Hacking Potential reason for random errors on N3DS after downgrading?

[fr3quency]

Yes you can delete them, they were installed by 9.3 and would not be present on an O3DS 9.2 system.

Thanks for the reply. Is there something I can do on my end if I screw up? Is there a better alternative to FBI(don't get me wrong, I use FBI over anything else, but the letters/numbers are small and almost side by side. This "surgery" must be a success; I don't want to screw up )

 

[Aroth]

Thanks for the reply. Is there something I can do on my end if I screw up? Is there a better alternative to FBI(don't get me wrong, I use FBI over anything else, but the letters/numbers are small and almost side by side. This "surgery" must be a success; I don't want to screw up )

FBI is the only way I know of to uninstall system titles from nand

 

[fr3quency]

FBI is the only way I know of to uninstall system titles from nand

Thanks for the help! I deleted those 3 extra titles using FBI. I was triple checking the 3DS screen and 3dbrew.org to be sure. No mismatched title, no extra title. sysNAND booted fine and so did emuNAND. So I guess now I run stock 9.2 sysNAND?

 

[SMVB64]

Hey, just downgraded my N3DS today (9.5 > to 10.3 sysupdater to 9.2 safesysupdater)
and ran downgrade checker 2.0 and seems like the downgrade was kinda incomplete.

[MISMATCHED VERSIONS]

TitleID  Vers: Expected Installed  Description

0004009b00010402  04098  05122  N/A
0004001b00010802  00000  01024  N/A
0004013000001b02  02048  03073  GPIO system-module
0004013000001a02  05120  06145  DSP system-module


[EXTRA TITLES]

TitleID  Vers.  Description

0004003000009e02  01031  amiibo Settings


[MISSING TITLES]

TitleID  Vers.  Description

Should I update back to 10.3? or install these one by one using FBI? Im not to sure whats the best action to do.

Thanks -SM

 

[SomeGamer]

Hey, just downgraded my N3DS today (9.5 > to 10.3 sysupdater to 9.2 safesysupdater)
and ran downgrade checker 2.0 and seems like the downgrade was kinda incomplete.

[MISMATCHED VERSIONS]

TitleID  Vers: Expected Installed  Description

0004009b00010402  04098  05122  N/A
0004001b00010802  00000  01024  N/A
0004013000001b02  02048  03073  GPIO system-module
0004013000001a02  05120  06145  DSP system-module


[EXTRA TITLES]

TitleID  Vers.  Description

0004003000009e02  01031  amiibo Settings


[MISSING TITLES]

TitleID  Vers.  Description

Should I update back to 10.3? or install these one by one using FBI? Im not to sure whats the best action to do.

Thanks -SM

Your downgrade went completely fine. Just get the titles with mismatched versions from a 9.2 O3DS pack matching your region, then, with FBI, delete and reinstall those titles one by one. Make sure to install them to NAND! You can simply delete the Amiibo settings title.

 

[SMVB64]

Your downgrade went completely fine. Just get the titles with mismatched versions from a 9.2 O3DS pack matching your region, then, with FBI, delete and reinstall those titles one by one. Make sure to install them to NAND! You can simply delete the Amiibo settings title.

That's why it showed up as mismatch. I checked 9.2 N3DS pack files, 3 of those are not even in the folder! Those were OLD 3ds files then, ill get that pack now.
Also thank you! I was starting to panic haha thinking something went wrong

 

[dark_samus3]

This thread sums it up nicely, this is why people should wait for the kinks to get worked out of the process before attempting said process... thanks @Aroth @zoogie @Pacman` and everyone else I forgot for your awesome work, keep it up

 

[Darkrai]

So, what are the real improvements in the system stability (Hahaha), that make really necessary correct or delete these .cia ? I read the entire thread and no one, said anything about how this stopped some bug or in what way this will resolve a real problem.

I downgraded my n3DS from the 10.0.0-27U to 9.2 ten days ago and I'm not having major problems that makes me want do this. I'm a little worried because, any mistake in deleting or reinstalling these .cia can really fuck things up.

I know that all this make sense to have a real and clean downgrade, but it really worth spend time doing this ?

