Gaming Zelda's Twilight Princess Rumoured for New 3DS

[osaka35]

I don't know nothing? Double negative, bud.

Linguistically, there are many languages and dialects that use double negatives to emphasis the negative. Flat English frowns upon it, but many dialects of English use it in everyday speech. Southern US English, for example, uses it frequently.

Sorry, I know it doesn't matter terrible, I just find such things fascinating.

I want link's awakening remake!

I would love that! though, as I recall, wasn't link's awakening, oracle games, and minish cap handled by capcom? I wonder how that would factor into having remakes of them.

 

[Clarky]

ehhh, I ain't got much faith in this one happening, maybe on the Wii U but even then that seems a stretch

 

[sarkwalvein]

If you have a major in a relevant field, and you still believe a Twilight princess port is not possible on an original 3DS console, then you need to find farm work or something else you are more suitable to.

Hint: A console to handheld port is not just a recompile you know. They can make modifications to lower the requirements of the port while still presenting relatively the same visual experience on the handheld. For example, the port would need a lower resolution anyway, so that cuts the gpu requirement right there. You can lower a little the number of triangles, the size of textures, the view distance etc, since those don't matter much on a 3,5in screen anyway... Also, they can use the vastly better read times of cardridges, more ram, and more advanced gpu architecture, to cover for some other disadvantages. Do you understand now?

Show me how we can be having Wii ports on the original 3DS console already, and games like Monster Hunter 4U, and a GAMECUBE PORT LIKE TWILIGHT PRINCESS (Which is really a gamecube game=weaker than a 3DS) is definitely not possible on an original 3DS console...

Kid, i don't really believe you work in this field. Learn to respect those who do and learn from them a thing or two...

Yes, of course.
A port of Twilight Princess is even possible in a Commodore 64 if you are committed to wash it down enough and perhaps beyond recognition.
Of course a piece of hardware like the 3DS, even being rather underpowered compared to the GameCube or Wii, could harbor a Twilight Princess port.
Actually, probably N64 power is enough to keep most TP gameplay intact (washed out graphics, but that is OK).

PS: But as in both cases (N64, C64) the original map data, models, textures would have to be simplified, basically remade from ground up, you should probably call it a remake, not a port... Castlemaster style Zelda TP remake, in glorious 1 FPS, I can imagine that.

 

[TemplarGR]

Yes, of course.
A port of Twilight Princess is even possible in a Commodore 64 if you are committed to wash it down enough and perhaps beyond recognition.
Of course a piece of hardware like the 3DS, even being rather underpowered compared to the GameCube or Wii, could harbor a Twilight Princess port.
Actually, probably N64 power is enough to keep most TP gameplay intact (washed out graphics, but that is OK).

Oh see, another "programmer" stating nonsense...

Kid, the 3DS hardware is more powerful than a gamecube. Go to wikipedia, see the hardware specs, and if you have even the slightest of knowledge, compare them. End of discussion. Seriously.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Oh see, another "programmer" stating nonsense...

Kid, the 3DS hardware is more powerful than a gamecube. Go to wikipedia, see the hardware specs, and if you have even the slightest of knowledge, compare them. End of discussion. Seriously.

Do you really want to be put in shame of your words so much?

 

[TemplarGR]

Do you really want to be put in shame of your words so much?

Yeah. Please, by all means, since i am bored and i prefer others do the work, copy paste here the 3DS hardware specs and the Gamecube specs (twilight is a gamecube game).

And then repeat those stupid arguments about porting to Commodore and N64, like the difference is that big...

Please, demonstrate who should be ashamed...

 

[sarkwalvein]

Yeah. Please, by all means, since i am bored and i prefer others do the work, copy paste here the 3DS hardware specs and the Gamecube specs (twilight is a gamecube game).

And then repeat those stupid arguments about porting to Commodore and N64, like the difference is that big...

Please, demonstrate who should be ashamed...

No, I don't care enough.
Whenever you check them yourself, think about the processor architecture. If you have the ability.
Realize it yourself, or if you still want to live in your own self delusion, good for you.

