Pandemic Amnesty? No, people will not forgive and forget what was done to them.

[titan_tim]

So weird that they decided to lower the number of cycles once Resident Vegetable took office. Not to mention the new Covid test that can tell the difference between Covid and the flu.

Once again, there was never a PCR test that can't tell the difference between COVID and the flu. Quit lying.

I'd rather have a firearm and not need it than to not have one and need it. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Let me check how many US gun homicides there were last year.... 20,000!??!!? WOW! So screw those people, Pat here needs a false sense of security no matter what the toll on life may be. No wonder the US is going down the drain.

Average people are not trained on how to care or wear a mask. I chose not to wear one because I knew it was worthless. And since I never got Covid or the flu, I was right.

Seems like you once again ignore the studies I posted. You say that masks are worthless, but at this point it just means either:
1. You don't know how to put on a mask.
2. You're too cheap to buy a decent one.
3. All of the above.

BTW, you weren't right because you haven't gotten COVID yet, but for that you can refer back to my comparison to walking around with a gun and the safety off. Tick-tock Tick-tock.

This isn't a peer reviewed study with a control group. It's data is based on what was reported instead of what was observed.

Technically, you only asked for a peer reviewed study for masks, so I'm in the clear for using an observational study this time. That being said, dealing with a population of 19 million doesn't really help your case even if cases are more elevated than 297 cases in reality.

If we put those 19 million people through vaccines, and a tiny portion of them develop myocarditis, it's still a better mortality outcome than 19 million unvaccinated people getting COVID.

 

[lolcatzuru]

I know, I know, reading makes you tired. Go get some sleep.

As for the death certificates, I have them all here, alphabetized, and time stamped. Where should I send them to? Ugh....
Seriously, what type of a bad faith argument is that?! If I were to have a giant stack of death certificates in PDF form in a google drive, your eyes would just glaze over at the sheer number of them, and give up, while not changing your beliefs one single bit.

But fear not! I have a solution to this. If you're TRULY interested in the truth of the matter, there's a simple thing you can do. Want to know?

-Go to your largest general hospital in your area
-Go to the ICU
-Talk to a secretary or a nurse and tell them sincerely that you wish to hear about all the COVID patients that they've been taking care of, because you don't believe they exist.

I'm sure they'll take you on a nice tour of the area and show you the people who are unconscious in artificial respirators. They can show you the death certificates, and show you the people who probably won't be making it out alive that day.

That being said, you're arguing in bad faith, so I'm 99.9999% sure that you'll never even bother. You can't even entertain the idea that your beliefs are based on lies/ignorance.

well even if i wanted to, i dont have the clearance for that. that being said yea if you can get me a PDF ill sign off.

 

[smilodon]

At this point, I am sad that Covid wasn't more lethal. Then we would have been able to give respect to antivax by giving them a proper funeral.

 

[titan_tim]

well even if i wanted to

Like I said, you're a bad faith actor. You make assertions and lies, but when presented with an easy way to get confirmation, you make excuses to weasel out of it.

You can get confirmation without "clearance". It's not fort Knox. I know someone who is a respiratory therapists that LOVES to help people like you see the truth. He's told me so many stories about people on their death bed clinging to the lie that they weren't dying of covid. Really pitiful stuff. For the people put into induced comas when they're in the artificial respirators, they usually don't live through it. Even if they were to pull through, the recovery is very long and painful.

 

[lolcatzuru]

Like I said, you're a bad faith actor. You make assertions and lies, but when presented with an easy way to get confirmation, you make excuses to weasel out of it.

You can get confirmation without "clearance". It's not fort Knox. I know someone who is a respiratory therapists that LOVES to help people like you see the truth. He's told me so many stories about people on their death bed clinging to the lie that they weren't dying of covid. Really pitiful stuff. For the people put into induced comas when they're in the artificial respirators, they usually don't live through it. Even if they were to pull through, the recovery is very long and painful.

have you ever heard of the term, bias?

 

[titan_tim]

have you ever heard of the term, bias?

Oh believe me, I know that word very well. It's staring me right in my face as I type.

But luckily, a hospital doesn't have the convenience of bias. They have to deal with what they're given as it comes, regardless of how they feel.

But as you said, "Even if I wanted to", meaning you don't want to see evidence. You prefer to not easily confirm that your assertions are wrong, therefore protecting your bias.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Once again, there was never a PCR test that can't tell the difference between COVID and the flu. Quit lying.

LOL

Let me check how many US gun homicides there were last year.... 20,000!??!!? WOW! So screw those people, Pat here needs a false sense of security no matter what the toll on life may be. No wonder the US is going down the drain.

