Young Republican's Racist Texts Leak

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1019 children died in traffic accidents in 2023 in the U.S., 3 per day on average. 442 a day are injured. We could lower this number by outlawing private motor vehicle ownership and switching entirely to well-regulated public transport - confiscate the cars, replace them with buses and trains. We don’t do that because travelling freely trumps the risk of road fatalities, and that’s not even an enumerated right - there are no cars mentioned in the Constitution. A potentially beneficial outcome is not necessarily palatabe when the cost is freedom. This is not an indication that we “don’t care about the children”, or the 40,901 fatalities in 2023 in general, we just accept that road fatalities are an unavoidable consequence which we can only partially mitigate with increased safety standards. There’s a lot of things we could stop doing which would result in more safety, but we refrain from extreme measures because liberty is more important than safety.
Thats a long detailed point to which you already know what the rebuttal will be. Cars are some of the most regulated things in the world. We only get them after a certain age. You have to follow ALL the rules of the road or else you can lose your ability to use one. When they noticed that seatbelts save lives, they made you wear them by law. The government has strict regulations on how the car is made to increase crash safety. Police patrol roads to make sure people aren't using the cars under the influence of alcohol. Roads have been made to increase safety. If a new technology comes out which makes the car even safer, it will be required by law to be included in every single car.

So no, your premise that cars kill people and we allow them, therefore guns are fine to do the same is horribly flawed. Guns are inherently there to hurt someone, not incidentally, like cars. The world does it's best to reduce car deaths at every chance. Gun safety measures are resisted at every chance.

The people who love guns and don't want more safety are petulant children that don't want how they play with their toys changed. Nothing more.
 
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1019 children died in traffic accidents in 2023 in the U.S., 3 per day on average. 442 a day are injured. We could lower this number by outlawing private motor vehicle ownership and switching entirely to well-regulated public transport - confiscate the cars, replace them with buses and trains. We don’t do that because travelling freely trumps the risk of road fatalities, and that’s not even an enumerated right - there are no cars mentioned in the Constitution. A potentially beneficial outcome is not necessarily palatabe when the cost is freedom. This is not an indication that we “don’t care about the children”, or the 40,901 fatalities in 2023 in general, we just accept that road fatalities are an unavoidable consequence which we can only partially mitigate with increased safety standards. There’s a lot of things we could stop doing which would result in more safety, but we refrain from extreme measures because liberty is more important than safety.
Whataboutism the post
 
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In other words, you aren't able to prove it, only making an assumption. That is not evidence.
Whataboutism the post
It’s called an analogy. “Thing X causes death, including deaths of children. Should we get rid of thing X? I don’t know, do the pros outweigh the cons?” - very simple concept. Automobiles in private hands became indispensable for daily commutes and commerce. Does it cause deaths on the roads? Yes. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Will we do something about it? Yes, we’ll tweak legislation to ensure the vehicles and roads are as safe as they can be. Are we going to ban automobiles to protect people? No, not in the foreseeable future anyway.
Thats a long detailed point to which you already know what the rebuttal will be. Cars are some of the most regulated things in the world. We only get them after a certain age. You have to follow ALL the rules of the road or else you can lose your ability to use one. When they noticed that seatbelts save lives, they made you wear them by law. The government has strict regulations on how the car is made to increase crash safety. Police patrol roads to make sure people aren't using the cars under the influence of alcohol. Roads have been made to increase safety. If a new technology comes out which makes the car even safer, it will be required by law to be included in every single car.

So no, your premise that cars kill people and we allow them, therefore guns are fine to do the same is horribly flawed. Guns are inherently there to hurt someone, not incidentally, like cars. The world does it's best to reduce car deaths at every chance. Gun safety measures are resisted at every chance.

The people who love guns and don't want more safety are petulant children that don't want how they play with their toys changed. Nothing more.
You can walk into a dealership and buy any car you like at any time, there is no license required for vehicle ownership. Nobody is going to run a background check on you at the lot. You might be thinking of a license to operate a motor vehicle on a public road. Anyone who misled you into thinking that you need a license to buy a car owes you an apology, and there are plenty of drivers on the road with an invalid license, a suspended license or no license at all. Statistics indicate that 9% of motorists on U.S. roads are not licensed to drive, so nearly 1 in 10. This is not accounting for the estimated 11 million drivers with suspended licenses since they’re technically licensed, just not permitted to drive temporarily.