PS: And nevertheless, I also think a washed down standard 3DS version can be made, but the point I am attacking is that you keep saying 3DS raw processing power is bigger than GameCube raw processing power, and that is not true.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

-Forget this post-

 

[TemplarGR]

Nintendo 3DS
CPU: 266MHz ARM11 X 2
GPU: DMP PICA220 133MHz (MAX 200MHz) - Polygons: generates 15.3 million per second at its native 200MHz
RAM: 64MB of RAM, 4MB of dedicated VRAM,
1.5GB of flash storage.

Gamecube
CPU: 485MHz IBM Gekko PowerPC
GPU: ATI Flipper 162MHz - Polygons: 20 million per second
RAM: 24MB 1T-SRAM, 16MB DRAM
source: http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/3ds-vs-gamecube-specs-27458555/

Those 3DS specs are wrong.

Go to 3dbrew.org for a better list...

From the top of my head, the 3DS has 128mb ram, and 6mb vram. The PICA gpu is clocked at 266mhz, same as the cpu. Those 2 Arm11 processors have the 2 vector coprocessors, they are not the standard smartphone units.

The 3DS also uses the ARM9 133mhz for sound etc.

Actually, no one cares about polygons for gpus anymore. Polygons are not a serious gpu metric. It is only a PR blank statement.

The Gamecube gpu has 8gflops of performance, while the 3DS is close to 6.4, but with a better architecture and a lower resolution to display to.

Last but not least, the 3DS has a vastly better game medium. 3DS games can be much bigger than Gamecube's (just compare rom sizes and keep in mind the 3DS could use 8gb carts), and with a really fast read access.

So, how is a Twilight princess port entirely not possible? Unless you drop it to N64 levels?

Monster Hunter 4U, Resident Evil Revelations, Super Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7, Donkey Kong Returns, etc. The lists goes on... Games either ported from the Wii (better than the gamecube), or better than the Gamecube comparable games.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Oops, sorry. I got new specs from 3dbrew for 3ds and wikipedia for gamecube

Specs correction

Spoiler

Nintendo 3DS

Type​

Name​

Datasheet​

Source​

SoC Nintendo 1048 0H (Custom): CPU, GPU, VRAM & DSP all on one chip. N/A N/A
ARM11 Processor Core ARM11 MPCore 2x 268MHz(~268123480 Hz) & 2x VFPv2 Co-Processor [1] [11]
ARM9 Processor Core ARM946 134MHz(~134058675 Hz) [2] N/A
GPU DMP PICA 268MHz N/A [11]
DSP CEVA TeakLite. Based on Atmel AT75C. 134Mhz. 24ch 32728Hz sampling rates. N/A [11] [3]
VRAM

6 MB within SoC. Independent of system memory (FCRAM). N/A [11]
FCRAM 2x64MB Fujitsu MB82M8080-07L [4][5][6] [5]
Storage Toshiba THGBM2G3P1FBAI8 1GB NAND Flash N/A N/A
Power Management Texas Instruments PAIC3010B 0AA37DW N/A FCC filing
Gyroscope Invensense ITG-3270 MEMS Gyroscope [7] N/A
Accelerometer ST Micro 2048 33DH X1MAQ Accelerometer Model LIS331DH [8] N/A
Wifi 802.11b/g Atheros AR6014 [9] N/A
Infrared IC NXP infrared IC, "S750 0803 TSD031C" [12] [10]
Auxiliary Microcontroller Renesas Electronics UC CTR, custom Nintendo microcontroller N/A N/A
? "TI 93045A4 OAAH86W" N/A N/A

Gamecube

• 485 MHz IBM "Gekko" PowerPC CPU based on 750CXe and 750FX

• 162 MHz ATI "Flipper" GPU (8.6 GFLOPS)
• 43 MB total non-unified RAM
  • 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM (codenamed "Splash") as main system RAM
  • 3 MB embedded 1T-SRAM within "Flipper"
  • 16 MB DRAM used as I/O buffer for audio and DVD drive

 

[TemplarGR]