Guns prevent 2.5 million violent crimes a year in the U.S. Guess those people should have just died instead.

Seems like you once again ignore the studies I posted. You say that masks are worthless, but at this point it just means either:
1. You don't know how to put on a mask.
2. You're too cheap to buy a decent one.
3. All of the above.

I'd love to know where you stored your mask and how did you keep it sterile all day out in public.

BTW, you weren't right because you haven't gotten COVID yet, but for that you can refer back to my comparison to walking around with a gun and the safety off. Tick-tock Tick-tock.

You can shove that clock in a dark place. I protect myself with vitamins, sunshine and regular exercise. Everything the FDA and CDC did not recommend you do.

Technically, you only asked for a peer reviewed study for masks, so I'm in the clear for using an observational study this time. That being said, dealing with a population of 19 million doesn't really help your case even if cases are more elevated than 297 cases in reality.

If we put those 19 million people through vaccines, and a tiny portion of them develop myocarditis, it's still a better mortality outcome than 19 million unvaccinated people getting COVID.

Strange that I only hear of the jabbed getting Covid over and over and over again. Including the Resident in the White House.

 

[titan_tim]

LOL

The articles you posted yourself didn't say that. So Yes, "LOL".

Guns prevent 2.5 million violent crimes a year in the U.S. Guess those people should have just died instead.

Wasn't it you that was complaining about data from what is reported? There are more than enough peer reviewed studies that more guns equates to more gun violence. Crime prevention with guns is irrelevant to you. If crime was down to the lowest levels in US history, you'd still push for guns.

Hell, I'll even go ahead and defend your need to have a gun. Your country is screwed, so stock up! Australia was able to ban all guns, and it's worked out amazingly for them. But the US? Not a chance in hell they're going to take 350 million guns away from you people. It's too ingrained in your fear of your neighbors.

I've been over here for about 16 years now, and have NEVER wished I had a gun to protect myself. I can walk down the most "dangerous" streets, and not feel even an iota of fear. You can blame it on culture, or a stronger middle class, or whatever. It still doesn't help defend a country that is in dire need of STRICT gun reform, but is too stubborn to do it.

I'd love to know where you stored your mask and how did you keep it sterile all day out in public.

I'm sure you would. Just like putting your hand in front of your mouth before a sneeze, it's better than nothing. Minimum effort is better than denying basic truths.

You can shove that clock in a dark place. I protect myself with vitamins, sunshine and regular exercise. Everything the FDA and CDC did not recommend you do.

Will do! It's now firmly lodged inside your colon. Now you'll be able to hear it wherever you go, like the alligator that chases Captain Hook.

Strange that I only hear of the jabbed getting Covid over and over and over again. Including the Resident in the White House.

And yet, they're still alive. I guess the people who aren't vaccinated just seem to die off for some reason. The vast majority of people out there are vaccinated, therefore that's the majority of people that you'll hear getting it. It doesn't mean that they unvaccinated aren't getting it as well.

I said this to the other dingus on here. If you REALLY want to challenge your bias, then go to the closest ICU in the general hospital. Talk to the nurses there and ask them the percentage of people who unvaccinated and are clinging to life from COVID. Ask about death rates of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. They'll gladly help you out, as long as you are sincere in furthering your knowledge.

 

[TraderPatTX]

The articles you posted yourself didn't say that. So Yes, "LOL".


Wasn't it you that was complaining about data from what is reported? There are more than enough peer reviewed studies that more guns equates to more gun violence. Crime prevention with guns is irrelevant to you. If crime was down to the lowest levels in US history, you'd still push for guns.

Hell, I'll even go ahead and defend your need to have a gun. Your country is screwed, so stock up! Australia was able to ban all guns, and it's worked out amazingly for them. But the US? Not a chance in hell they're going to take 350 million guns away from you people. It's too ingrained in your fear of your neighbors.

Australia doesn't have a 2nd Amendment, which is why their government was able to round them up and put them in Covid camps.

I've been over here for about 16 years now, and have NEVER wished I had a gun to protect myself. I can walk down the most "dangerous" streets, and not feel even an iota of fear.

Good for you. You wanna cookie?

You can blame it on culture, or a stronger middle class, or whatever. It still doesn't help defend a country that is in dire need of STRICT gun reform, but is too stubborn to do it.

Pass a constitutional amendment and you can get all the gun reform you want. Until then, STFU.

I'm sure you would. Just like putting your hand in front of your mouth before a sneeze, it's better than nothing. Minimum effort is better than denying basic truths.

Just admit that you take your mask out of your dirty pocket and put it on your face and rebreathe your stank ass breath all day.

