Hacking Bringing back the ability to boot flash carts on 3DS and DSi

[Ace Overclocked]

Yeah, it's time for a CFW. The DS lite wasn't able to run it because he doesn't have enough space for the roms. No one wanted to hack the DSi. But now it's time to make a custom firmware! Flashcards are outdated!

Off you go then.


Do let us know how you get on. We're all eager to see what you come up with!

Seems like you want to say that it's very difficult to write souch a channel.

Do you have tried it?

No I haven't tried it. Because I know that, despite being a software engineer, I have nowhere near the knowledge to even start. You don't even need to know anything about programming though to realise it's not an easy task. Just looking around here you will find the reasons why it's not easy.

Sounds like you're a lop more experienced than me, though. Perhaps you have a background in hardware? Well that's great. The scene really needs somebody like you. Like I say, we're all dying to try out what you manage to produce.

I havn't the nessecary knowledge but I think that it's not sooo hard for real pros.

Define a ''real pro''
And, whatever you may think, it is hard, and i know what i'm saying.

 

[Technicmaster0]

Define a ''real pro''
And, whatever you may think, it is hard, and i know what i'm saying.

First we have to define how many functions the CFW should have. Just a ROM Boot function or a GUI aso. I think that it'a not the hardest part to make something like that after someone found a exploit.

 

[Ace Overclocked]

Define a ''real pro''
And, whatever you may think, it is hard, and i know what i'm saying.

First we have to define how many functions the CFW should have. Just a ROM Boot function or a GUI aso. I think that it'a not the hardest part to make something like that after someone found a exploit.

You haven't been following up with the scene have you?
According to neimod the 3ds can't run new code even with an exploit, and finding one isn't an easy task anyway.
Then you have to code everything from scratch according to the way the exploit works, and coding isn't easy.
If you want to prove that it is, well the psp is explotabler to the very core, go make your own cfw or homebrew, and then we'll talk.

 

[Technicmaster0]

You haven't been following up with the scene have you?
According to neimod the 3ds can't run new code even with an exploit, and finding one isn't an easy task anyway.
Then you have to code everything from scratch according to the way the exploit works, and coding isn't easy.
If you want to prove that it is, well the psp is explotabler to the very core, go make your own cfw or homebrew, and then we'll talk.

I know that Neimod said that it's not possible to boot another application but there are applications that can boot or at least communicate with each other. It's possible to boot the internet browser from Colors! 3D, the QR reader or the movie channel and NSMB.2 communicates with the shop.

/edit
Yes, I'm not the oldest guy in the scene but I follow it since the crown3DS has 50%. I'm following the DS scene since about one and a half year.

 

[Pleng]

/edit
Yes, I'm not the oldest guy in the scene but I follow it since the crown3DS has 50%. I'm following the DS scene since about one and a half year.

This explains the tone of your posts somewhat.

Developing the UI and functionality is not the issue, as you seem to think it is. If there was a WAY to run custom code, there would be plenty of people capabale of designing a UI and introducing all the lovely features you might like from a CFW. The issue is finding a way to run the code in the first place. You figure that out, and you'll be a hero for a while.

 

[Technicmaster0]

/edit
Yes, I'm not the oldest guy in the scene but I follow it since the crown3DS has 50%. I'm following the DS scene since about one and a half year.

This explains the tone of your posts somewhat.

Developing the UI and functionality is not the issue, as you seem to think it is. If there was a WAY to run custom code, there would be plenty of people capabale of designing a UI and introducing all the lovely features you might like from a CFW. The issue is finding a way to run the code in the first place. You figure that out, and you'll be a hero for a while.

But I think that coding a Homebew Channel (just a homebrew channel) doesn't include finding a way through wifi or what ever to install it.

 

[Ace Overclocked]

/edit
Yes, I'm not the oldest guy in the scene but I follow it since the crown3DS has 50%. I'm following the DS scene since about one and a half year.

This explains the tone of your posts somewhat.

Developing the UI and functionality is not the issue, as you seem to think it is. If there was a WAY to run custom code, there would be plenty of people capabale of designing a UI and introducing all the lovely features you might like from a CFW. The issue is finding a way to run the code in the first place. You figure that out, and you'll be a hero for a while.

But I think that coding a Homebew Channel (just a homebrew channel) doesn't include finding a way through wifi or what ever to install it.

You're so ignorant, please do some research before posting such nonsense.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

But I think that coding a Homebew Channel (just a homebrew channel) doesn't include finding a way through wifi or what ever to install it.

It doesn't directly, but to code an application you need a way tu run your code to test if it works, in other words a way to run it on a 3ds or at least an emulator. Also, there's no libraries or documentation for coding a 3ds so one would have to do reverse engineering to learn how to code for it. Well, I would love to learn how to program a 3ds since I'm a programmer, but I know it's not possible atm...

 

[SifJar]

Topic managed about 2 pages before becoming completely derailed and going off topic.

On a more related note, I will mention a YouTube video that was released shortly after the release of the DSi, which showed a secondary device which was inserted in the DSi, booted up, and was then swapped for a legacy flashcard (by which I mean DS-only, no DSi compatibility) which then proceeded to boot. Apparently someone found a way to initialize a second cart. Having said that I'd like to draw attention to what is mentioned in this HackMii blog post: http://hackmii.com/2010/02/lawsuit-coming-in-3-2-1/

Research™ has shown that getting a DS cart to boot on a DSi requires quite a bit more effort than it did on a (DS)Lite. Cart timings are very important, you cannot eject the cartridge and insert a new one beyond the DSi menu. But most important of all, the DSi menu does additional integrity checking prior to booting the cartridge.

