Homebrew Is Possible To Make Playstation 1 Emulator On 3DS?

[minexew]

3DS/N3DS: 133 Mhz GPU
PS1: 32-bit R800A (33mhz)
N64: 62.5 Mhz RCP

Please stop posting these numbers, they mean absolutely nothing, considering that
- the architecture is drastically different
- any GPU emulation would need to be very high-level anyway

 

[SolarisHeights]

if this is possible it would be nice to play crash banditcoot on this

 

[cutterjohn]

now thats thinking outside the box! i like that. i also like to try to do the impossible and break the limits of my electronics.

Yes. That was an emulator originally ported to the Dingoo A320 which had a MIPS based SoC. In theory it should've been possible to write a decent JIT translator for it as not much translation would be needed, however the original source was based on that from another ARM9(IIRC Korean handheld also forget the name of it) that had a pretty good MIPS->ARM9 JIT setup.

So, not much work was done on MIPS->MIPS, it was sssssllllllloooooowwwww and had no audio.

No idea how it was on the Korean handheld, but I suspect also sssslllooowwww but probably not as badly as people wanted it.

Then we have something like fpse for android which ran OKish on my first smartphone, and LG Optimus which was an old single core ARM11, ~600MHz IIRC and a measly 512MB(256MB?) of RAM pre-dating BOTH native support in linux AND any real JIT which as I mentioned ran OKish.

GPU shouldn't be much of a problem, just the CPU emulation/JIT(to get anything close to fast enough) is the problem. The original Korean handheld source MIGHT be a starting point.

(I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but if not I'll try tracking down the sites later, but if you're really interested try looking on dingoonity and possibly following it back to ... some handheld repo site which has files for tons of handheld, a320/openPandora/etc. I think that the korean handheld might've gp2se or something like that. It's been YEARS since I even thought about it...)

The a320 is ~360MHZ JZ4732 and the emulator OCed(by default IIRC) to 400+ MHz and it was still slow. The emu was for Dingux(linux on the a320) and NOT the shipped embedded OS. Actually MOST of the emulators were for dingux with a few written for the embedded OS. Also IIRC the jz4732 has no GPU(or at least 3D), but even w/o the a320 shipped with a pretty decent china made partially finished 3D game(software).

 

[MyJoyConRunsHot]

Well, as far as the GPU goes:

3DS/N3DS: 133 Mhz GPU
PS1: 32-bit R800A (33mhz)
N64: 62.5 Mhz RCP

The real question is if all of the capabilities of the 3DS are available for development.

As far as time goes, emulation projects in the past have been successfully crowd funded in the past. Just 6 months ago this campaign raised more than was needed for an N64 plugin. If a team was interested in such a project it wouldn't be that difficult to gain the funding to do so full time.

Wrong, it's 268MHz. Not that comparing Mhz will get you anywhere anyway.

 

[psvpwner]

I ran Bleem! (a commercial PS1 emulator) on my Pentium II 233MHz, 32MB SDRAM and 4MB Ati 3D Rage Pro back in the early 2000's
It was kinda playable...

Also, the same machine plays SNES perfectly (with SNES9X)

 

[dubbz82]

I ran Bleem! (a commercial PS1 emulator) on my Pentium II 233MHz, 32MB SDRAM and 4MB Ati 3D Rage Pro back in the early 2000's
It was kinda playable...

Also, the same machine plays SNES perfectly (with SNES9X)

You're comparing apples to toasters. Huge architectural differences between the two. Just because you can run an emulator on one relatively low powered platform doesn't mean anything at all for another platform unless they have similar architectures.

 

[davhuit]

It is indeed possible to make a PlayStation 1 emulator on 3DS. Probably even a PlayStation 2 emulator (would require to check the amount of ram and such things).

But I assume the question was "a playable" one and in that case, the answer is no. Even on PSP, the only homebrew PlayStation 1 Emulator I saw was running at only a few fps. Sony's official one works pretty good for two main reasons : 1) Similar architecture 2) Sony know better than anyone else their own systems.

I think the best you could get on 3DS is "16-bit" emulators (SNES/Genesis, probably also NeoGeo, which is also a 16-bit system).

Basically, more or less the same emulators from the DS, except 3DS could run most of them without requiring scaling and at fullspeed (for Snes, for example).

Snes ; Genesis ; NeoGeo (AES) ; NES ; Master System ; Game Gear ; Game Boy (B&W ; Color ; Advance) ; TurboGraphx 16 (PC-Engine in Japan) , NeoGeo Pocket (B&W & Color) ; Wonderswan (B&W & Color) ; Lynx ; Atari VCS 2600/7800 ; MSX ; A few other old japanese computers I don't have names in my mind right now, like the PC-98 if I remember one of the name correctly) ; Amstrad CPC ; Amiga ; Atari ST ; and probably Mame, but not all the games on it. Oh, I forgot, CPS 1-2.