Will do! It's now firmly lodged inside your colon. Now you'll be able to hear it wherever you go, like the alligator that chases Captain Hook.


And yet, they're still alive. I guess the people who aren't vaccinated just seem to die off for some reason. The vast majority of people out there are vaccinated, therefore that's the majority of people that you'll hear getting it. It doesn't mean that they unvaccinated aren't getting it as well.

People are not getting boosted anymore.

I said this to the other dingus on here. If you REALLY want to challenge your bias, then go to the closest ICU in the general hospital. Talk to the nurses there and ask them the percentage of people who unvaccinated and are clinging to life from COVID. Ask about death rates of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. They'll gladly help you out, as long as you are sincere in furthering your knowledge.

I just had a valve repair so I spent and entire week talking to nurses. They all admitted that masks outside of sterile operating rooms are worthless and they said there were more jabbed people than unjabbed in the hospital. And this was at Cleveland Clinic.

 

[titan_tim]

Australia doesn't have a 2nd Amendment, which is why their government was able to round them up and put them in Covid camps.

Still clinging to an outdated amendment that couldn't see the future. Very forward thinking. I've had this conversation before about it being " a well regulated militia" and not 'every dingleberry in the street can and should have a gun', but that just seems to go in one ear and out the other with excuses.

Good for you. You wanna cookie?

Finally a good idea! I can go to the convenience store to get some, and not worry anyone is carrying. Although it's lunch, so I'll probably get some tsukemen noodles (yum).

Pass a constitutional amendment and you can get all the gun reform you want. Until then, STFU.

You're telling me to? Sorry, not my place. I can just point out the rot. Although if that day were to ever come, you'd be here whining without a doubt.

I just had a valve repair so I spent and entire week talking to nurses. They all admitted that masks outside of sterile operating rooms are worthless and they said there were more jabbed people than unjabbed in the hospital. And this was at Cleveland Clinic.

Anecdotal evidence at best, but whatever. Although statistically when the vast majority in the country are vaccinated, the total number actually in the hospital would be vaccinated. I care more about the ratio of people who are either in the ICU or have died due to the virus, and their vaccinated status.

We can look at the death statistics in Japan compared to the US as well. The us is over 1.1 million deaths, and Japan is around 47,000. In Japan, EVERYONE wears a mask. Indoor, outdoor, it doesn't matter. Do you believe that their dirty unsanitized masks had anything to do with the lower death rate? You can say that the US over reported deaths, and Japan under reported. But that's still a HUGE gap to account for.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Still clinging to an outdated amendment that couldn't see the future. Very forward thinking. I've had this conversation before about it being " a well regulated militia" and not 'every dingleberry in the street can and should have a gun', but that just seems to go in one ear and out the other with excuses.

So the 1st amendment is outdated. Interesting. You also don't understand commas. Also interesting.

Finally a good idea! I can go to the convenience store to get some, and not worry anyone is carrying. Although it's lunch, so I'll probably get some tsukemen noodles (yum).


You're telling me to? Sorry, not my place. I can just point out the rot. Although if that day were to ever come, you'd be here whining without a doubt.

Keep whining about it then. I don't care.

Anecdotal evidence at best, but whatever. Although statistically when the vast majority in the country are vaccinated, the total number actually in the hospital would be vaccinated. I care more about the ratio of people who are either in the ICU or have died due to the virus, and their vaccinated status.

I did exactly what you told me to do and now you call it anecdotal. Why did you want me to talk to nurses in the first place?

We can look at the death statistics in Japan compared to the US as well. The us is over 1.1 million deaths, and Japan is around 47,000. In Japan, EVERYONE wears a mask. Indoor, outdoor, it doesn't matter. Do you believe that their dirty unsanitized masks had anything to do with the lower death rate? You can say that the US over reported deaths, and Japan under reported. But that's still a HUGE gap to account for.

You'd have to prove that the masks in Japan actually work. What would the deaths be if the Japanese didn't wear masks? Do you know? I doubt it.

 

[lolcatzuru]

Oh believe me, I know that word very well. It's staring me right in my face as I type.

But luckily, a hospital doesn't have the convenience of bias. They have to deal with what they're given as it comes, regardless of how they feel.

But as you said, "Even if I wanted to", meaning you don't want to see evidence. You prefer to not easily confirm that your assertions are wrong, therefore protecting your bias.

hospitals.... dont have bias?

also i would appreciate if you didnt lie about me, thanks.

 

[titan_tim]

So the 1st amendment is outdated. Interesting. You also don't understand commas. Also interesting.

Well that's quite the non sequitur. Speech doesn't change over time, technology does.

