Hacking Nintendont

[Troopage]

Sheesh. 5 pages later and still no response? Was my question really that bad? Lol
Here it is again for reference.

Why doesn't the Wii U widescreen setting make the game fill the entire screen or proper 4:3? There are small black bars on left and right side, so whether the feature is off or on, Nintendont and the games it plays are either too stretched or too squished. Sorry if this is a stupid question. XP

EDIT: Forgot to mention that messing around with my TV settings didn't fix it and my Gamepad shows the same problem.

 

[sideskroll]

Sheesh. 5 pages later and still no response? Was my question really that bad? Lol
Here it is again for reference.

FullHD (1080p) display with the Wiiu outputting 1080p trough HDMI, right?
That's because the Wii (vWii in this case) actually outputs 448 (instead of the 480p standard) same as the gamecube. so your TV is just displaying the image that the WiiUs own upscaler spits out. 448p isn't neatly upscaled to 1080 widescreen. So as not to change the Aspect Ratio the image comes out like that. Don't worry, it's not actually "squishing" anything (you can tell by the shape of circles or similar in game)
You could try setting your TV to 16:9 or FULL or something like that instead of "1:1" or "just scan" or whatever those modes are called on your own TV if it bothers you that much.

 

[fledge68]

Hello. I would like to use WiiFlow to load Gamecube games from my Wii. I have installed Nintendont in SD:apps/nintendont/boot.dol as the instructions said. I have a game placed in SD:games/Skies of Arcadia Legends [GEAP8P]/game.iso (WiiFlow itself put it there when I ripped the disc, so I'm assuming this is correct). In settings, the gamecube loader is also set to Ninendont.

Anyway, in WiiFlow, whenever I try to choose the Gamecube Source, it give me the message *DISABLED*. I can run the game just fine from the Nintendont app itself. I don't think I fiddled too much with any other settings. Am I doing something wrong?

i believe you you need to edit your wiiflow.ini. under [DML] change always_show_button=yes. it's been a while for me so i could be wrong.

 

[OriginalHamster]

Believe me, I get it.
But maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly. Let me try again.
Dolby Surround is a way of encoding delays, phase switching and some other tricks into a 2 channel audio track for later decoding on a capable receiver (be it with the original Dolby Surround, PL, PLII, etc.) Right? So far we're on the same page.
That technology was later superseded by Dolby Digital, DTS etc which are not a part of this discussion so we'll leave them aside. But the point is that they're NOT the same. At all. (DD, DTS etc all have discreet channels which work independently from one another while Surround has all the info embedded on only 2 channels and it is up to the decoder to reassign those matrixed sounds) So far we agree on everything, right?
OK, now back to PLII. The only way for the decoder to work properly is if it recognizes the surround matrix in the audio feed. Otherwise the decoder just "fakes" surround sound instead of actually assigning individual channels as cued in the matrix feed (and you can verify that by enabling the decoder with ANY stereo source. It would assign sounds to all channels of your sound system but does that make it "true surround"? No. It is just the decoder trying its best to "emulate" surround.)
Now, I don't know what kind of receiver you have but most of them have an "auto surround" option. All that means is that the receiver will take whatever feed it gets, detect the matrix and decode accordingly all without user intervention. The way it SHOULD be. So for example, if you play an audio CD it would not decode anything because there's no matrix in the feed. But if you play let's say an .AVI file with Stereo Sound encoded as PLII (Like Wii and NGC games are) the receiver detects the matrix automatically and decodes according to the cues on the feed.
from my personal AVR manual:

Stereo surround (matrix) formats are decoded automatically using [B]NEO: 6[/B] or [B]DOLBY PLII (x)[/B]

