Right now I'm debating with a Jehovah's Witness on Facebook about a VERY disturbing scripture I read from their bible:
http://www.watchtower.org/bible/2ki/chapter_002.htm
(verses 23 and 24)
The JW is one of my mom's friends, and my mom is also a JW. I hope she doesn't flip out at me when I go home for winter break (which she probably will), but whatever.
Here's the debate so far. How can she possibly defend THIS?
And, yes, I think she's mostly quoting from JW literature. (aka propaganda, IMO)
http://www.watchtower.org/bible/2ki/chapter_002.htm
(verses 23 and 24)
The JW is one of my mom's friends, and my mom is also a JW. I hope she doesn't flip out at me when I go home for winter break (which she probably will), but whatever.
Here's the debate so far. How can she possibly defend THIS?
Chris Patterson
2 Kings 2:23-24 Does that seem like a loving god? o.0
Blu Ballou
HARASSING, teasing, and insulting others are the cruel pastimes of many young ones. Even in Bible times, some youths manifested a mean streak. For example, a group of young boys once harassed the prophet Elisha. Showing contempt for his office, the youths disrespectfully cried out: “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!†(2Kings 2:23-25) Today, many youths are similarly inclined to make insulting, hurtful remarks about others.
Blu Ballou
(2 Kings 2:23-24) And he proceeded to go up from there to Beth′el. As he was going up on the way, there were small boys that came out from the city and began to jeer him and that kept saying to him: “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!†24Finally he turned behind him and saw them and called down evil upon them in the name of Jehovah. Then two she-bears came out from the woods and went tearing to pieces forty-two children of their number.
Chris Patterson
kids were making fun of an adult and calling him old. It's what kids do. So why did Jehovah kill 42 of them with BEARS? o.0
Blu Ballou
Jehovah tolerates no disrespect for his official servants. When the delinquents mocked Elisha as the prophet of Jehovah, He brought swift recompense.
to teach these young people and their parents proper respect for Jehovah... See More’s prophet, Elisha called down evil upon the jeering mob in the name of the God of Elijah. It was a test of his prophetship. Jehovah manifested his approval of Elisha by causing two she-bears to come out of the nearby woods and to tear to pieces 42 of them
Such Syrian brown bears could be ferocious when surprised or when their cubs seemed threatened. (2Samuel 17:8; Proverbs 17:12; 28:15) God used them to execute divine justice against those who grossly despised his representative and thus despised Jehovah himself.
Chris Patterson
"As he was going up on the way, there were SMALL BOYS that came out from the city..." How could they know he was a prophet? Also, I couldn't find anything in that chapter referring to anyone knowingly disrespecting Elisha because he was a prophet... (I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you, mom, or anyone, I just find this very disturbing. It doesn't make Jehovah look loving OR forgiving.)
Blu Ballou
The main reason for this mocking of Elisha appears to be that a bald man was wearing Elijah’s official garment. The children recognized Elisha as Jehovah’s representative and simply did not want him around. They told him to “go up,†that is, keep going up to Bethel or be taken up as Elijah had been. The children evidently reflected the antagonistic attitude of their parents. How vital that parents teach their children to respect God’s representatives!
Blu Ballou
Elisha was traveling up from Jericho toward Bethel, so he was in this area, some ten miles [16km] south of Shiloh. What reception would he receive from the people of Bethel, which had become a center for the worship of a golden calf? Evidently the adults were antagonistic toward Jehovah’s prophet, and their attitude seems to have rubbed off on their offspring.
Second Kings 2:23,24 tells us that a band of youths jeered God’s prophet: “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!†In response, Elisha “called down evil upon them in the name of Jehovah. Then two she-bears came out from the woods and went tearing to pieces forty-two children of their number.†Such Syrian brown bears could be ferocious when surprised or when their cubs seemed threatened. God used them to execute divine justice against those who grossly despised his representative and thus despised Jehovah himself.
That a child might meet such wildlife in the hills around Shiloh should help us to appreciate more the faith that Samuel’s parents showed in bringing him to serve at the tabernacle.
Another true worshiper had earlier shown similar faith and devotion—Judge Jephthah. He resided in the hill country of Gilead on the east side of the Jordan. Zealous for Jehovah against the enemy Ammonites, Jephthah vowed that the first of his house coming out to meet him would be sacrificed to Jehovah. His virgin daughter proved to be that one. So he brought his only child to God’s sanctuary at Shiloh, where she lived and served faithfully for years.—Judges 11:30-40.
The faithful devotion that Samuel and Jephthah’s daughter manifested in the area of Shiloh certainly is a fine contrast to the negative example of the 42 delinquents who mocked Jehovah’s prophet in this same region.—Compare 1Corinthians 10:6,11.