Keep whining about it then. I don't care.

Fine, continue to live being willfully obtuse.

I did exactly what you told me to do and now you call it anecdotal. Why did you want me to talk to nurses in the first place?

You didn't do what I asked. I asked you to talk to a nurse in order to find out about the ICU to see how many people in critical condition were unvaxed and compare to how many are vaxed in the same situation. People having the virus in a hospital are to be expected, and since the vast majority are vaccinated, then more so. If there are 30 people ventilators, and the majority of them are unvaxed, that's not a good sign.

You'd have to prove that the masks in Japan actually work. What would the deaths be if the Japanese didn't wear masks? Do you know? I doubt it.

As I've already given you two studies in the past comments that masks work for COVID prevention, I believe the burden of proof that they don't work is more on you.

As for what would the deaths be like if the Japanese didn't wear masks, that's impossible to say. But to use that as an argument to say something is true/false is using the "argument from ignorance" fallacy. All we can do is look at the data we have now, and infer what we can from that.

There is also the fact that Americans have a MUCH higher obesity level that most countries, and dwarfs the number in Japan. Although the top three country deaths are US, Brazil, and India. India makes sense since their population is so huge. Brazil, could be because their president was so gung-ho about denying COVID entirely.

Who knows, maybe sushi or ramen has anti-covid properties.

 

[tabzer]

Who knows, maybe sushi or ramen has anti-covid properties.

Saying "gochisosamadeshita" after a meal does. Ramen is from China.

Anyway, I remain skeptical of all things statistics, since cooking the books is a hallmark of capitalism, and science is deployed in the direction of desired outcomes of those who finance it.

I've heard stories of people dying from COVID. But I don't know anyone. It could be all smoke and mirrors afaik. Even if I did, I would sooner question the hospitals method in administrating death. They are the authority of that after all.

 

[CommanderCool]

Is TraderPatTX shitting up another thread with Fox News/OAN talking points again?

 

[TraderPatTX]

Well that's quite the non sequitur. Speech doesn't change over time, technology does.

Actually speech does change over time. We do not often say thou or thy in normal conversation. And the Founders knew technology changed. There were semi-automatic rifles during their time.

Fine, continue to live being willfully obtuse.

Cry more.

You didn't do what I asked. I asked you to talk to a nurse in order to find out about the ICU to see how many people in critical condition were unvaxed and compare to how many are vaxed in the same situation. People having the virus in a hospital are to be expected, and since the vast majority are vaccinated, then more so. If there are 30 people ventilators, and the majority of them are unvaxed, that's not a good sign.

I talked to many nurses while I was in the ICU. They all said the majority of people were jabbed. Sorry if that doesn't line up with your talking points. My advice, get new talking points.

As I've already given you two studies in the past comments that masks work for COVID prevention, I believe the burden of proof that they don't work is more on you.

Neither one of them were peer reviewed. And it is not my responsibility to prove a negative. If you knew how to debate, you'd know that.

As for what would the deaths be like if the Japanese didn't wear masks, that's impossible to say. But to use that as an argument to say something is true/false is using the "argument from ignorance" fallacy. All we can do is look at the data we have now, and infer what we can from that.

You telling me you can't prove a negative? I did Nazi that coming.

There is also the fact that Americans have a MUCH higher obesity level that most countries, and dwarfs the number in Japan. Although the top three country deaths are US, Brazil, and India. India makes sense since their population is so huge. Brazil, could be because their president was so gung-ho about denying COVID entirely.

And now you are fat shaming.

Who knows, maybe sushi or ramen has anti-covid properties.

Nope. Only the jabs work. Nothing else should be studied at all. You are anti-science for even suggesting something else could possibly work against Covid.

 

[CommanderCool]

Actually speech does change over time. We do not often say thou or thy in normal conversation. And the Founders knew technology changed. There were semi-automatic rifles during their time.

Cry more.

I talked to many nurses while I was in the ICU. They all said the majority of people were jabbed. Sorry if that doesn't line up with your talking points. My advice, get new talking points.

Neither one of them were peer reviewed. And it is not my responsibility to prove a negative. If you knew how to debate, you'd know that.

You telling me you can't prove a negative? I did Nazi that coming.

And now you are fat shaming.

Nope. Only the jabs work. Nothing else should be studied at all. You are anti-science for even suggesting something else could possibly work against Covid.

Hey bro since you won't answer in the other thread, can you answer me in this one? Your talking points are really boring and I was just thinking that since everyone arguing with you is like arguing against a brick wall that gained sentience and has the mental capacity of a Fox News/OAN/Breitbart enthusiast that you can at least tell me one shitting habit of one Republican congressman.