All those things have high chances to be able to emulated without problems on a 3DS.

All things like 32-bit systems and such, not really, some struggled for a long time on the PC (like the Nintendo 64, so on a 3DS...)

I ran Bleem! (a commercial PS1 emulator) on my Pentium II 233MHz, 32MB SDRAM and 4MB Ati 3D Rage Pro back in the early 2000's
It was kinda playable...

Also, the same machine plays SNES perfectly (with SNES9X)

1) A 3DS can't be compared with a PC, MHz isn't the only information which is important in a CPU.

2) I advice you to read this page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem! You'll then better understand how they managed to get those results. Basically, it was high-level emulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-level_emulation) and though they had planned to release discs supporting 100 games, the only ones they released were only supporting one game, so in fact, it was a dedicated emulator for the game, not a classic one that can run any game.

 

[tbb043]

I ran Bleem! (a commercial PS1 emulator) on my Pentium II 233MHz, 32MB SDRAM and 4MB Ati 3D Rage Pro back in the early 2000's
It was kinda playable...

Also, the same machine plays SNES perfectly (with SNES9X)

Virtual Game Station was better. Bleem! had loftier goals, of rerendering things to look much nicer, but never really even got the core engine fully working right. VGS on the other hand pretty much only wanted to play games at original resolution, and did that very well. I think there might have been some games it didn't run (it did come out when PSX was still a current system) but everything I tried on it ran perfectly. So good that Sony wound up buying out the rights to get it taken off the market after they failed to get it stopped via lawsuit.

None of which has anything to do with PSX on 3DS, I'll admit, just something I think of whenever Bleem! comes up.

though they had planned to release discs supporting 100 games, the only ones they released were only supporting one game, so in fact, it was a dedicated emulator for the game, not a classic one that can run any game.

That's Bleem!cast for the DC. The PC Bleem! wasn't limited in which games it ran. Oh, lots of games wouldn't run right, but the whole packs thing wasn't for the original on computer. The only disc for Bleem! in that form was a CD Key, which only suckers like me bought because cracked versions were all over the place.

 

[davhuit]

Yeah, Virtual Game Station was pretty good, especially as PS1 was still the current system like you said when it was released, and wouldn't require a really high-spec computer.

 

[probablygay]

All of this discussion, but what's preventing anyone from attempting to port a PSX emulator? I'm sure the 3DS could run some of the 2D classics on PSX.

 

[minexew]

All of this discussion, but what's preventing anyone from attempting to port a PSX emulator? I'm sure the 3DS could run some of the 2D classics on PSX.

What's preventing you?

 

[Arras]

All of this discussion, but what's preventing anyone from attempting to port a PSX emulator? I'm sure the 3DS could run some of the 2D classics on PSX.

People who want to don't know how, people who know how can't be bothered. (and I think there's still no great way of making emulators for the 3DS? some very useful features for emulators are split between ninjhax and cia/3ds homebrew to the point where it's either or. at least that's what I remember reading from the guy who made the GBA emu)

 

[Elliander]

"Similar/different architecture" arguments only go so far. Back before Apple allowed it's operating system to run on i386 computers it was STILL possible to emulate it on i386 and vice versa. At full speed. Architecture differences just mean that in order to properly emulate you must devote extra processing power and memory to emulating the architecture as a layer. That's why, for example, you can run PS1 emulators on a Linux emulator on a 3DS slowly. The larger question is how much would be required to run it at fall speed and if it is lacking how much extra would be needed on a hard mod or a cart.

All of this discussion, but what's preventing anyone from attempting to port a PSX emulator? I'm sure the 3DS could run some of the 2D classics on PSX.

The problem is that you would likely need a fully functional emulator to play even a few games. It would be far easier to port those individual games. One of my favorite Sega Saturn games, for example, has no problem running on a 3DS - because El Hazard was ported as a Gameboy Advance ROM.

 

[LumInvader]

"Similar/different architecture" arguments only go so far. Back before Apple allowed it's operating system to run on i386 computers it was STILL possible to emulate it on i386 and vice versa. At full speed. Architecture differences just mean that in order to properly emulate you must devote extra processing power and memory to emulating the architecture as a layer. That's why, for example, you can run PS1 emulators on a Linux emulator on a 3DS slowly. The larger question is how much would be required to run it at fall speed and if it is lacking how much extra would be needed on a hard mod or a cart.