Guns are *orders of magnitude* more regulated than cars are, both in terms of their specification *and* in terms of who gets to purchase them. Forget about seatbelts, the ATF will be on your case if your stock is a little too short, or too long, or the wrong shape. Besides, there’s a huge laundry list of conditions that are disqualifying for a potential buyer before they even open their wallet, including (but not limited to) pending/current convictions, history of violence, mental health or substance abuse, or just ticking the wrong box on a form. The myth of walking into a store with a wad of cash and leaving with a weapon is just that - a myth. It’s not GTA. The “purpose” of the item is immaterial, and even if it was relevant, it’s presumptuous of you to assume that people buy guns “to hurt someone”. The opposite is true - guns are often bought for purposes other than self-defense. Even those that *are* bought for self-defense are purchased with the hope that one will never have to use them to shoot another human. If you tell a gun dealer that you’re buying a pistol “to hurt someone”, you’re not getting that pistol, that’s the wrong answer.
 
One thing i gotta hand to them: they are all lookers with charm and charisma .i mean the double chin on N word boy is majestic.Most should cosplay.
 
It’s called an analogy. “Thing X causes death, including deaths of children. Should we get rid of thing X? I don’t know, do the pros outweigh the cons?” - very simple concept. Automobiles in private hands became indispensable for daily commutes and commerce. Does it cause deaths on the roads? Yes. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Will we do something about it? Yes, we’ll tweak legislation to ensure the vehicles and roads are as safe as they can be. Are we going to ban automobiles to protect people? No, not in the foreseeable future anyway.

Genuine question, just wanna understand your perspective a little more:

What do you think would be the appropriate way forward for the US regarding guns?

What do you make out of mass-shootings? Do you think it's over-exaggerated or the news, more of a consequence of poor mental health, gang violence, cartel influence, etc etc?

Regardless of individual preference and freedoms, do you think the right to bear arms is necessary even with the evil it may bring in the hands of some individuals?

Even in self-defense, the purpose of a gun is very simple: To injure someone, be it to kill or not

Knifes can cut meat, cars move you to places, but guns can really only have the purpose of injuring in the end
 
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Genuinely question, just wanna understand your perspective a little more:

What do you think would be the appropriate way forward for the US regarding guns?

What do you make out of mass-shootings? Do you think it's over-exaggerated or the news, more of a consequence of poor mental health, gang violence, cartel influence, etc etc?

Regardless of individual preference and freedoms, do you think the right to bear arms is necessary even with the evil it may bring in the hands of some individuals?
I think guns are tools, just like a kitchen knife is a tool, a hammer is a tool, a car is, in a manner of speaking, a tool. It’s a thing humans use for various purposes, and they’re not morally coded one way or the other. I see the existence of knives in people‘a kitchens as good for the most part - people need tools for food preparation. As such, I reluctantly accept the cost of them being in people’s hands - the occasional stabbing. I think hammers are good also - people need construction tools of all sorts to build and to repair their goods and homes. As such, I accept that sometimes someone will get clobbered over the head with a hammer. I think cars are great - they enable unprecedented freedom of movement. They’re a freedom multiplier, by which I mean a person can travel faster, further and engage in commerce more effectively. With all these things being true, I accept that there will be some fatalities on the roads. Makes sense so far, yes?

Guns are no different. I believe that one has the right to hunt, to protect their property, to enjoy sporting events or even just to collect firearms. There is no greater force equaliser than a gun - they’re very dangerous, but they are also very useful tools. If firearms in private hands prevent burglaries, home invasions and assaults of all-sorts, if they kill vermin on fields, if they put wild game on the tables of hunters or even if they’re just *fun* at the range, they are good, and should be permitted. Yes, some people will die as a result, just like in all the other cases. That’s unfortunate, but that’s the cost of freedom. I think the right to bear arms is fundamental and necessary, and it is the rest of the world that should emulate the United States, not the other way around. Even in the absolute extreme scenario of defense against a foreign enemy I think we can agree that Ukrainians would’ve been better off with gun rights than without. If we can’t, the Ukrainian government does, because they granted their citizens the right to bear arms moments before the invasion started.

Can something be done to prevent mass shootings? Maybe. It’s a bit of a different discussion - there are always some measures that can be introduced or tweaked to make both weapons and carrying safer. I think firearms dealers could have better access to their customer’s histories, at least upon verified request to purchase, but HIPPA might be in the way. You’re asking a very open-ended question about what amounts to an aside in a discussion about a chat leak.
 
