Homebrew Is Possible To Make Playstation 1 Emulator On 3DS?

davhuit

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
994
Trophies
0
XP
550
Country
France
If we look at the progress in the 3DS emulator scene we notice one very rough and unfinished nes. One snes emulation that has gone rather far but has a LOT of work left before it is fully playable. We have one gb/gbc and two slow gba emulators. PS1 emulation can sure be done on the 3ds. But it will NOT happen unless something extremely drastic happens. Like there would be hundreds of competent new developers in the 3ds scene Over a night. Not going to happen.

You'll never have enough cpu power to run a PS1, even for 2D games, and that's why you might never see anyone trying as coders are fully aware of the specs they barely require to emulate something and won't try something which don't seem to be feasible (not to mention they don't seem to exist a lot of coders interested to make some emulators on 3DS, if you look at it, most people who worked on DS never worked on 3DS yet, like thoses who did NesDS, Goomba, SnesDS, JenesisDS, etc...).
 

Elliander

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
634
Trophies
1
Location
Illinois
Website
elliander.etherealspheres.com
XP
1,459
Country
United States
You'll never have enough cpu power to run a PS1, even for 2D games, and that's why you might never see anyone trying as coders are fully aware of the specs they barely require to emulate something and won't try something which don't seem to be feasible (not to mention they don't seem to exist a lot of coders interested to make some emulators on 3DS, if you look at it, most people who worked on DS never worked on 3DS yet, like thoses who did NesDS, Goomba, SnesDS, JenesisDS, etc...).

We don't have enough processing power to properly run a Gameboy Advanced, and that's why we have hard mods than contain the required processing power.
 

davhuit

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
994
Trophies
0
XP
550
Country
France
Oh, a 3DS might be able to run GBA games with a software emulator. There is already one that work not so bad (except speed), CitrAGB, and the coder plan to get it work at fullspeed from what he said (and yeah, it look feasible from my point of view).

But GBA and PS1 can't even be compared (comparing cpu speed is completely useless, that's not how it works for emulation, except for PCs because you can do everything in software as PCs doesn't really have any limits). For PS1 portable gaming, people are better to get a PSP.

For N64, it would be even worst.

I would say the limit to the emulation on 3DS is SNES/Genesis/MVS, though GBA could be probably done.
 

Elliander

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
634
Trophies
1
Location
Illinois
Website
elliander.etherealspheres.com
XP
1,459
Country
United States
Oh, a 3DS might be able to run GBA games with a software emulator. There is already one that work not so bad (except speed), CitrAGB, and the coder plan to get it work at fullspeed from what he said (and yeah, it look feasible from my point of view).

But GBA and PS1 can't even be compared (comparing cpu speed is completely useless, that's not how it works for emulation, except for PCs because you can do everything in software as PCs doesn't really have any limits). For PS1 portable gaming, people are better to get a PSP.

For N64, it would be even worst.

I would say the limit to the emulation on 3DS is SNES/Genesis/MVS, though GBA could be probably done.

Here's the thing: You don't need the flash cart to run everything. You just need the flash cart to emulate the architecture differences. From there the processing power of the 3DS itself would be more than enough. I don't see any reason why sufficient processing power can't fit into a flash cart. Sure, it would take a good team of programmers and engineers, but for that problem you could have an Indigogo campaign. There are also sites like Patreon where a person wanting to work on a specific project can actually get paid by the population. There are a few other ways to handle it as well. This is of course assuming that anyone with the skills wants to do it.
 

davhuit

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
994
Trophies
0
XP
550
Country
France
What? What is the link between the flashcart and cpu architecture not similar at all :wtf:?

A flashcart is just here to load a program, nothing more.

Or you are talking about adding a cpu in a flashcart? Could be done (like Snes Chips) but it's pretty useless because it would cost more. Better create your own mini PS1 at this rate. The creator of the thread was talking about a PS1 emulator would could run on a 3DS with the actual flashcards that exist, so mainly the gateway.