Oops, sorry. I got new specs from 3dbrew for 3ds and wikipedia for gamecube

Specs correction

Nintendo 3DS

Type​

Name​

Datasheet​

Source​

SoC Nintendo 1048 0H (Custom): CPU, GPU, VRAM & DSP all on one chip. N/A N/A
ARM11 Processor Core ARM11 MPCore 2x 268MHz(~268123480 Hz) & 2x VFPv2 Co-Processor [1] [11]
ARM9 Processor Core ARM946 134MHz(~134058675 Hz) [2] N/A
GPU DMP PICA 268MHz N/A [11]
DSP CEVA TeakLite. Based on Atmel AT75C. 134Mhz. 24ch 32728Hz sampling rates. N/A [11] [3]
VRAM

6 MB within SoC. Independent of system memory (FCRAM). N/A [11]
FCRAM 2x64MB Fujitsu MB82M8080-07L [4][5][6] [5]
Storage Toshiba THGBM2G3P1FBAI8 1GB NAND Flash N/A N/A
Power Management Texas Instruments PAIC3010B 0AA37DW N/A FCC filing
Gyroscope Invensense ITG-3270 MEMS Gyroscope [7] N/A
Accelerometer ST Micro 2048 33DH X1MAQ Accelerometer Model LIS331DH [8] N/A
Wifi 802.11b/g Atheros AR6014 [9] N/A
Infrared IC NXP infrared IC, "S750 0803 TSD031C" [12] [10]
Auxiliary Microcontroller Renesas Electronics UC CTR, custom Nintendo microcontroller N/A N/A
? "TI 93045A4 OAAH86W" N/A N/A

Gamecube

• 485 MHz IBM "Gekko" PowerPC CPU based on 750CXe and 750FX

• 162 MHz ATI "Flipper" GPU (8.6 GFLOPS)
• 43 MB total non-unified RAM
  • 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM (codenamed "Splash") as main system RAM
  • 3 MB embedded 1T-SRAM within "Flipper"
  • 16 MB DRAM used as I/O buffer for audio and DVD drive

That's better.

-CPU wise, while the power pc cpu is clocked higher, it is not much better than the 3DS cpu capabilities. The 3DS has 2 cores, 2 auxiliarry vector units, and a 3rd ARM9 cpu for sound and IIRC some other tasks. Depends on the code, but it is not a big difference, and it doesn't matter so much for video games anyway, the gpu is the stuff that really makes or brakes the ability to play games

-Ram wise, there is no contest, really. I mean, really. 43mb RAM non unified ram vs 128, no contest here. And although for a Twilight port more ram wouldn't normally do much good, good devs could probably exploit it with smart tricks to give the 3ds an edge...

-GPU wise, the Gamecube and the 3ds are about in the same league. In raw power the Flipper is somewhat better, BUT the PICA is more advanced in terms of architecture and effects, and it has a smaller output target, so it doesn't need to have the same power. The 3DS needs to display 400x240, while the Gamecube was 480p. 4 times less pixels people...

Also, the game medium is better for the 3DS, so again devs could use "creative tricks" to give an edge to the 3ds port, while on the gamecube, much of the coding tried to overcome the limits of disk access and low general purpose ram...

There is no doubt a Twilight princess port is possible on the original 3ds handheld.

But of course Nintendo will say "it is only possible on the New 3DS", and millions of lemmings will buy that...

 

[TemplarGR]

No, I don't care enough.
Whenever you check them yourself, think about the processor architecture. If you have the ability.
Realize it yourself, or if you still want to live in your own self delusion, good for you.

PS: And nevertheless, I also think a washed down standard 3DS version can be made, but the point I am attacking is that you keep saying 3DS raw processing power is bigger than GameCube raw processing power, and that is not true.

I won't address the "if you have the ability part". Try to understand the mhz myth before we continue. More mhz for the gamecube cpu doesn't mean it is more powerful, when the 3ds has 3 cpus...

As for your PS, were you are trying to salvage your position, my original argument was always about the 3DS being capable of having gamecube and wii ports. Those ports have already happened in some capacity. Now, a port from console to handheld is almost never a straight thing. For example the resolution is typically lower.