Anyway, I cheked my downgrade and here are the log:

[MISMATCHED VERSIONS]

TitleID          Vers: Expected Installed     Description

0004009b00010402       04098    05122         N/A
0004001b00010802       00000    01024         N/A
0004013000001b02       02048    03073         GPIO system-module
0004013000001a02       05120    06145         DSP system-module

[EXTRA TITLES]

TitleID                Vers.     Description

0004003000009e02       01031     amiibo Settings

[MISSING TITLES]

TitleID                Vers.     Description

 

[Aroth]

So, what are the real improvements in the system stability (Hahaha), that make really necessary correct or delete these .cia ? I read the entire thread and no one, said anything about how this stopped some bug or in what way this will resolve a real problem.

I downgraded my n3DS from the 10.0.0-27U to 9.2 ten days ago and I'm not having major problems that makes me want do this. I'm a little worried because, any mistake in deleting or reinstalling these .cia can really fuck things up.

I know that all this make sense to have a real and clean downgrade, but it really worth spend time doing this ?

Anyway, I cheked my downgrade and here are the log:

[MISMATCHED VERSIONS]

TitleID          Vers: Expected Installed     Description

0004009b00010402       04098    05122         N/A
0004001b00010802       00000    01024         N/A
0004013000001b02       02048    03073         GPIO system-module
0004013000001a02       05120    06145         DSP system-module

[EXTRA TITLES]

TitleID                Vers.     Description

0004003000009e02       01031     amiibo Settings

[MISSING TITLES]

TitleID                Vers.     Description

Well, for starters the GPIO is a system service module that appears to handle input and interrupts, and DSP is your sound module. Both of those might cause strange issues down the line if they are left in their updated state.

The 10402 title appears to be a list of "area"s for labeling countries and regions and honestly could PROBABLY be left alone, but if you are wanting to get as close to a "clean" 9.2 state as possible you should downgrade it as well.

The 10802 title is a CFA (basically a non-executable NCCH container) with a single 1-byte "dummy.txt" file in its RomFS which according to 3dbrew contains the string "0" in 9.2 systems and "1" in systems with the -23 NUP.

Considering that was literally the ONLY file updated with -23 on N3DS systems (besides the mandatory NVer update that comes with all NUPs), it may actually be used by something. What that something is I would not know.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh and the amiibo settings thing can be removed or left alone as you see fit since nothing SHOULD be able to call/reference it on 9.2 or lower. The title was added in 9.3, though some initial run N3DS systems that shipped with 9.0 appear to have a stubbed version of it installed for some reason (mine does anyways).

 

[zoogie]

So, what are the real improvements in the system stability (Hahaha), that make really necessary correct or delete these .cia ? I read the entire thread and no one, said anything about how this stopped some bug or in what way this will resolve a real problem.

I downgraded my n3DS from the 10.0.0-27U to 9.2 ten days ago and I'm not having major problems that makes me want do this. I'm a little worried because, any mistake in deleting or reinstalling these .cia can really fuck things up.

I know that all this make sense to have a real and clean downgrade, but it really worth spend time doing this ?

Anyway, I cheked my downgrade and here are the log:

[MISMATCHED VERSIONS]

TitleID          Vers: Expected Installed     Description

0004009b00010402       04098    05122         N/A
0004001b00010802       00000    01024         N/A
0004013000001b02       02048    03073         GPIO system-module
0004013000001a02       05120    06145         DSP system-module

[EXTRA TITLES]

TitleID                Vers.     Description

0004003000009e02       01031     amiibo Settings

[MISSING TITLES]

TitleID                Vers.     Description

That's a typical n3ds downgrade result because the downgrade packs aren't perfect yet. The good news is that it's safe to install those titles since 1) 9.2 is much more stable than 10.x. and 2) it isn't a native firm downgrade.
In fact, you could just use FBI to downgrade them individually. Those titles can all be found in your region's old 3ds 9.2 downgrade pack.
Make sure to specify NAND install if using FBI and use the latest FBI version.