It's not hard, bro. Just answer the question.

 

[AlexMCS]

There is also the fact that Americans have a MUCH higher obesity level that most countries, and dwarfs the number in Japan. Although the top three country deaths are US, Brazil, and India. India makes sense since their population is so huge. Brazil, could be because their president was so gung-ho about denying COVID entirely

I can tell you what happened here:
- Unprepared health infrastructure - doctors, beds etc. The mother of a friend died because she got her lungs pierced thrice during the intubation process by the oh-so-competent doctors, by their own admission. I got a very poor reception as well when I had to go to the hospital for oxygen.

- Assigning random death causes to CoViD-19. If you died in a hospital, the Cause of Death would be stated as CoViD-19 in the report, 60% of the time, no questions asked. "Motorcycle accident -> get admitted -> dies from the consequences of the accident. Oh, the dude had -SARS-CoV-2 in his bloodstream! (from the freaking hospital to boot: death from Covid)". More CoViD deaths = more funds given to the hospital to fight it (in theory. In practice it was stolen). I personally know of some cases.

- Finally, the denial of the most basic social distancing measures by some deniers, which helped the virus spread.

This whole disease, assuming the contagion conditions are as expected, is almost fully preventable with a 45 day total lockdown, which was never followed, nowhere in the world. Governments were terrible in their lockdown handling.

 

[titan_tim]

Saying "gochisosamadeshita" after a meal does. Ramen is from China.

I always felt like that was a magic incantation! Correct, ramen is from China. Ra means to stretch, and men is noodles (My Chinese coworker loves to tell me that). But it's still a staple food in Japan, and eaten much more often than sushi.

Anyway, I remain skeptical of all things statistics, since cooking the books is a hallmark of capitalism, and science is deployed in the direction of desired outcomes of those who finance it.

I've heard stories of people dying from COVID. But I don't know anyone. It could be all smoke and mirrors afaik. Even if I did, I would sooner question the hospitals method in administrating death. They are the authority of that after all.

Yeah, in this day and age, it's hard to trust anything anymore. But I like to put my faith in people who get into the medical field to help others.

And luckily, I haven't had anyone die from COVID, but I have a cousin who works as a respiratory therapist. The stories he's told me I have to trust. It's anecdotal for you, but first hand knowledge for me. Wish I could give more.

- Unprepared health infrastructure - doctors, beds etc. The mother of a friend died because she got her lungs pierced thrice during the intubation process by the oh-so-competent doctors, by their own admission. I got a very poor reception as well when I had to go to the hospital for oxygen.

That sucks, seriously. From what I've heard, the US is severely understaffed for nurses and people are stretched to the brink. That'll also cause people to be pushed through nursing/medical school to fill the gaps.

- Finally, the denial of the most basic social distancing measures by some deniers, which helped the virus spread.

This whole disease, assuming the contagion conditions are as expected, is almost fully preventable with a 45 day total lockdown, which was never followed, nowhere in the world. Governments were terrible in their lockdown handling.

New Zealand did a pretty decent job, but in the end it'll be just like all the other countries. China too eventually, no matter how much they do zero tolerance. To get the entire world to understand the greater good is herding cats.

Actually speech does change over time. We do not often say thou or thy in normal conversation. And the Founders knew technology changed. There were semi-automatic rifles during their time.

Well, yes. You got me there! Speech does change, but what you said was still a non sequitur. I'll rephrase my statement so that you can't try to squirm out of it. Free speech doesn't change in the way that technology does in regards to public safety. Better?
Also for a gun nut, I would have thought you wouldn't think that semi automatic rifles were around in 1787. A simple google search says that it was first created in 1885, nearly an entire century later!

They all said the majority of people were jabbed.

Seems like you still don't understand ratios. Shame.

And it is not my responsibility to prove a negative. If you knew how to debate, you'd know that. You telling me you can't prove a negative? I did Nazi that coming.

You know you have the ability to proof-read what you type, right? I guess that means I know how to debate!

And now you are fat shaming.

Is telling the truth shaming to you? Would you like to say that I'm wrong that the US obesity rate isn't high? It would go along with your other reality denying comments.

You are anti-science for even suggesting something else could possibly work against Covid.

I know you're being sarcastic, but I let science run it's course on ivermectin and other theories. Once the findings were conclusive, then there's not much more to say. Although that being said, I wouldn't want to test injecting disinfectant into anyone's lungs.

 

[tabzer]

Also for a gun nut, I would have thought you wouldn't think that semi automatic rifles were around in 1787. A simple google search says that it was first created in 1885, nearly an entire century later!

https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/03-05-02-0311

Relevant.