So disregarding the offended people of the temp, The WiikeyU is probably a hoax and the Wii U overall is going to fail... badly did I get things right? Because that seems way more important stuff than all the warez talk.
Marcan Clarifies
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This is the same reason yifanlu won't release the Vita hack -- no legitimate developer interest. I'm amazed the homebrew scene has come to this. Pretty depressing stuff.
I guess smartphones really are competition to handhelds... marcan mentions that there are already quad core mobile processors, so who knows, with ppsspp for android, and the announcment of dolphin, that market with bigger consumer base looks better for developers to invest their effort and time than a shaky videogame handheld console.
Copied from the original thread, since I just found this one....
I think what marcan posted puts everything in new perspective. People tend to do things for the challenge, the excitement, or the enjoyment. It seems like after the challenge wore off the other two weren't there, and the people he shared it with don't think so either. Fascinating read, really, and understandable if not a little sad. Only thing I don't agree with is his logic for thinking Wii U Key is fake (as I sad in that thread, it does nothing but destroy thier credibility), but time will tell on that.
Like Rydian said, you don't have to be a dev to contribute. I make no allusions of adding any value whatsoever to these forums, but I try to help when I can.
I think what marcan posted puts everything in new perspective. People tend to do things for the challenge, the excitement, or the enjoyment. It seems like after the challenge wore off the other two weren't there, and the people he shared it with don't think so either. Fascinating read, really, and understandable if not a little sad. Only thing I don't agree with is his logic for thinking Wii U Key is fake (as I sad in that thread, it does nothing but destroy thier credibility), but time will tell on that.
Like Rydian said, you don't have to be a dev to contribute. I make no allusions of adding any value whatsoever to these forums, but I try to help when I can.
So few people bother with dumping their own games though. I can guarantee that at least 98% of the GBAtemp user base that plays dumps of games on at least one console, tablet, smart phone, what have you, pirate their games. Hackers aren't stupid. They know that if they release something that leads to playing back ups, it will be used to play illegal dumps of games. That isn't why they hack, and if they don't want to release their discoveries knowing what would happen with them, it's entirely their choice. Even then, you saw it right there, if a hack is going to be released, they want it out for the creation of homebrew, which seems to be a dying idea with the ease that comes with the creation of smart phone apps anymore for either iOS or Android.
Essentially, your argument isn't an argument. It's a rare exception.
Well that gets into the whole homebrew versus retail divide. Most people don't use emulators to run homebrew for old systems, they use it to run retail games for old systems. The quality, depth of content, and sheer number of entries for retail games is often much higher than for homebrew games on any given system.
I disagree here, it's announced by the same team that did the GC and Wii modchips so it'd have to be one hell of a setup with a lot of risk for them to fail. Even if they are just bringing this info to light in the hopes of other info being released, they would still need to take that info and actually develop a hardware product with it, which is not a single-week task.
I'm not surprised, since there's dev-friendly devices out there now that are as powerful as or more powerful than the closed consoles. It wasn't like this years ago.
It's not just smartphones (which are often bogged down by software), my Transformer Prime TF201 is a quad-core ARM with HDMI-out (and bluetooth, and wifi, etc.), and I've had it in my hands for one year already (ordered it last April).
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Would contributing in some way eventually help persuade the hackers to feel less animosity towards the Temp...? There's got to be a way to help them. It would be nice to see the Wii U have better ported emulators and a means of homebrew, but unfortunately, most won't use it that way.
Edit: Never mind, found what I was looking for
There are worthy reasons to work towards that exception, however. If any of this work could lead to a functioning WiiU emulator, then that would help people like my brother, who are physically handicapped and unable to grasp and correctly move any standard controller, enjoy Nintendo's great games. My brother was born with a terminal disease that weakens and destroys his muscles without ceasing, from his feet and upwards. As he's grown up with Nintendo, enjoying and loving their games, Nintendo consoles have become more and more difficult for him to be able to play. Once the DS hit, Nintendo sealed the casket--my brother could not feasibly hold the console, use a stylus, and press buttons. He couldn't handle how much dexterity the console required. Then the Wii showed up. And the 3DS. And now the WiiU. Quality experiences and games my brother has always loved from Nintendo were to be taken from him, just as his disease had taken his capability to move and live freely, because these systems predicated on having a certain degree of physical functionality beyond his means.
But with the aid of emulators, we were able to rig a custom device he uses to control his PC to act as a sort of controller, and through some interesting control setups via keyboard emulators (to translate his custom input pad into keyboard controls, to then be recognized in the emulator), we were able to get him to finally experience some Wii and DS games. We are in an incredible minority, I am sure, but a cause like ours isn't an exception worth disregarding.
Woulda been cool to play wii games on the pad. 
I think aside from the "twitards" and IRC gatherers , most people were under the assumption that we should leave them to it , like it must be a time consuming thing to dev , lets not pester them for such things , as we understand the work involved (not how to do it). At least that was my assumption , that things were happening but under the radar of most. It nice to hear they aint going to bother , at least it puts an end to the speculation.