The 3DS power would never run a PS1 emulator, even coders didn't managed to make one on PSP who had a similar architecture (only peoples who managed to do a fully working one are Sony).

Then, if you like to believe to this dream, it's up to you :/ Seems pretty much useless to keep debating about such a thing.
 

Foxi4

Endless Trash
Global Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
30,828
Trophies
3
Location
Gaming Grotto
XP
29,859
Country
Poland
People seem to be under the impression that they can just shove whatever they want into the cartridge slot and it'll magically work as it did on the SNES, the Genesis or the GBA and that's not the case. Those systems had slots designed for expansion, especially the SNES - the slots connected the extra components on the cartridge directly to the relevant bits of the motherboards. This is not the case with the 3DS - the communication between the main CPU and the CPU on the flashcart takes place over data buses and as such it's greatly bottlenecked. It doesn't matter if the external CPU is beefy or not, it will only be able to process as much as the bus will allow it to I/O. This is why although the DSTwo has a far stronger CPU and additional RAM, its emulators still are far from perfect. Yes, you can divert a lot of the processing to the external CPU, but you have to consider bus limitations. The cartridge slot is not a PCI-E bus, it's not designed for external hardware like this, unlike the slots in the systems mentioned earlier.
 

Elliander

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
634
Trophies
1
Location
Illinois
Website
elliander.etherealspheres.com
XP
1,459
Country
United States
the communication between the main CPU and the CPU on the flashcart takes place over data buses and as such it's greatly bottlenecked. It doesn't matter if the external CPU is beefy or not, it will only be able to process as much as the bus will allow it to I/O. This is why although the DSTwo has a far stronger CPU and additional RAM, its emulators still are far from perfect. Yes, you can divert a lot of the processing to the external CPU, but you have to consider bus limitations. The cartridge slot is not a PCI-E bus, it's not designed for external hardware like this, unlike the slots in the systems mentioned earlier.

That's a very good explanation. Thank you. So what, specifically, are the upper limitations? And might it be possible to handle some processing exclusively on a cart before being passed to the console? If, for example, the two are treated like separate machines in a cloud computing operation could that bypass this limitation at least to some extent? Also, in regards to the N64, weren't there special hardware addons? At least one or two attached to the cartridge, but it looks like at the very least there was a built in way to compartmentalize game features to improve them. For example, a number of games had improved quality when coupled with the expansion pack.

So let's say that we can fully emulate an N64 or PS1 game without hard mods - just not very good or very fast. Might it be possible to use a hard mod to just speed things up? For example, in Road Rash 64 the expansion pack doubles the frame rate. If the expansion pack could be improved a bit in a hard mod and it ran slow on the 3DS itself together should allow for at least a normal or acceptable frame rate.
 

dubbz82

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
1,572
Trophies
0
Age
41
XP
1,215
Country
United States
That's a very good explanation. Thank you. So what, specifically, are the upper limitations? And might it be possible to handle some processing exclusively on a cart before being passed to the console? If, for example, the two are treated like separate machines in a cloud computing operation could that bypass this limitation at least to some extent? Also, in regards to the N64, weren't there special hardware addons? At least one or two attached to the cartridge, but it looks like at the very least there was a built in way to compartmentalize game features to improve them. For example, a number of games had improved quality when coupled with the expansion pack.

So let's say that we can fully emulate an N64 or PS1 game without hard mods - just not very good or very fast. Might it be possible to use a hard mod to just speed things up? For example, in Road Rash 64 the expansion pack doubles the frame rate. If the expansion pack could be improved a bit in a hard mod and it ran slow on the 3DS itself together should allow for at least a normal or acceptable frame rate.

To what end? You're no longer really dealing with a 3ds at that point. I mean, sure it'd be possible to do, but the vast majority of people won't go through that hassle (either because they don't have the skill to, or just plainly don't care enough). Can you drop a sports car engine into a lousy car? Sure, provided you have the skill and knowledge to do so (and it physically fits). Will it go faster? Yes. Was it worth the crazy amount of effort that had to be put into it? Most would say no.
 