That's on "Auto-Surround" mode. And I can confirm that it works perfectly fine and seamlessly without ANY user intervention whatsoever.
For instance, if I'm listening to an audio CD and then change to a movie encoded in stereo surround (matrix) the receiver goes from plain vanilla stereo (no matrix on the feed) to DLPII or NEO: 6 without me touching anything.
That's how I know the feed is announcing itself as Surround and the decoder is doing its job properly.
Now, of course you can "force surround" basically ANYTHING. But if there's no matrix to decode then it is all up to the decoder to "fake" surround.
And that's where the WiiU enters. The WiiU is (obviously) announcing itself as LPCM. And the receiver lets me know that on its display. But if I change it to vWii mode the receiver still sees it as LPCM. So there's no flag to let the machine knows if there's a matrix or not in the feed. So it's basically like using PLII on an audio CD. Does it work? Yeah, well "maybe". I mean you can hear the sounds... But is it REALLY decoding the matrix as its supposed to? Beats me. Saying that it is definitely working would be like saying that EVERY audio CD on existence has a matrix in their stereo feed just because PLII decoders attempt to recreate non existent surround sounds from a plain vanilla dual channel audio track.
And TBH that's what I think the vWii is doing. Just "faking" it all the way....
Now, if Nintendo would just put a farking "BITSTREAM" mode, at least on the vWii part of the machine receivers would just adjust accordingly instead of having to "surround everything up or nothing at all"
It is a poor design. It's not that "i don't get it". It is just not working as it's supposed to.
I guess you'd say that I'm a bit bothered by not KNOWING if the decoder is doing it's work properly AND by the fact that I shouldn't have to be MANUALLY selecting PLII for EVERYTHING or NOTHING. Not every game in existence has a surround sound matrix inside of the feed. And the console should let the receiver decide which game (or app) requires which decoder (or none) by announcing itself properly (like ANY other piece of equipment outputting digital audio these days)
Manually selecting a Dolby decoder may have been great back in the day. But this is 2015. Decoders have evolved a long way from back when it was "cool" to have "surround this, surround that, surround in everything and everywhere".
Nowadays most people just want to get the purest form of the content they can get. That's why we have DTS HDMA and whatnot.
That means that if the creators intended the sound to be listened in a 2.0 system it should be played like that. If they embedded a surround matrix it should be then played like that etc...
It's like people playing 4:3 games on 16:9 displays all stretched out. IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE PLAYED LIKE THAT. STOP DOING IT PEOPLE! I swear I cringe every time I see something like that.
And no, it's not a matter of personal preference like some people say it's a matter of doing justice to the source.
Sorry for the super duper long post but I just wanted to try and be as clear as possible.
Again, Nintendo should look into that. It IS a problem and it CAN be fixed. It's just that people don't seem to notice.

You can check that you are not getting fake DPLII by testing Rogue Leader or Soul Calibur 2, both have sound test modes for 5.1 set ups. GoldenEye is a good example to test in Wii side.
Of course channel separation will never be that good as its on LPCM

 

[strikerdark]

Believe me, I get it.
But maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly. Let me try again.
Dolby Surround is a way of encoding delays, phase switching and some other tricks into a 2 channel audio track for later decoding on a capable receiver (be it with the original Dolby Surround, PL, PLII, etc.) Right? So far we're on the same page.
That technology was later superseded by Dolby Digital, DTS etc which are not a part of this discussion so we'll leave them aside. But the point is that they're NOT the same. At all. (DD, DTS etc all have discreet channels which work independently from one another while Surround has all the info embedded on only 2 channels and it is up to the decoder to reassign those matrixed sounds) So far we agree on everything, right?
OK, now back to PLII. The only way for the decoder to work properly is if it recognizes the surround matrix in the audio feed. Otherwise the decoder just "fakes" surround sound instead of actually assigning individual channels as cued in the matrix feed (and you can verify that by enabling the decoder with ANY stereo source. It would assign sounds to all channels of your sound system but does that make it "true surround"? No. It is just the decoder trying its best to "emulate" surround.)
Now, I don't know what kind of receiver you have but most of them have an "auto surround" option. All that means is that the receiver will take whatever feed it gets, detect the matrix and decode accordingly all without user intervention. The way it SHOULD be. So for example, if you play an audio CD it would not decode anything because there's no matrix in the feed. But if you play let's say an .AVI file with Stereo Sound encoded as PLII (Like Wii and NGC games are) the receiver detects the matrix automatically and decodes according to the cues on the feed.
from my personal AVR manual:

Stereo surround (matrix) formats are decoded automatically using [B]NEO: 6[/B] or [B]DOLBY PLII (x)[/B]

