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[POLL] Who are/would you vote for United States President?

Who are/would you vote for United States President?

  • Hillary Clinton (Democrat)

    Votes: 77 24.2%
  • Donald Trump (Republican)

    Votes: 127 39.9%
  • Gary Johnson (Libertarian)

    Votes: 26 8.2%
  • Jill Stein (Green)

    Votes: 21 6.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 67 21.1%

  • Total voters
    318
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RevPokemon

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I do not.
Putting aside our sharp disagreements on economics I must ask this.

Assuming I am like you and support a mixed capitalist system (rather than anarcho capitalism or socialism) with sensible government regulations because without them it would be awful. Under that system wouldn't you argue that it is a sensible regulation to require companies that use GMO to label them? On the company's side it is not that hard to comply to and on the consumer's side it is something they should know about even if it is not harmful. Most industrial nations and the EU require them. Plus I do not feel that GMOs are bad personally but requiring them to be labeled =/= thinking they are bad since you could argue there is a right to know what is in the products.


Also off topic but since this has been mentioned, I support open borders with no restrictions when it comes to immigration.
 

Joe88

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I think you need to look at actual examples of when governments and leaders control the media.
lets look at some recent examples


It doesnt exactly take a brain surgeon to know mass media is manipulating people's thought's and actions, and it not just the huff post, pretty much all major news outlets

another one where pbs censored jill steins interview that were comments against clinton
https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/770076410882949124

cnn removing part of trumps tweet
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016...crubbing-crooked-moniker-to-describe-hillary/

yet another but more extreme example of cnn censoring
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/cnn-edits-out-milwaukee-victims-sister-sherelle-sm/


Govt control of media censorship isnt new by any means but this by the far the worst anyone has seen (at least in the usa)
Turn on any news channel or vist their website and you will most likely find pro-clinton news, and negative trump news, most of which are made up and claimed as "internal sources" but its the equivalent of "CNN told CNN".
Even just recently trump said he would release his media records if clinton would too (because a certain media outlet called him out on his health trying to downplay and coverup clinton's health reports) mass media went full damage control yet again and covered it up and we get trash like this instead http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-mental-health-mika-brzezinski-227492
 
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TotalInsanity4

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RevPokemon

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Can you quote what you're trying to highlight? I'm on school wifi and it totally breaks the format of that site
Basically Trump supporters are saying CNN canceled Dr.Drew after he said something about those claims regarding her health. Trump supporters are saying it is due to his statements and thus CNN helping trump.

Personally I think it is bullshit to say her health is bad and also bullshit to say this is CNN helping Clinton.
 

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Basically Trump supporters are saying CNN canceled Dr.Drew after he said something about those claims regarding her health. Trump supporters are saying it is due to his statements and thus CNN helping trump.

Personally I think it is bullshit to say her health is bad and also bullshit to say this is CNN helping Clinton.
I'm gonna be honest, CNN really is doing what they can to give Clinton a hand by reporting on stuff non-objectively. However, now that the Democratic National Convention is over and CNN is a more liberal media source anyway it doesn't really matter anymore
 

Lacius

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Lol, Dodd-Frank did shit for preventing derivatives of subprimes to reappear.
Dodd-Frank did and continues to do a lot of good, actually. It's also far from anything Wall Street supports.

You got the head of the FBI saying they would investigate further if the AG would ever indite her.
You have it reversed.

And that's not even relevant, she didn't secure national security documents, everyone knows that's a fucking felony.
Secretary Clinton didn't send or receive any information marked classified on her server.

As usually defined, no. Real wages keep decreasing, though.
It is true wages are stagnant, but that's not a recession.

Yes, because the enormous increase in pesticide usage that has paralleled GMO production is totally "beneficial" for the environment and will definitely be "world-saving.":rofl2:

As for GMO crops themselves, they are almost always pesticide-laden and have done much more harm for people's health than good. As for the "benefits," there have not been any long-term studies about how ingesting GMO products affects your health, but the short-term studies (independent, unbiased ones) have shown nothing but a negative impact on your health.
There is no evidence that GMOs have any negative effect on one's health. Also, the presence of GMOs is actually positively correlated with the use of fewer pesticides, in addition to a reduced need for land and other resources. I suggest you research how most GMOs actually work.

As I implied, me and others have presented the facts to you a million times before, only for you to ignore them. Because of this, I knew that it would be a waste of time.
First, you make a quip that I respond to everything. Now you're saying I ignore things? Which is it? Because I'm pretty sure I've directly responded to each fact that I've been presented.