Elliander

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
634
Trophies
1
Location
Illinois
Website
elliander.etherealspheres.com
XP
1,459
Country
United States
To what end?

Well, since this whole thread is about "Is it possible" I think it's important to draw the line as to exactly what would be required at a MINIMUM to make it happen, regardless of if anyone would ever actually do it. In the process we could find out what would never be possible, rather than people just saying it would never be possible.

I mean, people used to tell me (on this forum) that the Wii could never handle SDXC cards because of differences in the standards and all the official pages still say that SDXC cards are not compatible with SD slots, but I had absolutely no problems making it work and posting proof videos about it.

Well Proof of Concept is a thing. Personally I'd agree that it's a wasted effort, but someone out there might want to do it "just because"

That's another good point.

Eh, waste of code IMHO but that's just me.

It's only a waste of code if it's a wasted effort. After establishing what would be necessary maybe someone would actually decide to do it, and if a company can make money selling the mods they might just do it. Or maybe not. Who knows? I still think it's an interesting direction to talk in discussion. Suspend disbelief if you will. Let's assume someone crazy with their money actually wants to do it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Margen67

davhuit

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
994
Trophies
0
XP
550
Country
France
Then what would be the point? If it's not playable, then it's just a waste of coding.

None. My message implied that though it could be possible to do one, if you can't make it run correctly, it's useless.

I mean, people used to tell me (on this forum) that the Wii could never handle SDXC cards because of differences in the standards and all the official pages still say that SDXC cards are not compatible with SD slots, but I had absolutely no problems making it work and posting proof videos about it.

Can't really be compared. It's not because someone will say to you something is not compatible and that he's wrong, that's every other peoples saying thing are wrong, especially when we are not talking about the compatibility of a hardware but about emulation.

What would be required to do a good and working ps1 emulator? A similar architecture, like the PSP one or a really powerful system, which the 3DS is not. Maybe the successor of the 3DS might be able to do it, depending of it's specs, but not the 3DS (at least, if we are talking of an emulator who run most games at fullspeed and not just one game with lots of speedhacks for example).
 

MyJoyConRunsHot

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
410
Trophies
1
XP
1,446
Country
Canada
GATEWAY 3DS managed to get full access in DS mode, and from what I hear the DSTWO+ is also going to have full access enough to also be able to run DS carts within EmuNAND.

I'm talking 3DS mode. Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody so far has managed to whip up a homebrew with 3D graphics, let alone one using the full power of the machine. I'm pretty confident the 3DS does internally have the processing power to run most PS1 games accurately, but the scene has a long ways to go before it becomes a worth while attempt.
 

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    I liked the cameo the original cast did
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    @K3Nv2, I heard a member of the original cast died
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Rest of the plot was just average
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Egon was the best character
    +1
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    My favorite was the Key master in the first one, "Ok, who brought the dog?" - Rick Moranis
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Was way better than that ghostbusters: frozen in women power one
    +1
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    It was kind of a passing the torch idea which I didn't hate finally
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    The old Ghostbuster video game was pretty good also, newer one is just ok.
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Gotta be more specific nes one was garbage 360 was decent
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Yea 360/ps3 one I meant, I don't remember the Nes one tbh
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Yea I never played that one.
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    @BigOnYa, me neither
    +1
  • The Real Jdbye @ The Real Jdbye:
    @K3Nv2 gotta be more specific, there were 2 on the NES and one of them was pretty decent
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Well it's probably the one youtube link I posted
    +1
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    deleted my newgrounds account
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    bc of shame
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    You have shame?
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    @K3Nv2, made a new one
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    yawn
  • BakerMan @ BakerMan:
    guys, who would win
  • BakerMan @ BakerMan:
    Every character from HH/HB (hazbin hotel/helluva boss) VS Dante (devil may cry), Doom Guy (doom) and V1(ultrakill)
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Fairly odd parents
    K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2: Fairly odd parents