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->In other words, churches would no be under any obligation to administer marriages. This is the worst part, to be found in this article: <a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57749_Page2.html" target="_blank">http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57749_Page2.html</a><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cuomo, the assembly&#8217;s majority Democrats and state senate Republicans agreed to the exemptions Friday afternoon. The key sticking point was a clause that throws out the entire bill if any part of it is voided in the courts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is worse than a flaw. It is my opinion that this is a fatal, <i>Faustian bargain</i> with organized religion. Gays gain the "legal" right to marriage and are basically prohibited from pursuing any religious opposition that may arise through the courts. The bill will be thrown out if the courts take the side of the homosexuals. This is not to mention that their marriages can only transcend boundaries in five other states. In the broad context, the bill is nearly worthless.But this conclusion does not permit pessimism for me, contrary to those who may interpret it that way. Nor does it invalidate the struggle for gay marriage. Gay marriage may eventually be passed under capitalism, but full, <i>human</i> equality in this matter and others <i>cannot be realized while capitalism survives</i>. The bourgeoisie is by and large hostile toward the LBGT movement. They are incapable of satisfying the demands for civil rights and social equality since its existence allows their hegemonic rule. Gay marriage cannot, in the end, be realized through legislation. It must be <i>taken</i> by the class conscious proletariat utilizing the means that the bourgeoisie will likely force them into: Large-scale civil war.

Comments

[quote name='A Gay Little Catboy' post='3740036' date='Jun 26 2011, 10:27 PM'][quote name='lex luthor' post='3740028' date='Jun 26 2011, 05:23 PM']I stated one or two points but wasn't accepted. Even if I have an absolute reason you wouldn't accept it against what you think is right. The difference is that you go ranting at me and I don't do that to you.[/quote]
Because as I said, baseless. Repeating the same uneducated "facts" that are just as equally baseless, doesn't help your case. Plain and simple.
[/quote]
...and because you think they are uneducated you may have the right to insult my opinions...I didn't insult yours.

Anyways posting in this thread is pointless....my reasoning is the reasoning of many more people that obviously won't post here just to avoid arguments like this. I just been honest to you no need to get mad at me. There so much hypocrisy these days here and there that make me laugh.

Hope you realize what you wish for...no hard feeling on this end.

This my last post in this thread

Love.
 
[quote name='lex luthor' post='3740046' date='Jun 26 2011, 05:36 PM'][quote name='A Gay Little Catboy' post='3740036' date='Jun 26 2011, 10:27 PM'][quote name='lex luthor' post='3740028' date='Jun 26 2011, 05:23 PM']I stated one or two points but wasn't accepted. Even if I have an absolute reason you wouldn't accept it against what you think is right. The difference is that you go ranting at me and I don't do that to you.[/quote]
Because as I said, baseless. Repeating the same uneducated "facts" that are just as equally baseless, doesn't help your case. Plain and simple.
[/quote]
...and because you think they are uneducated you may have the right to insult my opinions...I didn't insult yours.

Anyways posting in this thread is pointless....my reasoning is the reasoning of many more people that obviously won't post here just to avoid arguments like this. I just been honest to you no need to get mad at me. There so much hypocrisy these days here and there that make me laugh.

Hope you realize what you wish for...no hard feeling on this end.

This my last post in this thread

Love.
[/quote]
I tried not to start shit with you, I honestly did, but you can't expect me not to say anything when it comes down to something I have been fighting for for many years.
I just hope one day you will understand what I am fighting for and why I will go to the extremes to get it.
 
lex luthor: Please go back to hatching evil plots to take over the world. (Everyone knows you're a closet homo anyway.)
 
I personally dont care. They should be allowed to be happy too, its not like they "Chose" to be gay.
 
[quote name='A Gay Little Catboy' post='3739677' date='Jun 26 2011, 06:27 PM'] I just happen to be a homosexual, but that does not define me. [/quote]
I support equality for all citizens before the state as I have already stated. But seriously are you trolling with that comment. I mean have you looked at your user name or your posts on other threads. Let me be clear, if anybody else on here had said that I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.
 
Although I don't agree with them, I believe lex luthor has the right to his opinions. If you're allowed to believe homosexuality is perfectly normal and okay, then why isn't he allowed to believe that it isn't? It's hypocrisy to me. Whether his views are right or wrong, they're his views, and he's entitled to hold them. I don't even know why I bother to type this though, because no one in this thread will agree with me, and I'll likely be accused of trolling or trying to start a flame war.
 
[quote name='Miss Panda' post='3740082' date='Jun 26 2011, 06:01 PM'][quote name='A Gay Little Catboy' post='3739677' date='Jun 26 2011, 06:27 PM'] I just happen to be a homosexual, but that does not define me. [/quote]
I support equality for all citizens before the state as I have already stated. But seriously are you trolling with that comment. I mean have you looked at your user name or your posts on other threads.
[/quote]
My username has deeper meaning behind it than it's face value. It's a simple fact, I am gay, but there is more to me than just that.
 
[quote name='PeregrinFig' post='3740083' date='Jun 27 2011, 12:02 AM']Although I don't agree with them, I believe lex luthor has the right to his opinions. If you're allowed to believe homosexuality is perfectly normal and okay, then why isn't he allowed to believe that it isn't? It's hypocrisy to me. Whether his views are right or wrong, they're his views, and he's entitled to hold them. I don't even know why I bother to type this though, because no one in this thread will agree with me, and I'll likely be accused of trolling or trying to start a flame war.[/quote]

Truthfully, i agree with you. Everyone deserves thier opinion, though at the same time, theres always a group of people on either side with an opinion that will take it too damn far.
 
We have gotten about as much positive discussion out of this thread as we are going to get.

So I am just going to close this now.

What I would ask from you guys for the future is to consider this. What do these threads ever achieve? From what I see, pretty much nothing. So next time you guys feel the need to make one of these threads, just think to yourselves, "what is the point in posting this?" before you hit the make new topic button.

Because it irks me to say this, but I am seriously close to getting to the point where I will just start closing these threads on sight from now on. They really arent worth the trouble to moderate. And always end up locked.

Thread closed.
 
my 2 cents:
Monogamy is dying and so is marriage. Over 50% of marriages end in divorce. Sometimes marriage puts an unnecessary strain on a relationship and both parties are forced to notice flaws that they wouldn't have bothered with before. The point of life is not to be happy or fulfilled but the avoid sadness and despair. The pursuit of happiness is always the funnest part in the journey of life.
Also, ins't like America the only country where religion is still BIG? Idk, never really cared much for it, not important enough to rant against it
 

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