You must be in bed with Monsanto and company. I honestly cannot think of any other reason why someone would want people to be kept in the dark about this.
I shouldn't even respond to such a disingenuous and desparate comment.

did. During the Democratic National Convention, I saw a bunch of pictures and videos on Twitter of how the anti-Hillary people were being mistreated and censored. And lo and behold, very little of the content from those pictures and videos made its way to reports from the mainstream media.
Can you demonstrate causation? If not, you're spewing non sequitur nonsense.

Blocking Bernie supporters from the view of mainstream media's cameras. White noise machines to try to cancel out the chants of dissenters. Bernie supporters being kicked out and being put behind a wall outside. A Craigslist ad for hiring "actors" to "cheer and show their support for Hillary."
Half of what you've listed is unsubstantiated nonsense. A simple check on Snopes for most of this would have stopped you from embarrassing yourself. You're so emotionally invested in this particular narrative that you're not even bothering to fact-check anything that you think supports it.

Relatively small? Volumetrically, sure, but in potential for devastation? Hardly. And where do you get the idea that it's easily contained? Because we put it in a container that's rated for less than one half-life of the substance when it takes about ten for it to become inert? Because we store the container underground where it hopefully won't fall victim to earthquakes and other natural disasters or terrorists?
The EPA has rules that require a nuclear waste storage facility, such as Yucca Mountain, to be able to withstand the effects of hypothetical earthquakes. It's really not that much waste to manage, it's not that difficult to manage, the environmental effect of it pales in comparison to the negative environmental effect of things like the construction of solar panels, and the nuclear waste will very likely have a use in the future.

When looked at objectively, nuclear energy is a very viable source of green energy that has the potential to produce great amounts of energy with very little downside. Most of the people I've talked to about the issue, yourself included, seem to be against it because it feels bad or feels dangerous, but these kinds of decisions aren't based on arbitrary feelings; they're based on facts.

Putting aside our sharp disagreements on economics I must ask this.

Assuming I am like you and support a mixed capitalist system (rather than anarcho capitalism or socialism) with sensible government regulations because without them it would be awful. Under that system wouldn't you argue that it is a sensible regulation to require companies that use GMO to label them? On the company's side it is not that hard to comply to and on the consumer's side it is something they should know about even if it is not harmful. Most industrial nations and the EU require them. Plus I do not feel that GMOs are bad personally but requiring them to be labeled =/= thinking they are bad since you could argue there is a right to know what is in the products.
In principle, I don't mind the idea of mandatory labeling. However, in practice, since there's no reason to think GMOs are any worse for a person than their non-GMO counterparts, and since the labeling realistically creates an undue burden on the GMO manufacturers due to the anti-GMO propaganda, I can't support it. I think the state has a vested interest in incentivizing the use of GMOs.

Because of how I view it in principle, the issue of labeling isn't one I'm particularly passionate about. What I am passionate about is stopping the spread of all this misinformation and anti-GMO propaganda.

lets look at some recent examples

It doesnt exactly take a brain surgeon to know mass media is manipulating people's thought's and actions, and it not just the huff post, pretty much all major news outlets

another one where pbs censored jill steins interview that were comments against clinton
https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/770076410882949124

cnn removing part of trumps tweet
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016...crubbing-crooked-moniker-to-describe-hillary/

yet another but more extreme example of cnn censoring
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/cnn-edits-out-milwaukee-victims-sister-sherelle-sm/


Govt control of media censorship isnt new by any means but this by the far the worst anyone has seen (at least in the usa)
Turn on any news channel or vist their website and you will most likely find pro-clinton news, and negative trump news, most of which are made up and claimed as "internal sources" but its the equivalent of "CNN told CNN".
Even just recently trump said he would release his media records if clinton would too (because a certain media outlet called him out on his health trying to downplay and coverup clinton's health reports) mass media went full damage control yet again and covered it up and we get trash like this instead http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-mental-health-mika-brzezinski-227492
This doesn't demonstrate any sort of government or Democrat-controlled media. For some of these, you've highlighted some poor decision-making on the part of certain media outlets (CNN is often times an idiotic news outlet). For others, you've highlighted perfectly rational decisions. Trump and his campaign say and do so many controversial things that there's obviously going to be a perceived bias in coverage. Just because a particular candidate is more outlandish than the other and gets negative news coverage because of it doesn't mean the media is biased. In fact, one could argue a bias against Clinton when there are misguided attempts to equalize negative coverage.
 

