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Do You Believe In God?
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Of course you wouldn't, you're in that happy happy cult.
About wahhabism, anyone who is a wahhabi Muslim don't get this post wrong. It is a relatively new movement, started from 19th century I guess, along with Ahmadiya almost I think. They really are a little bit extreme in their belief and infact many terrorist branch seem to follow their rules, to the utmost level.
Now let's consider the base of Islam in all sects. Pray five times a day, fast in the holy months, and if affordable the major Pilgrimage. None of these are acts of violence by any means. Even our biggest sins written in our Holy book are, Premarital For the children I'll let you guess, Taking the blood of another human, Pride, apostasy.
The core of Islam is for war though. Muhammad was a warlord who killed thousands. He killed those who would not convert. Heck, Muhammad was killed by a Jewish slave girl by poisoning in retribution for beheading most of her village and family.
However, Muhammad wasn't just a bloodthirsty tyrant, he was a genius strategist from the accounts in the Quran and matching history. He led raids and revolutionised arabian warfare by creating one of the world's first armies motivated by a coherent system of ideological belief.
Many Jihadi today use these points to kill as justification for their own insurgencies.
Last edited by G0R3Z,
"He killed those who would not convert"
Not universally by any means, indeed for my money it was probably only Genghis Khan that was more tolerant of different ideologies when doing the international warlord/warlord dynasty of note bit*. The history of the Jizya tax again being a good thing to look at. Neither would look particularly pleasant from a modern perspective but if we are looking at the most egregious shit done in history with idealogical motivations playing a big role then early Islam does not rank half as high.
*some of the sub Saharan African tribal stuff could count as international I guess, though not on the scales of the alternatives.
"Many Jihadi today use these points to kill as justification for their own insurgencies."
I read catcher in the rye once, now I am a killer. It seems about as useful a comparison.
Not universally by any means, indeed for my money it was probably only Genghis Khan that was more tolerant of different ideologies when doing the international warlord/warlord dynasty of note bit*. The history of the Jizya tax again being a good thing to look at. Neither would look particularly pleasant from a modern perspective but if we are looking at the most egregious shit done in history with idealogical motivations playing a big role then early Islam does not rank half as high.
*some of the sub Saharan African tribal stuff could count as international I guess, though not on the scales of the alternatives.
"Many Jihadi today use these points to kill as justification for their own insurgencies."
I read catcher in the rye once, now I am a killer. It seems about as useful a comparison.
Yet many muslims use the Quran as a book of historic fact, much as some christians do with the bible. Some people's faith is so strong that they can't seem to be able to see that it is a compilation of stories and myths.
I'm with you, it's ridiculous. But that's how it is. They read their holy book, see things that back up their point of view and run with it.
Last edited by G0R3Z,
There are literalists and similar* in every major and probably most minor belief systems. Likewise from what I have seen of the Quran and associated works there is a decent chunk of history in it, especially compared to the likes of the bible, jewish books, definitely most hindu stuff and the other things I might read. Taking it, and especially the hadiths, as read is a silly idea but there are worse choices for a book to do that from.
*strictly speaking literalism would probably be the notion that everything in it was some level of actual happening, however the concepts of parables and stories with meaning is older still, and clearly used in even the most cursory of readings, so strict literalism does strike me as an odd way to set about things. To that end the similar part of that would be those that are not strict literalists but would still take whatever book as the only authority on matters of morality.
*strictly speaking literalism would probably be the notion that everything in it was some level of actual happening, however the concepts of parables and stories with meaning is older still, and clearly used in even the most cursory of readings, so strict literalism does strike me as an odd way to set about things. To that end the similar part of that would be those that are not strict literalists but would still take whatever book as the only authority on matters of morality.
Some of the people in the is thread remind me of the champlain from The Stranger who kept getting mad and insisting Meursault has to believe in god because it's impossible not to lol
I agree that there were a lot of wars in the history of Islam, but where in the first law of Islam aka the Quran it is written there is punishment or no heaven for those who don't jihad? Surely there is no disagreement either from those picked verses of sword from the Quran are there, but none of them strain on the fact the one who is calm, prays and gives charity and follow virtue path according to Islam won't go to heaven. Their are also many of verses which indulge peace, now on the argument of supercession of previous verses by violent ones, according to Islamic history the quran was not revealed in order but verses were revealed according to situations. Most of the violent verses were sent down in times of war. During that time Muslims were not even one to start war and had faced a lot of persecution.
Besides ISIS or Deash as I like to adhere them, their martyr scheme doesn't work out, none can simply not be a martyr by blowing self up, even in 'Jihad' one can not be martyr killing one's own kind and drinking alcohol (Quite allegations I have heard), One can simply not wear black clothes (and flags which is a sign of Shia I think?) and call themselves Sunni. Lastly one can simply not kill defected children and claim a F***** Fatwa on it, don't you agree with me Muslims and non-Muslims alike? Where in the Quran is written to kill innocent children? Not even Sun nah says so. God! Reading the news daily makes me think I should take the Mars space program Asap.
Off-Topic: I have a Christian builders working on renovating my house and seeing them work honestly and justly I usually pay them extra than bill. Not only me my whole family and neighbourhood is alike. Infact my neigbours are currently non-Muslims in an Islamic country. Surprisingly my previous neighbours were also Christians but I still behaved with gratitude.
Last edited by MionissNio,
Very funny. Nonsense. This is about God discussion.
It's a comment about belief not being linked to anything remotely possible, which is very appropriate for this discussion.
The problem is they believe it does work out for them. In my opinion there is no afterlife, so they are dead and gone forever. In their opinion they will be given 72 virgins (
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins). It's not a risk I'd take, but I'm sure some people would. One woman causes enough problems, let alone 72 of them.
Last edited by smf,
It would be interesting to hear the reason(s) to peoples beliefs.
I'd say screw every man who think he deserves more than one woman. Females, especially virgin are way too precious and men like that do not deserve to even touch them or any interaction.
Just to be clear I am male.
It's not the Qur'an that has been changed it's the Hadeeth that could be changed -not that it's all been changed or alerted but some might = The Qur'an hasn't changed from the day it came cause it's been delivered to us person by person -in the Islamic religion there is something called "Igaza" which is the hearing and revising the Qur'an as it's heard from the prophet him self person by person until now - a person who has an "Igaza" will be memorizing the quran as it's heard from the prophet
with all the people in the chain registered and with multiple chains so that no mistake is made
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I consider myself agnostic. There's no solid proof any God of any religion exists, but I believe there is most definitely a higher power in our universe beyond our knowing.
How can you be sure something most definitely exists, if we can never know about it? That sounds like hyperbole.
I can do it too.... I'm one million percent positive there is no such thing as god or any similar higher power.
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