Chris Patterson
Here's the King James and NIV versions:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...version=NIV;KJV
KJ, which is (supposedly) mostly a direct translation from laten (albeit removing Jehovah's name) says LITTLE CHILDREN, not small boys, and in none of these versions does it say anything about their parents, or if they were delinquents.
... See More
And Elisha had been helping the people. I don't read anywhere in this chapter about them disrespecting him. He even cleaned their water.
2 Kings 2:23-24 Does that seem like a loving god? o.0
Blu Ballou
HARASSING, teasing, and insulting others are the cruel pastimes of many young ones. Even in Bible times, some youths manifested a mean streak. For example, a group of young boys once harassed the prophet Elisha. Showing contempt for his office, the youths disrespectfully cried out: “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!†(2Kings 2:23-25) Today, many youths are similarly inclined to make insulting, hurtful remarks about others.
Blu Ballou
(2 Kings 2:23-24) And he proceeded to go up from there to Beth′el. As he was going up on the way, there were small boys that came out from the city and began to jeer him and that kept saying to him: “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!†24Finally he turned behind him and saw them and called down evil upon them in the name of Jehovah. Then two she-bears came out from the woods and went tearing to pieces forty-two children of their number.
Chris Patterson
kids were making fun of an adult and calling him old. It's what kids do. So why did Jehovah kill 42 of them with BEARS? o.0
Blu Ballou
Jehovah tolerates no disrespect for his official servants. When the delinquents mocked Elisha as the prophet of Jehovah, He brought swift recompense.
to teach these young people and their parents proper respect for Jehovah... See More’s prophet, Elisha called down evil upon the jeering mob in the name of the God of Elijah. It was a test of his prophetship. Jehovah manifested his approval of Elisha by causing two she-bears to come out of the nearby woods and to tear to pieces 42 of them
Such Syrian brown bears could be ferocious when surprised or when their cubs seemed threatened. (2Samuel 17:8; Proverbs 17:12; 28:15) God used them to execute divine justice against those who grossly despised his representative and thus despised Jehovah himself.
Chris Patterson
"As he was going up on the way, there were SMALL BOYS that came out from the city..." How could they know he was a prophet? Also, I couldn't find anything in that chapter referring to anyone knowingly disrespecting Elisha because he was a prophet... (I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you, mom, or anyone, I just find this very disturbing. It doesn't make Jehovah look loving OR forgiving.)
Blu Ballou
The main reason for this mocking of Elisha appears to be that a bald man was wearing Elijah’s official garment. The children recognized Elisha as Jehovah’s representative and simply did not want him around. They told him to “go up,†that is, keep going up to Bethel or be taken up as Elijah had been. The children evidently reflected the antagonistic attitude of their parents. How vital that parents teach their children to respect God’s representatives!
Blu Ballou
Elisha was traveling up from Jericho toward Bethel, so he was in this area, some ten miles [16km] south of Shiloh. What reception would he receive from the people of Bethel, which had become a center for the worship of a golden calf? Evidently the adults were antagonistic toward Jehovah’s prophet, and their attitude seems to have rubbed off on their offspring.
Second Kings 2:23,24 tells us that a band of youths jeered God’s prophet: “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!†In response, Elisha “called down evil upon them in the name of Jehovah. Then two she-bears came out from the woods and went tearing to pieces forty-two children of their number.†Such Syrian brown bears could be ferocious when surprised or when their cubs seemed threatened. God used them to execute divine justice against those who grossly despised his representative and thus despised Jehovah himself.
That a child might meet such wildlife in the hills around Shiloh should help us to appreciate more the faith that Samuel’s parents showed in bringing him to serve at the tabernacle.
Another true worshiper had earlier shown similar faith and devotion—Judge Jephthah. He resided in the hill country of Gilead on the east side of the Jordan. Zealous for Jehovah against the enemy Ammonites, Jephthah vowed that the first of his house coming out to meet him would be sacrificed to Jehovah. His virgin daughter proved to be that one. So he brought his only child to God’s sanctuary at Shiloh, where she lived and served faithfully for years.—Judges 11:30-40.
The faithful devotion that Samuel and Jephthah’s daughter manifested in the area of Shiloh certainly is a fine contrast to the negative example of the 42 delinquents who mocked Jehovah’s prophet in this same region.—Compare 1Corinthians 10:6,11.
Chris Patterson
Here's the King James and NIV versions:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...version=NIV;KJV
KJ, which is (supposedly) mostly a direct translation from laten (albeit removing Jehovah's name) says LITTLE CHILDREN, not small boys, and in none of these versions does it say anything about their parents, or if they were delinquents.
... See More
And Elisha had been helping the people. I don't read anywhere in this chapter about them disrespecting him. He even cleaned their water.
And, yes, I think she's mostly quoting from JW literature. (aka propaganda, IMO)