That's on "Auto-Surround" mode. And I can confirm that it works perfectly fine and seamlessly without ANY user intervention whatsoever.
For instance, if I'm listening to an audio CD and then change to a movie encoded in stereo surround (matrix) the receiver goes from plain vanilla stereo (no matrix on the feed) to DLPII or NEO: 6 without me touching anything.
That's how I know the feed is announcing itself as Surround and the decoder is doing its job properly.
Now, of course you can "force surround" basically ANYTHING. But if there's no matrix to decode then it is all up to the decoder to "fake" surround.
And that's where the WiiU enters. The WiiU is (obviously) announcing itself as LPCM. And the receiver lets me know that on its display. But if I change it to vWii mode the receiver still sees it as LPCM. So there's no flag to let the machine knows if there's a matrix or not in the feed. So it's basically like using PLII on an audio CD. Does it work? Yeah, well "maybe". I mean you can hear the sounds... But is it REALLY decoding the matrix as its supposed to? Beats me. Saying that it is definitely working would be like saying that EVERY audio CD on existence has a matrix in their stereo feed just because PLII decoders attempt to recreate non existent surround sounds from a plain vanilla dual channel audio track.
And TBH that's what I think the vWii is doing. Just "faking" it all the way....
Now, if Nintendo would just put a farking "BITSTREAM" mode, at least on the vWii part of the machine receivers would just adjust accordingly instead of having to "surround everything up or nothing at all"
It is a poor design. It's not that "i don't get it". It is just not working as it's supposed to.
I guess you'd say that I'm a bit bothered by not KNOWING if the decoder is doing it's work properly AND by the fact that I shouldn't have to be MANUALLY selecting PLII for EVERYTHING or NOTHING. Not every game in existence has a surround sound matrix inside of the feed. And the console should let the receiver decide which game (or app) requires which decoder (or none) by announcing itself properly (like ANY other piece of equipment outputting digital audio these days)
Manually selecting a Dolby decoder may have been great back in the day. But this is 2015. Decoders have evolved a long way from back when it was "cool" to have "surround this, surround that, surround in everything and everywhere".
Nowadays most people just want to get the purest form of the content they can get. That's why we have DTS HDMA and whatnot.
That means that if the creators intended the sound to be listened in a 2.0 system it should be played like that. If they embedded a surround matrix it should be then played like that etc...
It's like people playing 4:3 games on 16:9 displays all stretched out. IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE PLAYED LIKE THAT. STOP DOING IT PEOPLE! I swear I cringe every time I see something like that.
And no, it's not a matter of personal preference like some people say it's a matter of doing justice to the source.
Sorry for the super duper long post but I just wanted to try and be as clear as possible.
Again, Nintendo should look into that. It IS a problem and it CAN be fixed. It's just that people don't seem to notice.

The only problem with what you are saying is that I can guarantee that if you connect a gamecube or a wii to your system and use a Pro logic 2 game you would still have to choose Dolby Pro logic manually.

 

[sideskroll]

The only problem with what you are saying is that I can guarantee that if you connect a gamecube or a wii to your system and use a Pro logic 2 game you would still have to choose Dolby Pro logic manually.

I know. That's why I'm saying that it shouldn't be an issue since the WiiU uses HDMI to connect.
I'm not asking for retrocompatibility. I'm asking for a standard protocol on of the interface.
HDMI= Digital, Digital= Autodetection.
Simple as that.

 

[strikerdark]

The only way for the decoder to work properly is if it recognizes the surround matrix in the audio feed. Otherwise the decoder just "fakes" surround sound instead of actually assigning individual channels as cued in the matrix feed (and you can verify that by enabling the decoder with ANY stereo source.

Also this is not 100% accurate. Yes any 2.0 source can be put through the Pro logic 2 codec. but when you put a gamecube/wii pro logic 2 game the game sends flags that the receiver uses to do do a better job with the separation of channels. This is how it worked on the gamecube, on the wii and now how it works on the Wii U's vWii

 

[flamepanther]

I know. That's why I'm saying that it shouldn't be an issue since the WiiU uses HDMI to connect.
I'm not asking for retrocompatibility. I'm asking for a standard protocol on of the interface.
HDMI= Digital, Digital= Autodetection.
Simple as that.

We're talking about games that don't have HDMI support made originally for consoles without native 5.1 support. It would be next to impossible for the Wii U to know if there's surround data encoded in the stereo audio without itself decoding the audio--which isn't a good idea for a few reasons. You don't magically get automatic detection on legacy games just because there's an HDMI port involved. On your DVD player or your consoles with support for newer audio standards, the media you play has metadata labeling whether the audio tracks are stereo PCM, Dolby Digital, etcetera, and that's why your receiver switches over, not because the device automatically detects it and adds a flag. Absent any nifty HDMI tricks, you have to set it manually. We're working with legacy games here. You'd have to do the same thing for PS2.

