Hacking So whats the deal with Sky3DS and Fire Emblem/potential future games?

guitarheroknight · Aug 4, 2015

I vaguely remember reading something on the web regarding it but I can really seem to recall it. It was some sort of talk about a new security Nintendo implemented preventing Sky to run Fire Emblem If and possibly upcoming games. Any Ideas?

Neru · Aug 4, 2015

Fire Emblem? Woah, someone should test out that new animal crossing game to see it that works.

Foxi4 · Aug 4, 2015

I believe it's either a problem with the ROM or the template Sky3DS is providing. Chances are that the Unknown ID they calculated is incorrect, hence the cartridge can't serve the ROM properly. The situation will be resolved eventually, I don't think it's a new and miraculous AP measure, but I guess we'll see. I'm asssuming you're talking about Fire Emblem if, yes?

Hopeful Death · Aug 4, 2015

The problem persists with both private headers and personal rom dumps so I would be inclined to rule out a problem with the rom or template. And just that if it was a simple template problem it probably wouldn't take over a month to fix.

Disco · Aug 4, 2015

Woah...didn't know this.... But they will probably crack this, like they did with cryptofix

I tried english menu patched one, on emunand 9.5 and it works fine.

guitarheroknight · Aug 4, 2015

If they could Im sure they would release a proper template by now but instead theyre suggesting that you use Pasta and firmlaunch

WulfyStylez · Aug 4, 2015

New games use new antipiracy checks which all sky3ds carts cannot (and will never) pass. These are enabled by the flags at 0x1FE in the NCSD header. FE:IF and the new Animal Crossing both use these new checks, but whoever dumped AC did a shit job by actually zeroing those bits (and consequently invalidating the entire NCSD header, smh.)

I haven't looked into it as far as I'd like to yet, but I'm under the impression these checks come from brand new hardware responses. Think AP2.5 on 360, except a bit tougher since carts are pretty much a black box compared to DVD drives. Sky3ds only ever existed because the protocol on 3DS carts is so simple and has relatively minimal security. Protocol-level (i.e. not just crypto) cart security like this should keep these cart emulator devices away from new games for a good while, thankfully.

The Real Jdbye · Aug 4, 2015

WulfyStylez said:
New games use new antipiracy checks which all sky3ds carts cannot (and will never) pass. These are enabled by the flags at 0x1FE in the NCSD header. FE:IF and the new Animal Crossing both use these new checks, but whoever dumped AC did a shit job by actually zeroing those bits (and consequently invalidating the entire NCSD header, smh.)

I haven't looked into it as far as I'd like to yet, but I'm under the impression these checks come from brand new hardware responses. Think AP2.5 on 360, except a bit tougher since carts are pretty much a black box compared to DVD drives. Sky3ds only ever existed because the protocol on 3DS carts is so simple and has relatively minimal security. Protocol-level (i.e. not just crypto) cart security like this should keep these cart emulator devices away from new games for a good while, thankfully.

Finally a response from someone who actually sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
Sky3DS green button confirmed, I guess?

Xenon Hacks · Aug 4, 2015

WulfyStylez said:
New games use new antipiracy checks which all sky3ds carts cannot (and will never) pass. These are enabled by the flags at 0x1FE in the NCSD header. FE:IF and the new Animal Crossing both use these new checks, but whoever dumped AC did a shit job by actually zeroing those bits (and consequently invalidating the entire NCSD header, smh.)

I haven't looked into it as far as I'd like to yet, but I'm under the impression these checks come from brand new hardware responses. Think AP2.5 on 360, except a bit tougher since carts are pretty much a black box compared to DVD drives. Sky3ds only ever existed because the protocol on 3DS carts is so simple and has relatively minimal security. Protocol-level (i.e. not just crypto) cart security like this should keep these cart emulator devices away from new games for a good while, thankfully.

Uggghhhh AP 2.5 and XGD3 were nightmares when the new wave DVD's were coming with them luckily C4EVA is a fucking genius.

guitarheroknight · Aug 4, 2015

WulfyStylez said:
New games use new antipiracy checks which all sky3ds carts cannot (and will never) pass. These are enabled by the flags at 0x1FE in the NCSD header. FE:IF and the new Animal Crossing both use these new checks, but whoever dumped AC did a shit job by actually zeroing those bits (and consequently invalidating the entire NCSD header, smh.)