I think given the chance homebrew would flourish . Shame that the likes of the wiikey people are going to profit from this , just hope no one finds out how to scrub wiiu iso's the size might detract some.
Woulda been cool to play wii games on the pad.
I think aside from the "twitards" and IRC gatherers , most people were under the assumption that we should leave them to it , like it must be a time consuming thing to dev , lets not pester them for such things , as we understand the work involved (not how to do it). At least that was my assumption , that things were happening but under the radar of most. It nice to hear they aint going to bother , at least it puts an end to the speculation.
I think given the chance homebrew would flourish . Shame that the likes of the wiikey people are going to profit from this , just hope no one finds out how to scrub wiiu iso's the size might detract some.
Woulda been cool to play wii games on the pad.
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Last October qualcomm and AMD said there should be nothing stopping smart phones from having the graphics power of the xb360/ps3 by the 2Q of 2015. At cheap low production cost too. And smart phones are advancing happening faster than qualcomm's predictions.
Hard to be motivated to hack the wii-u for homebrew when something just as powerfull is so close to being released in portable form.
IMO the eshop isn't going to be doing so well once these phones come out. Devs are going to go after the bigger audience. Who doesn't have a phone of some type these days? 3rd party devs may even flack to smart phones and tablets instead of Nintendo for non-casual games.
If the big names in gaming are not excited nor are the homebrewers about the Wii-u, how can Nintendo get even india devs on board?
Overall I'm not really surprised. The Wii-u was an horrible idea in hindsight, based on where the market is going.
You guys wanna know what the real problem is?
We won.
No, seriously. The developers who are building homebrew software and indie games have finally won the fight against the console creators. With official tools, such as the Nintendo Web Framework, Wii_Unity, XBLA/IG,PSN/Mobile and the laxing of initial entry requirements for becoming an official third party developer developer for the Wii U and 3DS, the large amount of developers who WOULD be creating homebrew for the WiiU/3DS, and thus creating actual interest for hack releases are moving on to legitimately develop for these systems. hell, there are devs kickstarting for WiiU games now!
The battle for homebrew is over, and we won.
There's nothing left for the hacking community BUT Backup Launchers and Emulators.
Welcome to the Party.
We won.
No, seriously. The developers who are building homebrew software and indie games have finally won the fight against the console creators. With official tools, such as the Nintendo Web Framework, Wii_Unity, XBLA/IG,PSN/Mobile and the laxing of initial entry requirements for becoming an official third party developer developer for the Wii U and 3DS, the large amount of developers who WOULD be creating homebrew for the WiiU/3DS, and thus creating actual interest for hack releases are moving on to legitimately develop for these systems. hell, there are devs kickstarting for WiiU games now!
The battle for homebrew is over, and we won.
There's nothing left for the hacking community BUT Backup Launchers and Emulators.
Welcome to the Party.
So did NVidia. Welp, good luck with that. It's not going to happen, I'm afraid. The 360's GPU performs 240 GFLOPS wheras the Tegra 4, currently the strongest GPU in NVidia's mobile arsenal performs 96 of them. If Moore's law is anything to go by (it is
), the number of transistors on the die and with it the processing power of CPU's and GPU's should double each two years - we have the year 2013, so by 2015, we should see a Tegra 5 that will perform about 192GFLOPS - close, but not close enough.Another problem is the energy consumption - a home console is connected to the mains and for all intents and purposes, it can eat more WATT's of power than a binge eater eats hot dogs - this is not the case with mobile technology which has to be energy efficient first and foremost. Until we come up with much, much better batteries for our mobile devices, the development of mobile hardware will be hindered.
Due to those two factors (and more) I find their prediction to be greatly unrealistic. Moreover, we have to consider the fact that the XBox 360 was released in 2005 - if Smarphones by some magical series of fortunate events match its processing power by 2015, it's still 10 years later. That kind of an achievement might sound very impressive now, but in two years time when we'll all move on to next generation systems we might look back at the PS3/XBox 360/Wii and giggle at how blocky those graphics were in comparison to what we have now just like we did every single generation before - a point of reference is very important here.
The WiiU far surpasses the computing power of the XBox 360 and the PS3 - fact. We don't know the exact processing power of the Latte GPU, however when comparing its scans to existing AMD technology one can speculate that it's anywhere between 176GFLOPS (unlikely, we already know that it's stronger in comparison to XBox 360's GPU) and 352GFLOPS (a much more likely scenario) - Smartphones aren't going to be anywhere near that kind of processing power, not in 2015 at least.
Quite easily, actually. Not all phone owners are particularily interested in games and the pricing of mobile games is pretty low in comparison to console games. Moreover, console hardware is specifically created for video game purposes wheras Smartphones are all-purpose computing devices - the SDK's are built in a different way and cater to different styles of development.
Why? Tablets are getting more and more popular, the tablet controller was a stroke of genuis. It's a shame that the system was not released, say, a year or two earlier though - then it would have enough time to prove what it's worth and actually compete in the generation in which it belongs rather than play the catch up game with existing consoles before the PS4 and the XBox 720 are released.