In terms of raw power, this is a more tricky situation. If you really want to be technical about it, the 3 arm cpus with their vector co-cpus combined, are better. But this doesn't work like that in the real world for many reasons. Still, the cpu is always the least important bit for video games. On your PC, what is more important for graphically demanding games, GPU and to a second extend RAM, or CPU? What would you upgrade in order to have better graphics?

 

[sarkwalvein]

That's better.

-CPU wise, while the power pc cpu is clocked higher, it is not much better than the 3DS cpu capabilities. The 3DS has 2 cores, 2 auxiliarry vector units, and a 3rd ARM9 cpu for sound and IIRC some other tasks. Depends on the code, but it is not a big difference, and it doesn't matter so much for video games anyway, the gpu is the stuff that really makes or brakes the ability to play games

-Ram wise, there is no contest, really. I mean, really. 43mb RAM non unified ram vs 128, no contest here. And although for a Twilight port more ram wouldn't normally do much good, good devs could probably exploit it with smart tricks to give the 3ds an edge...

-GPU wise, the Gamecube and the 3ds are about in the same league. In raw power the Flipper is somewhat better, BUT the PICA is more advanced in terms of architecture and effects, and it has a smaller output target, so it doesn't need to have the same power. The 3DS needs to display 400x240, while the Gamecube was 480p. 4 times less pixels people...

Also, the game medium is better for the 3DS, so again devs could use "creative tricks" to give an edge to the 3ds port, while on the gamecube, much of the coding tried to overcome the limits of disk access and low general purpose ram...

There is no doubt a Twilight princess port is possible on the original 3ds handheld.

But of course Nintendo will say "it is only possible on the New 3DS", and millions of lemmings will buy that...

The 3DS has to render 800x240 pixels if you want 3D, so it is 62% the pixel output of the GC.
That is not a problem anyway, a port could be made even so.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I won't address the "if you have the ability part". Try to understand the mhz myth before we continue. More mhz for the gamecube cpu doesn't mean it is more powerful, when the 3ds has 3 cpus...

As for your PS, were you are trying to salvage your position, my original argument was always about the 3DS being capable of having gamecube and wii ports. Those ports have already happened in some capacity. Now, a port from console to handheld is almost never a straight thing. For example the resolution is typically lower.

In terms of raw power, this is a more tricky situation. If you really want to be technical about it, the 3 arm cpus with their vector co-cpus combined, are better. But this doesn't work like that in the real world for many reasons. Still, the cpu is always the least important bit for video games. On your PC, what is more important for graphically demanding games, GPU and to a second extend RAM, or CPU? What would you upgrade in order to have better graphics?

Hey, you don't know me, you don't know about my knowledge, but you go full offensive on people.
The way you addressed me a couple of messages before, as another "programmer" (note the quotes there) really upset me.
I know about computer architecture, even if I am not very proficient in the subject I have studied it far enough to know how insignificant MHz are if you don't take into account the architecture.
Sorry, I answered with that "ability" part out of rage, that was immature on my part.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

I think Gamecube CPU is more powerful than 3DS, even if 3DS is dual-core, but it makes sense since a powerful CPU would drain battery life on the 3DS.
The 3DS can make a lot of things that the Gamecube just can't, but I believe the most CPU heavy gamecube games might need the new 3DS to run smoothly.

 

[TemplarGR]

The 3DS has to render 800x240 pixels if you want 3D, so it is 62% the pixel output of the GC.
That is not a problem anyway, a port could be made even so.

IIRC, the game still processes 400x240 and then with a certain algorithm doubles the pixels for 3d, so it is not that heavy on the gpu calculations.

Still, although this will not be just a recompile, Twilight princess is possible with the power of the 3DS.

 

[TemplarGR]

Hey, you don't know me, you don't know about my knowledge, but you go full offensive on people.
The way you addressed me a couple of messages before, as another "programmer" (note the quotes there) really upset me.
I know about computer architecture, even if I am not very proficient in the subject I have studied it far enough to know how insignificant MHz are if you don't take into account the architecture.
Sorry, I answered with that "ability" part out of rage, that was immature on my part.