I haven't looked into it as far as I'd like to yet, but I'm under the impression these checks come from brand new hardware responses. Think AP2.5 on 360, except a bit tougher since carts are pretty much a black box compared to DVD drives. Sky3ds only ever existed because the protocol on 3DS carts is so simple and has relatively minimal security. Protocol-level (i.e. not just crypto) cart security like this should keep these cart emulator devices away from new games for a good while, thankfully.

This is what I was looking for, thanks a bunch!

Deleted-19228 · Aug 4, 2015

WulfyStylez said:
New games use new antipiracy checks which all sky3ds carts cannot (and will never) pass. These are enabled by the flags at 0x1FE in the NCSD header. FE:IF and the new Animal Crossing both use these new checks, but whoever dumped AC did a shit job by actually zeroing those bits (and consequently invalidating the entire NCSD header, smh.)

I haven't looked into it as far as I'd like to yet, but I'm under the impression these checks come from brand new hardware responses. Think AP2.5 on 360, except a bit tougher since carts are pretty much a black box compared to DVD drives. Sky3ds only ever existed because the protocol on 3DS carts is so simple and has relatively minimal security. Protocol-level (i.e. not just crypto) cart security like this should keep these cart emulator devices away from new games for a good while, thankfully.

That kind of sucks. I like keeping all my games in box and use my own dumps on my Sky =/

nccom · Aug 4, 2015

WulfyStylez said:
New games use new antipiracy checks which all sky3ds carts cannot (and will never) pass.

Never say never. Current sky3ds can't pass that and since they probably contain non-updatable ASIC they won't pass in the future too...but new hardware revision might do that.

Deleted-19228 · Aug 4, 2015

It's what we used to have to do on the DSi before the cards became updateable.

gldoorii · Aug 5, 2015

So, basically for someone new to all this... the Sky3DS will work with certain games, but not for others, and will most likely not work with newer games?

Zidapi · Aug 5, 2015

gldoorii said:
So, basically for someone new to all this... the Sky3DS will work with certain games, but not for others, and will most likely not work with newer games?

Correct. The current Sky3DS works with 99% of 3DS ROMs, they're going to have to update their hardware if they want to maintain their compatibility claims.

WulfyStylez said:
Protocol-level (i.e. not just crypto) cart security like this should keep these cart emulator devices away from new games for a good while, thankfully.

Yeah, it's nice to see Nintendo finally starting to tackle the Sky3DS.

Psi-hate · Aug 5, 2015

Zidapi said:
Correct. The current Sky3DS works with 99% of 3DS ROMs, they're going to have to update their hardware if they want to maintain their compatibility claims.

Yeah, it's nice to see Nintendo finally starting to tackle the Sky3DS.

It bothers me though that Sky3ds is really easy to block anyway but Nintendo is starting to use very basic maneuvers to stop it. Several Devs had said that Sky3ds doesn't copy a cart 100% and even the gateway diagnostics agree that it's not a real cart. By blocking some new roms, it still makes older roms accessible. Nintendo is confusing sometimes. :wacko:

loco365 · Aug 5, 2015

Psi-hate said:
It bothers me though that Sky3ds is really easy to block anyway but Nintendo is starting to use very basic maneuvers to stop it. Several Devs had said that Sky3ds doesn't copy a cart 100% and even the gateway diagnostics agree that it's not a real cart. By blocking some new roms, it still makes older roms accessible. Nintendo is confusing sometimes.

At least they're starting to take a stand against the Sky3DS. Makes me wonder if a full block of the Sky3DS is actually possible now if they have to resort to a header value to check if it's legit or not.

lisreal2401 · Aug 5, 2015

Even without a full block on any games - new releases being unbootable will certainly reduce the value of the cart for some.

Xenon Hacks · Aug 5, 2015

Team Fail said:
At least they're starting to take a stand against the Sky3DS. Makes me wonder if a full block of the Sky3DS is actually possible now if they have to resort to a header value to check if it's legit or not.

that would be a nightmare for everyone if each game has a unique header that can't be spoofed or modified sure you could play offline but online play would be impossible.

Blue Lamb · Aug 5, 2015

Is the Gateway 3DS not in the same boat? What makes it different from the Sky?

Hacking So whats the deal with Sky3DS and Fire Emblem/potential future games?

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