Hacking ethics

Make that 200$ if you don't have a 4.5 3DS.

But I agree, I've made this point several times before. People consider piracy of currently released games to be so much worse than pirating older games, for no reason at all. How can you make an NES emulator and seriously expect everyone to rip their own copies of the games which is nearly impossible nowadays?? I think it has to do with the fact that recently released games are more readily acquired than older ones, but no matter what system or year the game was released on, it's still piracy.

Is it just games that are currently for sale in stores that are unethical to copy?

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No, but NES developers are not expecting any further income for their work, aka they are not waiting a paycheck that depends on how well the game sells. (The nes is like 25 years old?)

Personally I'm for adding as much functionality as possible and letting everyone else choose their own moral path.

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Then add it yourself.

forcing someone to pay $100 for a hack...

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No one is forcing you. Stop being a brat.

I think it's about keeping the system alive. Nintendo isn't going to start manufacturing and supporting a new Super Nintendo, because you really want to play all the old games. If piracy on 3DS games was super easy and became super widespread before the 3DS was replaced by the next generation, Nintendo could take a huge hit to their profits and stop 1st party support of 3DS. Other companies may be reluctant, as well.

The best justification that i can think of is that older games can already be pirated on PC/IOS/Tablets etc., so you're not introducing any new significant levels of piracy by allowing the same games be played on newer platforms (like 3DS). Cracking a new system to pirate previously unplayable games is introducing new piracy -- and mostly it affects devs/ publishers in the process of desperately trying to recoup dev costs and turn profit on a game in the make-or-break new-release timeframe.

So yeah, based on this logic, there is a huge moral distinction between Gateway and ssspwn.

Technically, NES/SNES emulation is piracy. But if you are just raising this argument in an effort to get a free means of playing 3DS roms, it won't work.

They are not the same thing, although they are both piracy. One has a far far greater financial impact on Nintendo than the other, and a greater impact on the production of new games.

ANU815 said:

Sure an SNES game is worth about $1 now and I guess the devs are retired by now, but aren't you still allowing someone the means of playing a stolen (albeit older) game?

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WHAT?!
What kind of country do you live in which SNES games are being manufactured and sold like bubblegums?

ShadowOne333 said:

WHAT?!
What kind of country do you live in which SNES games are being manufactured and sold like bubblegums?

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They aren't being manufactured anywhere. The only people making money from SNES games are resellers. Nintendo/3rd party devs already made all the money they are going to make from SNES games, outside of possible VC re-release.

sgtkwol said:

They aren't being manufactured anywhere. The only people making money from SNES games are resellers. Nintendo/3rd party devs already made all the money they are going to make from SNES games, outside of possible VC re-release.

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Yeah I know, I was just quoting and asking him about the so called "SNES games being sold at like 1$", which is nearly impossible.
Just open up eBay, you can see no SNES game being sold nearly for that price.

Out of that, I think it is not mainly about ethics but about what is legal at the end.
You gotta ask yourself:
"Do I own the game? Do I have the rights to use a copy of it for myself?
What are the consequences of using roms if I don't own the game?"

And so on.
If you owned the game, it is fine for me to use an emu for such game.

There's a very obvious difference between pirating games that are no longer in print and games that are being actively sold. This is debate territory and I don't personally believe in the whole concept of a "lost sale", however consider this: if you go to a video game store and buy a new game, some of the money goes to the developers of said game. If you buy a SNES game on eBay, none of the money goes to the developers because the game is used and long since out of production.

Not only that, you're not actually supposed to play downloaded ROM's on emulators. Emulators are merely means to an end - playing games that you want to play on devices that do not support them natively. You can just as easily own the games that you play on emulators, in which case you can't really talk about piracy, rather about alternative methods of getting the software to work.