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I suggest you research how most GMOs actually work.
I suggest that you spend the rest of your day reading through Vani Hari's articles on foodbabe.com.
First, you make a quip that I respond to everything. Now you're saying I ignore things? Which is it? Because I'm pretty sure I've directly responded to each fact that I've been presented.
You do both. You do respond to everything, and in each response, you make it clear that you are completely oblivious to the facts that are presented to you.
I shouldn't even respond to such a disingenuous and desparate comment.
At that point, you had not yet offered an explanation for your anti-consumer position, and unless you have financial ties with Monsanto and company, I could not even begin to imagine why you would want people to be left in the dark.
In principle, I don't mind the idea of mandatory labeling.
Yet, you said the other day that you did not support it...

I recommend making up your mind.
Can you demonstrate causation? If not, you're spewing non sequitur nonsense.
Half of what you've listed is unsubstantiated nonsense. A simple check on Snopes for most of this would have stopped you from embarrassing yourself. You're so emotionally invested in this particular narrative that you're not even bothering to fact-check anything that you think supports it.
Google is your friend. I can demonstrate causation, but there are way too many tweets about it for me to even know where to begin, and there are other things that I would rather work on today.
 

Lacius

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I suggest that you spend the rest of your day reading through Vani Hari's articles on foodbabe.com.
Not exactly scholarly and unbiased. From Wikipedia:
Hari's ideas on food safety have been criticized by scientists as pseudoscience and chemophobia, and others have drawn attention to her apparent financial interest through promotion and marketing of natural foods.
I'm glad you brought her up, because she fully encapsulates the anti-GMO, anti-vaccination, chemophobic, and generally anti-science view that I'm arguing against.

You do both. You do respond to everything, and in each response, you make it clear that you are completely oblivious to the facts that are presented to you.
Just because you disagree doesn't mean I'm oblivious to the facts. Another option is that I'm right.

At that point, you had not yet offered an explanation for your anti-consumer position, and unless you have financial ties with Monsanto and company, I could not even begin to imagine why you would want people to be left in the dark.
I more than adequately explained my views on GMOs as a safe and highly beneficial product. It doesn't take someone with financial ties to Monsanto to acknowledge this. When you've bought into a narrative of demonization, I can't be surprised that you would jump from A to C and baselessly lump me into the group of people you consider the bad guys. I was wrong to say you were being disingenuous and desperate before, and I apologize. That's actually how you make sense of the world, and I'm not sure which is worse.

Yet, you said the other day that you did not support it...
I don't support it.

I recommend making up your mind.
If you're not going to read nor include what immediately followed, don't bother responding to my posts.

Google is your friend. I can demonstrate causation, but there are way too many tweets about it for me to even know where to begin, and there are other things that I would rather work on today.
Forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.
 
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Not exactly scholarly and unbiased. From Wikipedia:
I'm glad you brought her up, because she fully encapsulates the anti-GMO, anti-vaccination, chemophobic, and generally anti-science view that I'm arguing against.
You need to realize that there is a good portion of the people who say that she is biased who have financial ties with the food and bioengineering industries. Of course they will try to discredit her and anyone who poses a threat to their business.
Just because you disagree doesn't mean I'm oblivious to the facts. Another option is that I'm right.
Then why do you keep posting so much misinformation?
If you're not going to read nor include what immediately followed, don't bother responding to my posts.
I did read what immediately followed. And it appeared to contradict your other statement.
Forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.
You do not need to take my word for it. Take the words of the thousands of people who documented what happened.
 
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@Lacius '_>'
You're trying so hard.
Sure, even if you don't consider her a criminal, you can't deny that she hasn't done a lot of shady shit in the past.

Whatever, if you want someone as shady as Hillary to become president, be my guest.
Most of the shady shit I'm aware of is just that: shit. Forgive me if I don't buy into the unsubstantiated meme that Clinton is somehow corrupt. Republicans have been working on that one for decades.

You need to realize that there is a good portion of the people who say that she is biased who have financial ties with the food and bioengineering industries. Of course they will try to discredit her and anyone who poses a threat to their business.
Potential biases and financial ties aside, she's an anti-science whackjob for the reasons I listed above.

Then why do you keep posting so much misinformation?
If you're going to argue that I'm posting misinformation, you're going to have to do more than merely assert it.

I did read what immediately followed. And it appeared to contradict your other statement.
I was very clear that I was against mandatory GMO labeling each time I commented on the issue. I'm sorry if my words confused you, but I didn't contradict myself. I would support mandatory labeling on principle, but as I already explained, how mandatory labeling would work in practice is enough for me to be against it.