Also keep in mind that separation into fake surround is part of the PLII spec. That's not your receiver being a douche, it's just a built in behavior of PLII decoding when there's no surround matrix. The PLII decoder itself is designed to do that if the matrix is absent and use the encoded surround separation if it's present. Remember, it was designed for analog technology with no metadata.

You seem to know all that, so what am I wing at? What all this means is getting fake surround from most sources when you're in Pro Logic II mode DOES NOT mean fake surround in that mode for everything. It means the receiver stops watching for metadata and starts running all stereo audio through the PLII decoder. If there's real PLII encoding present, the receiver will decode it and not even know that's what it's doing. Since there's no likely way for vWii to strip out the encoding, it should still be there. Since it's based on analog technology with no flags or metadata, no flag is needed. If you don't trust the technology without a little indicator on your receiver, then the only way to know is to TEST it.

 

[ShadowOne333]

Thanks fix for fixing pal bios freezing
I can confirm pal games boot fine now
only problem is Mario GP 1&2 will give bios disc error
AX and Football game load with jap bios just fine though

I made a tiny fix to make GP games boot (by skipping bios for GGPE ID)
by changing loader/source/main.c line:
if(useipl)
to
if((useipl) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "GGPE", 4) != 0))

Edit: also suggesting exceptions for game ids starting with letter D
which makes weird demos and zelda inject boot

if((useipl) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "GGPE", 4) != 0) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "D", 1) != 0))

Edit 2: also make sure mcemu is on before booting the bios
if((useipl) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "GGPE", 4) != 0) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "D", 1) != 0) && (ncfg->Config & NIN_CFG_MEMCARDEMU))

same link
rev277 mod: http://copy.com/vRN3HgFVyk9u7YuB/Public/boot.do
Edit3:
All my games boot fine now using latest mod & they are ALL compressed

Edit 4: Also confirming that multiiso discs boot fine using the bios files

End of report

To the developers:
Could those lines be added to the official build to fix the Triforce/Demos/Injected games when using BIOS?

 

[AbdallahTerro]

To the developers:
Could those lines be added to the official build to fix the Triforce/Demos/Injected games when using BIOS?

it's only 1 line and a temporary fix,
most probably those bugs will be fixed properly later
I was just being picky to make all my games boot with the new update

 

[ShadowOne333]

it's only 1 line and a temporary fix,
most probably those bugs will be fixed properly later
I was just being picky to make all my games boot with the new update

I am picky too. XD
Will probably grab that custom build for now.

 

[FIX94]

To the developers:
Could those lines be added to the official build to fix the Triforce/Demos/Injected games when using BIOS?

I wont just add some id check no, I want a proper game detection.

 

[ShadowOne333]

I wont just add some id check no, I want a proper game detection.

Oh ok then.
Thank for your constant work in this app!

 

[sonictopfan]

Thanks fix for fixing pal bios freezing
I can confirm pal games boot fine now
only problem is Mario GP 1&2 will give bios disc error
AX and Football game load with jap bios just fine though

I made a tiny fix to make GP games boot (by skipping bios for GGPE ID)
by changing loader/source/main.c line:
if(useipl)
to
if((useipl) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "GGPE", 4) != 0))

Edit: also suggesting exceptions for game ids starting with letter D
which makes weird demos and zelda inject boot

if((useipl) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "GGPE", 4) != 0) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "D", 1) != 0))

Edit 2: also make sure mcemu is on before booting the bios
if((useipl) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "GGPE", 4) != 0) && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "D", 1) != 0) && (ncfg->Config & NIN_CFG_MEMCARDEMU))

same link
rev277 mod: http://copy.com/vRN3HgFVyk9u7YuB/Public/boot.dol

Edit3:
All my games boot fine now using latest mod & they are ALL compressed
Gamelist:

Spoiler

Sorted A-Z
Animal Crossing
Beyond Good and Evil
Bloody Roar Primal Fury
Bust-A-Move 3000
Chibi-Robo!
Cubivore Survival of the Fittest
Disney's Magical Mirror Starring Mickey Mouse
Eternal Darkness Sanity Requiem
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
F-Zero AX
Hudson Selection Vol.1 Cubic Lode Runner
Hudson Selection Vol.2 Star Soldier
Hudson Selection Vol.3 PC Genjin
Hudson Selection Vol.4 Adventure Island
Ikaruga
Kirby Air Ride
Luigi's Mansion
Mario Golf Toadstool Tour
Mario Kart 64 - Inject
Mario Kart Arcade GP
Mario Kart Arcade GP 2
Mario Kart- Double Dash
Mario Party 4
Mega Man Anniversary Collection
Mega Man X Collection
Paper Mario The Thousand-Year Door
Pitfall The Lost Expedition
Pokemon Colosseum
Pokemon XD- Gale of Darkness
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
Sonic Adventure DX Director's Cut
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Mega Collection
SoulCalibur II
StarFox Adventures
Super Mario 64 - Inject
Super Mario Strikers
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Smash Bros. Melee
The Legend of Zelda- Four Swords Adventures
The Legend of Zelda Majora Mask - Inject
The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time Master Quest - Inject
The Legend of Zelda The Wind Waker
Viewtiful Joe 2
Virtua Striker 4 ver.2006
Wario World
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorted by ID
D42J01 - Super Mario 64 - Inject
D43J01 - The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time Master Quest - Inject
D44J01 - Mario Kart 64 - Inject
D45J01 - The Legend of Zelda Majora Mask - Inject
G2VE08 - Viewtiful Joe 2
G3SE41 - Bust-A-Move 3000
G4QE01 - Super Mario Strikers
G4SE01 - The Legend of Zelda- Four Swords Adventures
G6QE08 - Mega Man Anniversary Collection
G8ME01 - Paper Mario The Thousand-Year Door
G9SE8P - Sonic Heroes
GAFE01 - Animal Crossing
GALE01 - Super Smash Bros. Melee
GBLE52 - Bloody Roar Primal Fury
GC6E01 - Pokemon Colosseum
GCCP01 - Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
GCVEEB - Cubivore Survival of the Fittest
GDME01 - Disney's Magical Mirror Starring Mickey Mouse
GEDP01 - Eternal Darkness Sanity Requiem
GFTE01 - Mario Golf Toadstool Tour
GFZJ8P - F-Zero AX
GGEE41 - Beyond Good and Evil
GGPE01 - Mario Kart Arcade GP
GGPE02 - Mario Kart Arcade GP 2
GGTE01 - Chibi-Robo!
GIKE70 - Ikaruga
GJSJ18 - Hudson Selection Vol.2 Star Soldier
GKYE01 - Kirby Air Ride
GLME01 - Luigi's Mansion
GM4E01 - Mario Kart- Double Dash
GMPE01 - Mario Party 4
GMSP01 - Super Mario Sunshine
GP4J18 - Hudson Selection Vol.3 PC Genjin
GPHE52 - Pitfall The Lost Expedition
GQRJ18 - Hudson Selection Vol.1 Cubic Lode Runner
GRSEAF - SoulCalibur II
GSAE01 - StarFox Adventures
GSNE8P - Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
GSOE8P - Sonic Mega Collection
GTNJ18 - Hudson Selection Vol.4 Adventure Island
GVSJ8P - Virtua Striker 4 ver.2006
GWWE01 - Wario World
GXGE08 - Mega Man X Collection
GXSE8P - Sonic Adventure DX Director's Cut
GXXE01 - Pokemon XD- Gale of Darkness
GZLE01 - The Legend of Zelda The Wind Waker

Edit 4: Also confirming that multiiso discs boot fine using the bios files

End of report

I want to add that Peach's Castle also doesn't boot if the bios were active so I wounder if an exception for this can be added, only problem is I don't know what the ID is, I sorta made my own, on the other hand the Zelda hacks seem to work fine (no bios screen at all) as well as Sonic Adventure Alpha which is weird, the other protos I have all work fine (with bios) even though the icon is missing (question mark instead).