 

[nintendowii]

That's a typical n3ds downgrade result because the downgrade packs aren't perfect yet. The good news is that it's safe to install those titles since 1) 9.2 is much more stable than 10.x. and 2) it isn't a native firm downgrade.
In fact, you could just use FBI to downgrade them individually. Those titles can all be found in your region's old 3ds 9.2 downgrade pack.
Make sure to specify NAND install if using FBI and use the latest FBI version.

i installed the current FBI but it fails if i will install these files of the o3ds 9.2 package. what can i do to install these files?

 

[zoogie]

i installed the current FBI but it fails if i will install these files of the o3ds 9.2 package. what can i do to install these files?

Ok, then just separate the 4 files into the updates folder and use sysupdater to downgrade.

 

[mooglazer]

[deleted]

 

[headless]

Glad i found this thread as it's explained a little bit more about my situation. You're all doing some really good work here so thank you. I have gone from 9.9 to 9.2 on a new European 3ds xl. Having run a downgrade checker i have been left with the following results:

Title ID 0x0004009b00010402
Expected version 0x1002
Installed version 0x1402

Title ID 0x000400300000b902
Extra title

Title ID 0x0004001b00010802
Expected version 0x0000
Installed version 0x0400

Title ID 0x0004013000001b02
Expected version 0x0800
Installed version 0x0c01

Title ID 0x0004013000001a02
Expected version 0x1400
Installed version 0x1801

This seems to match up with what people have been saying in this thread. If i understand correctly the above expected cia's don't exist for the new 3ds (as they don't come with stock 9.2) so your taking ones from the old 3ds 9.2 cia's and replacing them? I just wonder do you think the differences in cia versions might cause any problems due to any hardware changes that have taken place between the old 3ds and new 3ds with regarding the handling of the GPIO sound etc? I might be completely wrong and for all i know there wasn't any hardware changes that relate to these cia's and all they do is call different address in memory, i don't really have a clue and am out of my depth truth be told It's just i have had such a hard time getting to 9.2 with softbricks etc i am tempted to just create a emulated nand, update that and never touch the system nand again! If i updated the emulated nand to 10.5, am i right in thinking it would end up with all the correct cia's for a new 3ds on 10.5 and hopefully be stable and correct?

 

[Aroth]

If i understand correctly the above expected cia's don't exist for the new 3ds (as they don't come with stock 9.2) so your taking ones from the old 3ds 9.2 cia's and replacing them? I just wonder do you think the differences in cia versions might cause any problems due to any hardware changes that have taken place between the old 3ds and new 3ds with regarding the handling of the GPIO sound etc? I might be completely wrong and for all i know there wasn't any hardware changes that relate to these cia's and all they do is call different address in memory, i don't really have a clue and am out of my depth truth be told It's just i have had such a hard time getting to 9.2 with softbricks etc i am tempted to just create a emulated nand, update that and never touch the system nand again! If i updated the emulated nand to 10.5, am i right in thinking it would end up with all the correct cia's for a new 3ds on 10.5 and hopefully be stable and correct?

The files in question do exist on the N3DS, but were not part of the 9.0/9.2 SOAP replies for updates because the last time they were updated was around 7.x and 8.x, and the very first run of N3DS systems shipped with 8.1 (in Japan only but that is where the "initial version" sits for the N3DS) and its very first update was 9.0. Since those titles were not updated again after 8.0 until 9.6/9.7, they did not bother adding them to the update packages for the N3DS until then in order to save bandwidth. Why send files for a hardware that cannot possibly need to update them?

The files in question with unexpected versions (0004013000001a02, 0004013000001b02, 0004009b00010402, and 0004009b00010802) are all universal between O3DS and N3DS. For future reference, ALL titles that are N3DS only have a "2" as the 9th character in the TitleID. If a title is installed on the N3DS and has a "0" for that character then it does not have a N3DS unique version or it would have been installed instead.

I am pretty sure GPIO handles HID input (likely specifically the lower/touch screen) and I know DSP is the sound module. Since neither of these components were "ugpraded" in the N3DS it makes sense they would not have unique titles. I would strongly recommend you download them though to avoid potential weird errors since one handles I/O memory calls and the other handles sound (thus both are central to a stable experience).