Can something be done to prevent mass shootings? Maybe. It’s a bit of a different discussion - there are always some measures that can be introduced or tweaked to make both weapons and carrying safer. I think firearms dealers could have better access to their customer’s histories, at least upon verified request to purchase, but HIPPA might be in the way. You’re asking a very open-ended question about what amounts to an aside in a discussion about a chat leak.

Guess that's a discussion for another thread then

Thank you for answering tho
 
A laughable one at that
You’re not required to agree with me, but you are expected to know that your ability to bear arms is an enumerated constitutional right whereas your ability to drive is not and it can be revoked at any time by the state. In fact, I’d argue rightfully so because you come across hundreds of motor vehicles every single day wheras you rarely come across guns at all, so the need to both legislate and to effectively enforce traffic laws is much greater.
 
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You’re not required to agree with me, but you are expected to know that your ability to bear arms is an enumerated constitutional right whereas your ability to drive is not and it can be revoked at any time by the state. In fact, I’d argue rightfully so because you come across hundreds of motor vehicles every single day wheras you rarely come across guns at all, so the need to both legislate and to effectively enforce traffic laws is much greater.
lmao wow dude. Poor attempt at deflecting the issues here.

Furthermore
1019 children died in traffic accidents in 2023 in the U.S., 3 per day on average.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/guns-remain-leading-cause-of-death-for-children-and-teens

Specifically: "There were 2,526 gun deaths in 2022 among 1- to 17-year-olds, averaging to nearly 7 per day."

So your analogy continues to be laughable given how nonequivalent it is, along with your (as a foreigner no less who doesn't live in a country with this epidemic) outdated and frankly bizarre reverence for a document created by kid diddling slave owners who couldn't fathom the kind of firearms we have today.
 
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/guns-remain-leading-cause-of-death-for-children-and-teens

Specifically: "There were 2,526 gun deaths in 2022 among 1- to 17-year-olds, averaging to nearly 7 per day."

So your analogy continues to be laughable given how nonequivalent it is, along with your (as a foreigner no less who doesn't live in a country with this epidemic) outdated and frankly bizarre reverence for a document created by kid diddling slave owners who couldn't fathom the kind of firearms we have today.
You’re conveniently forgetting to mention that 100,000+ children are injured in traffic accidents every year, often becoming disabled at a young age as a result. We’re also ignoring all the adult victims which obviously dwarf child victims since there’s more adults on the road (d’uh), and the fact that the child fatalities figure I provided cuts off at age 13, but let’s play your game for a moment, just for fun.

If you look at the numbers, over half of those deaths are suicides (per your own report!) - it seems to me that the problem there is people choosing to kill themselves, the method by which they do it is immaterial. If they didn’t shoot themselves, they’d do it another way, so the problem you’d want to address is suicidal ideation, especially among teens, and mental health in general.

That, and for some inexplicable reason, black teens are 18 times more likely to be victimised compared to their white peers (per your own report!) - why is that? Is it at all possible that perhaps it’s not the guns that are the problem per se, but rather that there are *some very specific areas* afflicted by increased levels of violence which appear to be statistically more dangerous and thus in dire need of better policing and widespread cultural change?

Does the fact that the suicide rate (per your own report!) among black teens specifically rose by a staggering 24%, surpassing white teens for the first time, bother you at all and is it indicative of some deep issues that are not present, or present to a lesser extent, in other groups?

Did something happen within the last, say, 5 years that could possibly make young people want to kill themselves more so than usual? Perhaps some kind of global pandemic and a resulting financial crisis that may spoil to mood a smidge? Does that make sense, considering gun deaths surpassed other causes of death three times in a row now compared to previous years? I think it does, considering the report mentions it explicitly as one of the major causes.

These are the number you’ve provided, and there are some big statistical red flags that would point you to things that might be worth addressing.

I also don’t know why you assume the founders “couldn’t fathom” that we’ll have better weapons in the future - they lived in an age of rapid technological progress. Are you under the impression that the founders were running around exclusively with single-shot muskets? Because they weren’t - semi-automatic weapons have already existed at the time of founding. “Assault weapons” were available long before the second amendment was put to paper.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/riac-blog/assault-weapons-before-the-second-amendment

I quote,
Variants of the Lorenzoni repeating system, an invention from 1688, were one of several types of rapid-fire guns being produced in 1791. One of the finest and rarest examples is the Chelembrom magazine repeating flintlock. Thought to be the creation of a French gunmaker working in India, few of these innovative and complex Chelembrom guns survive to the present day.