You do not need to take my word for it. Take the words of the thousands of people who documented what happened.
If you are going to argue that something is the case, it is up to you to show that it's true. If you're going to pull a Giuliani and just say, "Look on the internet," then there's nothing for us to discuss here.
 
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grafate

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I'd vote for Trump.
Why?
Cause fuck you that's why!
I want to see how badly he can fuck up an entire country.
Is he worse then Bush?
You will see that in the next episode of "4 years of Presidency!"

Osama, I mean Obama, is the worse. Our country don't need another 4 year term with Clinton continuing Obama's policies.
 

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she's an anti-science whackjob for the reasons I listed above.
she fully encapsulates the anti-GMO, anti-vaccination, chemophobic, and generally anti-science view
Except that you did not even list any reasons. You just said that she fits into your stereotype that you have. (your "generally anti-science view" of her, as you put it)
If you're going to argue that I'm posting misinformation, you're going to have to do more than merely assert it.
I have given you proof or you spreading misinformation many times, and so have other users. Read just about every single post where someone quotes you and replies to you.

Here is a shining example of you passing off an opinion as if it were a fact, freshly copied and pasted from the beginning of this reply:
she's an anti-science whackjob for the reasons I listed above.
she fully encapsulates the anti-GMO, anti-vaccination, chemophobic, and generally anti-science view
Yes, stereotypes are always considered facts...:rofl2:
If you are going to argue that something is the case, it is up to you to show that it's true.
Finally, something that I agree with!

If you are going to argue that I am wrong, it is up to you to present to me some independent, unbiased sources that prove that what I said is not the case.
 
Last edited by I pwned U!, , Reason: I added an ironclad example of misinformation being spread.

Supster131

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Most of the shady shit I'm aware of is just that: shit. Forgive me if I don't buy into the unsubstantiated meme that Clinton is somehow corrupt. Republicans have been working on that one for decades.
If you wanna be in denial, be my guest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'll end my discussion here since there's no point in arguing.
Talking to Hillary supporters is like trying to play Chess with a pigeon, they'll never listen.

Like I already stated, both Trump and Hillary suck, it just depends on who's less worse.
This is the only reason I prefer Trump, and I'm fucking Mexican.

This thread's gonna go downhill, if it hasn't already.
 

Lacius

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Except that you did not even list any reasons. You just said that she fits into your stereotype that you have. (your "generally anti-science view" of her, as you put it)
I listed very specific examples of how she's anti-science. Sorry that wasn't good enough for you. If you want me to be even more specific, here's one of her many anti-vaccination articles:
http://foodbabe.com/2011/10/04/should-i-get-the-flu-shot/

If you wanna be in denial, be my guest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'll end my discussion here since there's no point in arguing.
Talking to Hillary supporters is like trying to play Chess with a pigeon, they'll never listen.
I'm all ears. The problem is you're making blanket statements about how she is corrupt without articulating any reason to think so. How am I supposed to respond to that other than to say, "No she's not"?
 

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here's one of her many anti-vaccination articles:
An article that you did not even bother to read through to the end, because otherwise, you would have noticed this:
I am not “anti-vaccination”, I choose not to take the flu shot for the ingredients they contain as stated above.
She supports real vaccinations, not the chemical filled pseudo-vaccinations that flu shots are.
 
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Lacius

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An article that you did not even bother to read through to the end, otherwise, you would have noticed this:
Saying she's not anti-vaccination doesn't mean her post is not anti-vaccination, and it doesn't mean she's not anti-vaccination. She is.

She supports real vaccinations, not the chemical filled pseudo-vaccinations that flu shots are.
And there's the chemophobia, by definition.
 
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Saying she's not anti-vaccination doesn't mean her post is not anti-vaccination, and it doesn't mean she's not anti-vaccination. She is.
Also from her article:
Why do I have to get a Flu Shot every year? Aren’t vaccines suppose to immunize you for life? They have to continuously give you a flu shot, because it is not a real vaccine. Let’s say for instance, you get a vaccine for another virus like Hepatitis A or B – you are immunized for life. Why isn’t this the case with the flu vaccine? Because the scientists have not developed a real vaccine for the flu and are continuously guessing on how to come up with a new chemical formula that could be effective.

Research has shown that it takes close to a full year to develop an effective vaccine against a virus – however, in developing the flu shot – scientists spend less than 4 months producing it so they can get it out for production before flu season starts. They don’t have time to thoroughly test it or judge it’s reactions in the human body. They take a chance on the symptoms it causes and that it might work – are you willing to take this chance too?
Essentially, she is saying that flu shots are not technically vaccines, and she lists a bunch of specific differences between these two different things.
 
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