As for the other two, according to 3dbrew, the *10402 title is a container for a list of "area"s (country and province/state names) so it is probably not likely to cause major problems if left alone (especially since once you update your emunand back to 10.5 it will get changed again, and I highly doubt area/country names will have any impact on the success/failure of hacks). The second title (*10802) contains a single file called "dummy.txt" that in the updated version contains the string "1", and the string "0" in the version expected to be installed on 9.2. Again this one can probably be left alone, but the fact that it DID get changed implies that something in the system references it and I am unsure what service or program that is. Thus it is entirely possible that something central to a successful execution of the arm11/arm9 exploits references or calls it and it might result in a higher failure rate if left alone. Thus, for the sake of completeness, I would replace BOTH titles with the proper versions.

While you are correct that once updated back to 10.5 your emunand would have the updated files anyways, but I would still downgrade at LEAST the GPIO and DSP file. While DSP might not have any impact on the successful booting of the hbl or cfw, issues with I/O could most definitely cause problems.

 

[headless]

Many thanks for all your information, its an interesting topic and i have came away from it knowing more then i did before Right, the next step is too try and track down the right versions of the tittles, at least i don't have to worry about if they are N3DS or O3DS titles as they are universal

 

[diego-rbb-93]

The files in question do exist on the N3DS, but were not part of the 9.0/9.2 SOAP replies for updates because the last time they were updated was around 7.x and 8.x, and the very first run of N3DS systems shipped with 8.1 (in Japan only but that is where the "initial version" sits for the N3DS) and its very first update was 9.0. Since those titles were not updated again after 8.0 until 9.6/9.7, they did not bother adding them to the update packages for the N3DS until then in order to save bandwidth. Why send files for a hardware that cannot possibly need to update them?

The files in question with unexpected versions (0004013000001a02, 0004013000001b02, 0004009b00010402, and 0004009b00010802) are all universal between O3DS and N3DS. For future reference, ALL titles that are N3DS only have a "2" as the 9th character in the TitleID. If a title is installed on the N3DS and has a "0" for that character then it does not have a N3DS unique version or it would have been installed instead.

I am pretty sure GPIO handles HID input (likely specifically the lower/touch screen) and I know DSP is the sound module. Since neither of these components were "ugpraded" in the N3DS it makes sense they would not have unique titles. I would strongly recommend you download them though to avoid potential weird errors since one handles I/O memory calls and the other handles sound (thus both are central to a stable experience).

As for the other two, according to 3dbrew, the *10402 title is a container for a list of "area"s (country and province/state names) so it is probably not likely to cause major problems if left alone (especially since once you update your emunand back to 10.5 it will get changed again, and I highly doubt area/country names will have any impact on the success/failure of hacks). The second title (*10802) contains a single file called "dummy.txt" that in the updated version contains the string "1", and the string "0" in the version expected to be installed on 9.2. Again this one can probably be left alone, but the fact that it DID get changed implies that something in the system references it and I am unsure what service or program that is. Thus it is entirely possible that something central to a successful execution of the arm11/arm9 exploits references or calls it and it might result in a higher failure rate if left alone. Thus, for the sake of completeness, I would replace BOTH titles with the proper versions.

While you are correct that once updated back to 10.5 your emunand would have the updated files anyways, but I would still downgrade at LEAST the GPIO and DSP file. While DSP might not have any impact on the successful booting of the hbl or cfw, issues with I/O could most definitely cause problems.

Aroth, ive been trying to read everything but there are things that i still dont understand. My question is: could all these discoveries lead to a better funcionality over SysUpdater itself to obtain a secure downgrade (if all the 9.2 cia files are correctly put on the 3ds) or its only to make sure that we can fix some errors if a "bad" downgrade happens?

Right now i have a 10.3 N3DS and i have fear to do anything at least i have confirmation that semibrick can be
avoidable. But still dont get if the problem is Sysupdater or the official 9.2 cia files and if these could be recompilated to avoid a posible semibrick.

I know theres always risk but it shouldnt be if the process is stable enought, but still dont why the process isnt...