Though employed primarily as hunting weapons, at least one of these repeaters may have been used on the battlefield. As noted by the Royal Collection Trust in the United Kingdom, at least one of these flintlock magazine guns was acquired by the nemesis of Colonial America, King George III himself.

Carrying 20 rounds, the Chelembron magazine-fed repeaters are flintlock predecessors to the famous Henry repeating rifle but predates the Henry by nearly 200 years. In Royal Sporting Guns at Windsor, the complicated operation of this system is described.
What exactly couldn’t they imagine, high capacity repeating rifles that already existed? If the rifle above was made today, it would be illegal to sell or own in California due to their 10-round magazine capacity limit. Heck, at the time of founding you could own *explosives and cannons* - things that today would be classed as destructive devices that are not available to the public at large. In fact, at the time of founding, the public owned *better* and *more technologically advanced* weapons than the standing military did, for the simple reason that they were difficult to manufacture, expensive and not necessarily practical on the battlefield on account of logistics. The public was allowed to own all sorts of exotic weaponry based on complicated mechanisms (repeaters included), it was the soldiers that used cheap, easy to manufacture and “basic” weapons. The situation is very much reversed today.

For the record, I’m very passionate about firearms history, so I know a fair bit about the subject at hand. My location is irrelevant, I’m entitled to an opinion all the same.
 
That's not entirely true either. Easy access makes for a quick result
That’s still not the gun’s fault regardless. In the absence of a gun you just have a person who wants to die and can’t. Great result. You really “fixed” the problem.
 
Then you take out anyone who advocates for things that are objectively morally reprehensible. The subjective you can debate on, but most times you need to agree to disagree on those.

What standard are you appealing to when you claim that there are objectively morally reprehensible things? If morality is determined by an adaptive human society, as you have previously asserted below, then morality is ultimately dependent upon societal preferences. Objective morality, by definition, is universal and independent of preferences determined by the context of culture, time, and geographical location.

We've adapted to the times and found ourselves in a situation where we need to do the lest amount of harm to each other while attempting to do as much good as possible.

You also seem to be asserting that there are both objective moral standards and subjective moral standards. This poses an issue because you must now appeal to a standard yet more authoritative that is used to discern objective morality and subjective morality. What is this higher standard, and how do you justify its authority in a framework where morality is grounded in society adapting to the times?
 
That’s still not the gun’s fault regardless. In the absence of a gun you just have a person who wants to die and can’t. Great result. You really “fixed” the problem.
If the gun shouldn't be in the hands of the suicidal individual in the first place (like the owner isn't properly securing it) that's another layer on the issue.

Mental health itself is another issue and it's one side that shut down the government over this in general as well.

Your continued attempts to deflect or diverge from the topic at hand (your side and it's ever growing Nazi problem) isn't going to work here.
 
If the gun shouldn't be in the hands of the suicidal individual in the first place (like the owner isn't properly securing it) that's another layer on the issue.

Mental health itself is another issue and it's one side that shut down the government over this in general as well.

Your continued attempts to deflect or diverge from the topic at hand (your side and it's ever growing Nazi problem) isn't going to work here.
I’m responding to the aside regarding firearms, I’m not particularly interested in a bunch of “young Republicans” using no-no words in some chat room at a rate significantly lower than the average COD lobby. The outrage is fake and intended to cause infighting, I already said as much. Besides, I’m not interested in what Republicans do because I’m not a Republican (d’uh). Some of our policy prescriptions align, but that’s about it. In any case, if *one* person kills themselves by jumping off a bridge instead of blowing their brains out as a result of whatever imaginary solution you have in mind, it would be a consequence of you not addressing the root cause and choosing to blame the tool instead. It’s counterproductive and intellectually slovenly. That same person could’ve been helped more adequately if you did address the root causes, but you chose not to because it’s hard. The suicide angle is more nuanced than you claim - you could ensure that a suicidal person cannot kill themselves by locking them up in a cage, but that solution is at odds with the notion of liberty and as such unpalatable. At the end of the day, some people will always commit suicide, no matter what you do about it, so the best you *can* do is try to reduce that number in ways that don’t affect people with no suicidal tendencies in a negative way.
 
I’m not particularly interested in a bunch of “young Republicans” using no-no words
We know. You've demonstrated a pattern of putting your head in the sand when it comes to the increasing racism and bigotry in your political affiliation.

if you did address the root causes, but you chose not to because it’s hard.
We're trying to but once again, the shutdown and the general anti science stance we get with your side...
 

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