I disagree. I'm no big-time developer, but I do enjoy doodling and coding for the DS, however I find myself unwilling to pay publishing fees on a yearly basis for the opportunity to do so, so that argument goes completely out the window. You know when's a good time to ask for a publishing fee? When I want to publish something.
Moreover, some of those tools (PSMobile Suite, Nintendo Web Framework) don't even use native code - they're interpreters which limit your resources and don't really give you a lot of hardware access which is often a big no-no. That, and in the case of PSMobile Suite a lot of the functionality is actually cut out for the sake of cross-compatibility. The PSVita has 512MB RAM and 128MB VRAM - how much of it do you get to access when developing in PSM? If memory serves me well, 128MB RAM, and that's both for game code and resources - lovely. That lovely touch panel on the back? Can't use it - smartphones don't have that so it can't be included in PSM. Of course all this is not to say that it's worse than developing for PSP Mode - hell no! I mean, look at this:
...what I'm saying is that it's unnecesarily restrictive for the sake of cross-compatibility with other devices which is a huge shame, plus... well, it's not native code - it works on MonoVM, so you're not using all the resources you could use.
Homebrew developers don't have actual devkits these days - the one and only instance of that happening was Sony's PlayStation Net Yaroze which was commercially available, region free and came with an SDK, but even that was a cut-down version of what full-time developers used. The restrictions are still draconic, hardware access is still impeded, developers are still forced to use (what many treat as) inferior coding languages and practices and the consoles are still very much "locked" for them.
Actually not really.
NAND dumpers and other systemtools are still not permitted by Ninty/MS/Sony.
So are ports of Quake etc.
And some countries in the EU don't have XBLIndie games.
But yeh, I do agree with you.
Homebrew game makers have won with official SDK's indeed.
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its funny but true
nice to know it can be done, but that's as far as my interest peaks
Wii mode with the 3 cores would be great as sounds like a load of fun, using the WiiU hardware on the Wii would be nice too. Maybe even able to mod it to use the gamepad screen as a tv for the Wii games and then just use the normal Wii remote for control. Also modding that the Wii could become a gamecube portable
But at least people know it can indeed happen.
nice to know it can be done, but that's as far as my interest peaks
Wii mode with the 3 cores would be great as sounds like a load of fun, using the WiiU hardware on the Wii would be nice too. Maybe even able to mod it to use the gamepad screen as a tv for the Wii games and then just use the normal Wii remote for control. Also modding that the Wii could become a gamecube portable
But at least people know it can indeed happen.
Graphical power != "computational" power.
I maintain that the Wii U's CPU is a disappointment.
I know it's a small nitpick, but a lot of people don't know the differences and might be mislead into thinking the Wii U can be an emulation beast or something...
Read the context - he was talking about how mobile devices will reach the graphical fidelity of current generation consoles, so I focused on the computational power of the GPU's (Or perhaps I just misunderstood what he meant - either way, the same mechanisms apply to CPU's, really - it's just the focus of the unit that's different).
While the WiiU's CPU is indeed very underwhelming, (let's face it - it's literally three Wii cores strapped together and overclocked, more or less) it is also not essential for video game purposes - most of the strain goes on the GPU these days and a "passable" CPU is entirely enough as long as the GPU compensates for it.
Again, CPU's deal with integer maths, GPU's with floating point and seeing that most productions these days are made in 3D and feature advanced physics engines, developers opt for the precision of floating point, so the CPU is not exactly in the spotlight most of the time.
As for Emulation, here the situation naturally flips 180 degrees - a strong processor is required to emulate a different architecture - something the WiiU unfortunately doesn't have, so we agree in this regard.
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Veho:
It's not like they're complaining that their Slurpee is 99% ice or something, but if the cocktail calls for "shot of vodka, shot of vermouth, shot of gin, shot of Campari, three shots of juice, squirt of lemon" and ends up being a thimbleful of booze, that's a problem. -
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The Real Jdbye:
the funny thing is cocktails in norway are only allowed to have 1 20ml shot of booze -
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The Real Jdbye:
but you could buy as many shots of whisky (or anything else) as you want and ask for a glass of ice and pour them in
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Veho:
There was a comparison of the number of Ibuprofen poisonings before and after they limited the maximum dosage per box or per pill (i'll look that up). No limit on the number of boxes you can still buy as many as you want, so people argued it was pointless.
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Veho:
But the number of (accidental) poisonings dropped because drinking an entire package of ibuprofen pills went from "I need a new liver" to "I need a new box of Ibuprofen".
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Veho:
Here we have ketoprofen that used to be prescription-only because of the risk of toxic dosages, but then they halved the dose per pill and sell them in bottles of six pills apiece instead of twenty and it doesn't need a prescription any more. Yes you can buy more than one bottle but people simply don't.
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Psionic Roshambo:
Usually accidentally overdose of ibuprofen here is from people taking like cold medicine then ibuprofen for a headache and the combination is over what they need -
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