 

[Aroth]

Aroth, ive been trying to read everything but there are things that i still dont understand. My question is: could all these discoveries lead to a better funcionality over SysUpdater itself to obtain a secure downgrade (if all the 9.2 cia files are correctly put on the 3ds) or its only to make sure that we can fix some errors if a "bad" downgrade happens?

Right now i have a 10.3 N3DS and i have fear to do anything at least i have confirmation that semibrick can be
avoidable. But still dont get if the problem is Sysupdater or the official 9.2 cia files and if these could be recompilated to avoid a posible semibrick.

I know theres always risk but it shouldnt be if the process is stable enought, but still dont why the process isnt...

So the process itself is about as stable as it can get at this time. Most of the "stability" issues arise around getting the exploit to execute in the first place in order to launch the sysupdater application. If/when sysupdater launches properly to the point the files start installing it very rarely fails or bricks, assuming the downgrade package you are using is valid. The only real issue I have seen pop up involves having the system already prompting you for an update. Apparently if the update nag is already present, it can cause mch2 itself to not exploit properly and cause weird errors in sysupdater. With this in mind you should always clear the update nag first by booting into recovery mode and canceling the update. Also I would recommend you use safesysupdater over the other alternatives.

The original idea was to point out that the update packs for the N3DS were not really the same the as "downgrade" packs. It does work this way for the O3DS, for the most part, and my goal was to point out WHY it does not work for the N3DS and raise awareness of what needed to be adjusted/added to account for that.

My understanding is that the update/downgrade packages on that iso site have since been updated to include the 4 titles that are not present in the original N3DS 9.2 update packages, so it SHOULD be safe to use them. I would strongly recommend that you use the program that was created and listed earlier in the thread to check the downgrade and verify the installed versions of each title after the downgrade.

In the event that the packages you used was missing one or more of the titles discussed in this thread, you can easily download an O3DS 9.2 update package for your region and extract them from it (since the same title is used on both systems) and then install the extracted titles.


tl:dr

Downgrades as as safe as they can be, just make sure you use a valid downgrade package (the ones from that iso site as your best bet) and always clear the update nag before attempting to downgrade. Run the downgrade checker program from this thread after. If it shows mismatched versions for the titles listed here, just grab them from an O3DS package and install.

 

[headless]

Just like to say thank you again to all the people in this thread for all the information. Have fixed the mismatches and carried on with the EmuNand stuff now. The only thing i left is the extra amiibo title

 

[diego-rbb-93]

So the process itself is about as stable as it can get at this time. Most of the "stability" issues arise around getting the exploit to execute in the first place in order to launch the sysupdater application. If/when sysupdater launches properly to the point the files start installing it very rarely fails or bricks, assuming the downgrade package you are using is valid. The only real issue I have seen pop up involves having the system already prompting you for an update. Apparently if the update nag is already present, it can cause mch2 itself to not exploit properly and cause weird errors in sysupdater. With this in mind you should always clear the update nag first by booting into recovery mode and canceling the update. Also I would recommend you use safesysupdater over the other alternatives.

The original idea was to point out that the update packs for the N3DS were not really the same the as "downgrade" packs. It does work this way for the O3DS, for the most part, and my goal was to point out WHY it does not work for the N3DS and raise awareness of what needed to be adjusted/added to account for that.

My understanding is that the update/downgrade packages on that iso site have since been updated to include the 4 titles that are not present in the original N3DS 9.2 update packages, so it SHOULD be safe to use them. I would strongly recommend that you use the program that was created and listed earlier in the thread to check the downgrade and verify the installed versions of each title after the downgrade.

In the event that the packages you used was missing one or more of the titles discussed in this thread, you can easily download an O3DS 9.2 update package for your region and extract them from it (since the same title is used on both systems) and then install the extracted titles.


tl:dr

Downgrades as as safe as they can be, just make sure you use a valid downgrade package (the ones from that iso site as your best bet) and always clear the update nag before attempting to downgrade. Run the downgrade checker program from this thread after. If it shows mismatched versions for the titles listed here, just grab them from an O3DS package and install.

Now thats a f#cking good answer for noobs man. Awesome, for real. Thanks for all the explanation, that was helpful as hell.