(Later in the article it goes onto to discuss in the difference in how the DSi and the DS (lite) initialise cards, but I guess that is irrelevant in light of the bolded text in the above quote.

 

[Janthran]

Source of the Youtube video?

 

[Rydian]

Any methods that require additional custom hardware are generally beat out buy just paying $15 for a new DSi-compatible cart.

 

[Foxi4]

Developing the UI and functionality is not the issue, as you seem to think it is. If there was a WAY to run custom code, there would be plenty of people capabale of designing a UI and introducing all the lovely features you might like from a CFW. The issue is finding a way to run the code in the first place. You figure that out, and you'll be a hero for a while.

I can't think of any feasable way to create hardware-based protection when it comes to code execution, which suggests that it's a software method, and software can be broken. Even the best Hypervisor can be fooled - took a while with the PS3, but it happened.

As long as the system *thinks* it's executing signed code, it's going to execute it plain and simple. If just one program has one faulty pointer that can be taken advantage of, you've placed a nuke in the security's basement. That's how it happened with DS-Mode, that's how it happened with DSi-Mode nobody cared for and that's how it will happen with 3DS-Mode.

No system is perfect and all systems can be exploited, sooner or later, be it by software or by hardware means. We'll get there eventually, it's just a waiting game.

Any methods that require additional custom hardware are generally beat out buy just paying $15 for a new DSi-compatible cart.

Isn't a cart also custom hardware, just interfacing with the console over the slot?

 

[Rydian]

Isn't a cart also custom hardware, just interfacing with the console over the slot?

Yes. And generally paying more for two objects is seen as stupid compared to paying less for one object that has the same end-result (in a smaller form-factor and with less physical hassle).

Customers don't want something that's more expensive and more hassle.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

That's how it happened with DSi-Mode nobody cared for

I wish DSi-Mode had more attention. I had the sudokuhax when I still had a DSi and it was nice to run the newers homebrew from SD card and I even got as far to recompile the code for many programs and ask the dsx86 developer directly to support sudokuhax. I can only imagine the benefit if we had something like this on the 3ds, but it is very unlikely

 

[Rydian]

It wouldn't run in 3DS-mode, it'd still be limited to DS-mode.

 

[McHaggis]

Topic managed about 2 pages before becoming completely derailed and going off topic.

On a more related note, I will mention a YouTube video that was released shortly after the release of the DSi, which showed a secondary device which was inserted in the DSi, booted up, and was then swapped for a legacy flashcard (by which I mean DS-only, no DSi compatibility) which then proceeded to boot. Apparently someone found a way to initialize a second cart. Having said that I'd like to draw attention to what is mentioned in this HackMii blog post: http://hackmii.com/2...oming-in-3-2-1/

Research™ has shown that getting a DS cart to boot on a DSi requires quite a bit more effort than it did on a (DS)Lite. Cart timings are very important, you cannot eject the cartridge and insert a new one beyond the DSi menu. But most important of all, the DSi menu does additional integrity checking prior to booting the cartridge.

(Later in the article it goes onto to discuss in the difference in how the DSi and the DS (lite) initialise cards, but I guess that is irrelevant in light of the bolded text in the above quote.

I'd guess that YouTube video was done by one of the flashcard teams or someone in TT, knowing that they may as well just create a new flashcard or, in the case of the latter, knowing that the primary purpose would be piracy. I think a WMB exploit would be pretty cool. I don't particularly care enough to buy a 3DS-enabled flash card, but occasionally I'd like to play some games with translation patches, like Fire Emblem 12, and possibly some homebrew.

People are saying we should concentrate on hacking 3DS mode. Yes, people who have the required skills should do that, but in the meantime what's the harm in us lesser folk brainstorming other ideas?

 

[Rydian]

If a 3DS-mode homebrew flash cart came out, I'd consider it, since it'd open the system up to lots of emulation possibilities. I use my PSP for emulation now but more power combined with new interest in porting/creating homebrew.

Of course if the emulator scene for it doesn't explode, I wouldn't get it. Wouldn't be worth it to me to buy a 3DS unless the emulation experience is going to be decidedly better than that of existing (button-containing) systems.

 

[samljer]

What if you used a single card with two totally different carts in it.
1 card, with the circuts of two - that can be changed with the flip of a small switch?
I dont know about how the 3DS detects card changes but if its a physical switch in the slot then this could work

Load up the card once youre where you need to be, flip the small witch "tiny led comes on showing ROM 2 is active". and go from that?

 

[Janthran]

What if you used a single card with two totally different carts in it.
1 card, with the circuts of two - that can be changed with the flip of a small switch?
I dont know about how the 3DS detects card changes but if its a physical switch in the slot then this could work

Load up the card once youre where you need to be, flip the small witch "tiny led comes on showing ROM 2 is active". and go from that?

I don't see the point in doing that.

 

[Rydian]

What if you used a single card with two totally different carts in it.
1 card, with the circuts of two - that can be changed with the flip of a small switch?
I dont know about how the 3DS detects card changes but if its a physical switch in the slot then this could work

Load up the card once youre where you need to be, flip the small witch "tiny led comes on showing ROM 2 is active". and go from that?

'Cause it's not just the software that's checked, the hardware is too, to an extent, so they'd need to clone each cart's layout and such, at which point they might as well just make and sell 3DS bootlegs.