 

[AbdallahTerro]

I want to add that Peach's Castle also doesn't boot if the bios were active so I wounder if an exception for this can be added, only problem is I don't know what the ID is, I sorta made my own, on the other hand the Zelda hacks seem to work fine (no bios screen at all) as well as Sonic Adventure Alpha which is weird, the other protos I have all work fine (with bios) even though the icon is missing (question mark instead).

check the gameid by hexediting the iso
it's the first 6 letters, you only need the first 4 letters though
then add && (memcmp(&(ncfg->GameID), "XXXX", 4) != 0) in side the new line where XXXX is your ID4
if you don't know how to compile just post your ID in the mod thread

Edit: and sonic adv alpha might have an ID starting with letter D so that's why the bios is skipped

 

[Troopage]

FullHD (1080p) display with the Wiiu outputting 1080p trough HDMI, right?
That's because the Wii (vWii in this case) actually outputs 448 (instead of the 480p standard) same as the gamecube. so your TV is just displaying the image that the WiiUs own upscaler spits out. 448p isn't neatly upscaled to 1080 widescreen. So as not to change the Aspect Ratio the image comes out like that. Don't worry, it's not actually "squishing" anything (you can tell by the shape of circles or similar in game)
You could try setting your TV to 16:9 or FULL or something like that instead of "1:1" or "just scan" or whatever those modes are called on your own TV if it bothers you that much.

Thank you for replying, sideskroll, but as it turns out though, there hasn't been a game I've played yet with perfect circles whether the Wii U Widescreen setting is on or not, which is especially made evident when GC controller button prompts appear. For some reason, the Aspect Ratio is indeed off. Also, as I said earlier, changing my TV settings doesn't fix the issue and the issue is even present on the gamepad's screen. I can link some screenshots it it helps.

 

[ned]

Sheesh. 5 pages later and still no response? Was my question really that bad? Lol
Here it is again for reference.

Like the force 16:9 option in wii64 which outputs proper pillarboxed 4:3?

 

[pin]

Try upgrading their have been sevreal changes that could affect your problem

Have done. Gonna buy a new wii-mote as see if it's the connection which is dodgy

 

[SuperrSonic]

Why doesn't the Wii U widescreen setting make the game fill the entire screen or proper 4:3? There are small black bars on left and right side, so whether the feature is off or on, Nintendont and the games it plays are either too stretched or too squished.

If it bothers you that much try Devolution and enable the horizontal scaling option; it will stretch by 32 pixels and you won't notice black bars on the left or right. It's what many Wii titles do otherwise you'd see the black bars on every game.

But note that nintendont doesn't do anything to change the aspect(disregarding the widescreen option), if you compare it side by side with a GC it's the same amount of wide. Then again on the Wii U it might be different.

 

[sideskroll]

We're talking about games that don't have HDMI support made originally for consoles without native 5.1 support. It would be next to impossible for the Wii U to know if there's surround data encoded in the stereo audio without itself decoding the audio--which isn't a good idea for a few reasons. You don't magically get automatic detection on legacy games just because there's an HDMI port involved. On your DVD player or your consoles with support for newer audio standards, the media you play has metadata labeling whether the audio tracks are stereo PCM, Dolby Digital, etcetera, and that's why your receiver switches over, not because the device automatically detects it and adds a flag. Absent any nifty HDMI tricks, you have to set it manually. We're working with legacy games here. You'd have to do the same thing for PS2.

Also keep in mind that separation into fake surround is part of the PLII spec. That's not your receiver being a douche, it's just a built in behavior of PLII decoding when there's no surround matrix. The PLII decoder itself is designed to do that if the matrix is absent and use the encoded surround separation if it's present. Remember, it was designed for analog technology with no metadata.

You seem to know all that, so what am I wing at? What all this means is getting fake surround from most sources when you're in Pro Logic II mode DOES NOT mean fake surround in that mode for everything. It means the receiver stops watching for metadata and starts running all stereo audio through the PLII decoder. If there's real PLII encoding present, the receiver will decode it and not even know that's what it's doing. Since there's no likely way for vWii to strip out the encoding, it should still be there. Since it's based on analog technology with no flags or metadata, no flag is needed. If you don't trust the technology without a little indicator on your receiver, then the only way to know is to TEST it.

Agree. BAck in the day when surround went "mainstream" and home based it was all the rage to just use it for anything. I remember people even listened to audi CDs with that crap on. I think in this day and age we're better than that. (At least I know I am cause in time I learned what is really surround sound and how it works) And that's why I said that my second (and main) concern aside from the fact that I'm always wondering if the game was indeed created with matrix encoded content or not was the bother of having to manually select PLII on a game by game basis.
And on that note and to end this *unrelated-to-nintendon't* conversation. Does anybody know if SNES/N64 etc games encoded with surround matrix translate to VC and such? I mean, is there for example a game in N64 and/or SNES with any kind of "test"?
I've NEVER in my entire life listened to a SNES surround game with a proper Dolby receiver before and I'd like to try it
Thnks guys.