The problem is that you would likely need a fully functional emulator to play even a few games. It would be far easier to port those individual games. One of my favorite Sega Saturn games, for example, has no problem running on a 3DS - because El Hazard was ported as a Gameboy Advance ROM.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the El Hazard English script? Reading about it online, I came across notes from the dev stating the translation isn't particularly accurate and needs to be rewritten. It's an anime I watched years ago, which is why it interests me.

As for anyone wanting portable PS1 gaming:

Just get a PSP. They're dirt cheap and play the vast majority of PS1 games perfectly.

Granted, playing PS1 games on the 3DS is a nice fantasy, but so is using a Ferrari's lighter socket as my personal battery charger. And when it's fully charged, I ascend a golden staircase where Victoria's Secret models are having pillow fights while waiting to play Mario Kart 7 with me.

 

[Esppiral]

It is indeed possible to make a PlayStation 1 emulator on 3DS. Probably even a PlayStation 2 emulator (would require to check the amount of ram and such things).

c'mon...

 

[TemplarGR]

It is possible but there will be speed issues, especially on demanding games.

The PSP, while being weaker, could play PS1 games perfectly because it uses the same CPU architecture. There is no need for cpu to cpu translation, the most heavy of all tasks in emulation.

Actually, the PSP didn't "emulate" PS1 games. It just used a wrapper library to translate systemcalls, like for example WINE does to run Windows games on Linux. If the PSP had used the usual emulator approach, of recompiling the code, it would take a huge cpu performance hit, and PS1 games would become unplayable.

Anyway, in theory the 3DS could run a PS1 emulator, but it will be like earlier versions of bleem on weak PCs. Too many compatibility issues and low fps.

 

[MyJoyConRunsHot]

All of this discussion, but what's preventing anyone from attempting to port a PSX emulator? I'm sure the 3DS could run some of the 2D classics on PSX.

We don't even have kernal access. So the hardware we can use is limited.

 

[davhuit]

c'mon...

You probably didn't read my whole message, where I saw it can be done but would not be playable.

 

[SLiV3R]

If we look at the progress in the 3DS emulator scene we notice one very rough and unfinished nes. One snes emulation that has gone rather far but has a LOT of work left before it is fully playable. We have one gb/gbc and two slow gba emulators. PS1 emulation can sure be done on the 3ds. But it will NOT happen unless something extremely drastic happens. Like there would be hundreds of competent new developers in the 3ds scene Over a night. Not going to happen.

 

[Elliander]

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the El Hazard English script? Reading about it online, I came across notes from the dev stating the translation isn't particularly accurate and needs to be rewritten. It's an anime I watched years ago, which is why it interests me.

I loved it. I only know a little bit of Japanese, but from what I do understand sometimes a completely accurate translation doesn't quite translate that well. I would rather everything sound right with the underlying meaning intact. If you play, just remember that to Mr. Fujisawa drugs and alcohol are very very bad

As for anyone wanting portable PS1 gaming:

Just get a PSP. They're dirt cheap and play the vast majority of PS1 games perfectly.

I have a PSP and I modified it without any problems. In fact, since I can use two microSD cards I can technically fit twice as many games on a PSP as a 3DS (at least until the full SD slot becomes usable, but then again the N3DS seems to use a microSD slot anyway) Still, that doesn't mean I can't WANT to also be able to play PSX games on the 3DS, though I would much rather see N64 games running on the 3DS first.

In either case, one advantage that a 3DS would have is the cart. It's a bit easier to load a modification on a card than on a disc. You can't fit a new CPU on a disc.

Also, It just seems like it might be possible to not only have an emulator working, but an emulator with multiplayer. So, for example, imagine playing "Conker's Bad Fur Day" on the 3DS and when playing the 4 player mode each player's 3DS could be treated as if it was a separate controller with all 4 devices mirroring screens. From there if you could find a way to only display part of the screen and adjust you could be able to play without having to see everyone else's screen.

Still, the question is WHAT extra hardware modifications would be required at a minimum to do it.

If we look at the progress in the 3DS emulator scene we notice one very rough and unfinished nes. One snes emulation that has gone rather far but has a LOT of work left before it is fully playable. We have one gb/gbc and two slow gba emulators. PS1 emulation can sure be done on the 3ds. But it will NOT happen unless something extremely drastic happens. Like there would be hundreds of competent new developers in the 3ds scene Over a night. Not going to happen.

That's without hard mods. Should we really restrict this conversation to soft mods?

We don't even have kernal access. So the hardware we can use is limited.

GATEWAY 3DS managed to get full access in DS mode, and from what I hear the DSTWO+ is also going to have full access enough to also be able to run DS carts within EmuNAND.