Anywho, this thread can be summed up with one sentence: "Gibe rOmLoader plox fur free k?". No, it's not okay. If a developer doesn't feel comfortable with giving you a tool to load legal or perhaps illegal backups then you're not getting one. What right do you have to place demands when you haven't contributed to the process of hacking in any shape or form? You want a ROM loader? Learn how to hack and make one, don't beg for one.

I'm not sure your ebay example should be a good one, as someone could say it doesn't matter whether they buy a game used or pirate it, because either way none of their money is going to the developer. This stands regardless of whether the game is or is not in production.


As for the topic, I'm of the belief that anyone can do what they like, but it's double-faced to break open a system because someone believes it should not be a closed garden and limit the user, but then puts up their own fence. Oftentimes this is arbitrary and simply holds back others. Eventually others get through the fence regardless.

Celice said:

As for the topic, I'm of the belief that anyone can do what they like, but it's double-faced to break open a system because someone believes it should not be a closed garden and limit the user, but then puts up their own fence. Oftentimes this is arbitrary and simply holds back others. Eventually others get through the fence regardless.

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You're free to jump over that fence and open up the system yourself if you don't like playing by the rules. I don't see what's so "wrong" about this - smealum is giving you a strictly homebrew-oriented loader that does everything a loader should do except for launching 3DS backups - you're either okay with that or you don't use his loader - it's that simple. If you're looking for ROM's then buy a Gateway. Ah, yes - Gateway costs money, right? We don't want to spend money, we just want everything for free...

Don't pull wool over my eyes, this is explicitly about people wanting everything for free.

ANU815 said:

So, just something I need to put out there since I've seen this come up in other scenes like PSP, Vita and maybe others.

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It's come up here too, maybe you should use the search function.

If you don't live a Dev's stance on some software, then code it yourself how you like it to be, otherwise, STFU.

They are doing something apparently you can't do, you aren't paying them to do it, so why the heck should they conform to your views? Grow up, the world isn't about what you think you are entitled, but what people actually do. If you don't like it, get developing software yourself.

I'm saying this to all of you peeps who make stupid threads like these thinking the world owes you. It doesn't. You don't like it, then program it yourself.

endoverend said:

People consider piracy of currently released games to be so much worse than pirating older games, for no reason at all.

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No reason at all?
If you buy an NES game today, the people who made that game will receive $0. If you download a ROM image of that game from the internet, the people who made that game will receive $0.
If you buy a currently released game, the people who made that game will receive a nominal fee according to some publisher contract they've signed to get their game released. If you pirate that same game (or buy it second hand, for that matter) those people get nothing.

As much as everyone likes to think otherwise, the games industry doesn't run on good will and some juvinile sense of gamer pride, it runs on money. People have mortages to pay, families to feed, and if game development can't pay the bills, developers will find other employment.

one more thing you should note.......has smealum actually made any emulators?

snore

ShadowOne333 said:

Yeah I know, I was just quoting and asking him about the so called "SNES games being sold at like 1$", which is nearly impossible.
Just open up eBay, you can see no SNES game being sold nearly for that price.

Out of that, I think it is not mainly about ethics but about what is legal at the end.
You gotta ask yourself:
"Do I own the game? Do I have the rights to use a copy of it for myself?
What are the consequences of using roms if I don't own the game?"

And so on.
If you owned the game, it is fine for me to use an emu for such game.

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in my country in a local shop it selling nes/snes/gameboy games for 1-3 euros

not only that virtual consoles is popular now with Nintendo so i think you have a point emulator do harm and i've always said that , but there is an important part that we all have to understand , it's them hackers who work hard in order to hack, it's them who decide which ethics they follow! so we should stop complaining.

Same thing is happening over on the Wii U scene, it's fucking terrible. Why not give the people full access, but just not support the piracy side of it? Let other people support it, it's not like Nintendo is gonna bang your door down for something you didn't do.

Funny - Sony banged on Geo Hotz' door just for releasing a key on his website. Don't argue ethics with people who work tirelessly to give you *free* hacks - take them or leave'em.