I apologize for any offense too.

 

[HitBattousai]

As others have said, discounting programming knowledge, logically the old 3DS can play Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate and the new 3DS can play Xenoblade Chronicles. Xenoblade has yet to be determined for certain since the game isn't out yet, but from the videos it would appear at best to be a minuscule drop in quality off the Wii version(if even that), and that was arguably the most graphics intensive game on the Wii. Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate runs rock solid on even the old 3ds. There isn't a question in my mind that either version of the 3DS can handle Twilight Princess should they choose to bring it to the system. The only thing that I do question is whether or not it would receive an actual visual upgrade beyond the 3D. And like others, I would honestly rather see a focus on a new Zelda game, particularly over Twilight Princess. The game is great don't get me wrong and I'd rather have it over nothing Zelda-related being made, but it's not even ten years old yet and almost everyone that has a Wii has that and/or Link's Crossbow Training. Whereas as least with Ocarina of Time it is a classic that was over the ten year mark and a lot of people missed out on Majora's Mask because you needed the RAM pack and the N64 was near the end of its life cycle.

 

[MyJoyConRunsHot]

Those 3DS specs are wrong.

Go to 3dbrew.org for a better list...

From the top of my head, the 3DS has 128mb ram, and 6mb vram. The PICA gpu is clocked at 266mhz, same as the cpu. Those 2 Arm11 processors have the 2 vector coprocessors, they are not the standard smartphone units.

The 3DS also uses the ARM9 133mhz for sound etc.

Actually, no one cares about polygons for gpus anymore. Polygons are not a serious gpu metric. It is only a PR blank statement.

The Gamecube gpu has 8gflops of performance, while the 3DS is close to 6.4, but with a better architecture and a lower resolution to display to.

Last but not least, the 3DS has a vastly better game medium. 3DS games can be much bigger than Gamecube's (just compare rom sizes and keep in mind the 3DS could use 8gb carts), and with a really fast read access.

So, how is a Twilight princess port entirely not possible? Unless you drop it to N64 levels?

Monster Hunter 4U, Resident Evil Revelations, Super Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7, Donkey Kong Returns, etc. The lists goes on... Games either ported from the Wii (better than the gamecube), or better than the Gamecube comparable games.

Actually, the ARM9 handles the OS, there is a decidcated sound card.

The GCN has 1.9 Gflops, the 3DS likely has more than that since it has dedicated dual-core VPF co-processors. Also Ironfall is enough proof the 3DS is more powerful.

 

[MyJoyConRunsHot]

That's better.

-CPU wise, while the power pc cpu is clocked higher, it is not much better than the 3DS cpu capabilities. The 3DS has 2 cores, 2 auxiliarry vector units, and a 3rd ARM9 cpu for sound and IIRC some other tasks. Depends on the code, but it is not a big difference, and it doesn't matter so much for video games anyway, the gpu is the stuff that really makes or brakes the ability to play games

The ARM11 has more transistors, smaller nm, more cache, faster and newer architecture, longer more effiecient pipelines, 64-bit bus support, thumb2 and a host of other advantages.

-Ram wise, there is no contest, really. I mean, really. 43mb RAM non unified ram vs 128, no contest here. And although for a Twilight port more ram wouldn't normally do much good, good devs could probably exploit it with smart tricks to give the 3ds an edge...

To be more precise, 96MB is allowed for games, still crushes the GCN.

-GPU wise, the Gamecube and the 3ds are about in the same league. In raw power the Flipper is somewhat better, BUT the PICA is more advanced in terms of architecture and effects, and it has a smaller output target, so it doesn't need to have the same power. The 3DS needs to display 400x240, while the Gamecube was 480p. 4 times less pixels people...

The Pica200 has more advanced shader effects than the flipper, that alone puts it above the flipper in its objective function. Its not possible to directly compare console and handheld GPUs because they're made for different screens (3DS: 800x240, 3.5 screen" vs (GCN: 480p, 30" screen). The poly count is also decent for its screen size.