Hacking Question When will a free XCI Backup Loader be released?

[Dax_Fame]

Ooo! Ooo! Morality games? My go!
*Clears throat*... Why not just buy a game card holder and all the games you want to play, like you're SUPPOSED to do? trollface.jpeg

Okay, serious time. Wasn't ReiNX planning to implement an xci loader? I know that isn't updated too often... But someone may very well be working on one.

I completely see the appeal of using xci and am surprised there's still no alternative loader.

My main reason for thinking one should exist is I'm not down with "Proprietary" ROMs but I don't really have a use personally. My pathetic 256 card serves me well enough to install all my smaller carts and hold my emuMMC

 

[Legend Of Kay]

Copy/pasting an XCI to an HDD is about the same amount of time as installing an NSP over a USB connection. XCI files have no benefit here.

And where did I mention copy and pasting? Please don’t put words in my mouth. What I said was downloading directly to your sd card or external hard drive. Download the xci directly to your external hard drive, when the download is finished unplug it and connect the external to your switch and load the xci. At the absolute most most that would take 1 minute between download completion and then playing the game which is faster then any usb installation would ever be.

Lets break it down even more just so you can understand better:
•we both download the same 14gb game file with the same internet speed
•you’re downloading to the usb install folder on your desktop while I’m downloading to the xci folder on my external hard drive
•for discussions sake lets say your usb install program will be ready to begin installation the moment the download finishes (so you are already being given a boost here to help you) and you click install the moment it finishes. This 14gb game will take 3-5minutes to install at least
•now my download has finished. I unplug my external from my laptop. Walk two steps to my switch dock and plug it in(10-15 seconds at most total to complete both these steps), load the xci menu and click the Game icon (5-30 seconds depending on amount of games on the external) load the game cart image (10~seconds since it’s a large game file) and then start game. Grand total time at maximum is 55seconds. Meanwhile you’re at about 25% usb install time completed.

There is 0 copy and pasting done with the method I’m saying. You can’t beat it by usb installing.

 

[Lacius]

And where did I mention copy and pasting? Please don’t put words in my mouth. What I said was downloading directly to your sd card or external hard drive. Download the xci directly to your external hard drive, when the download is finished unplug it and connect the external to your switch and load the xci. At the absolute most most that would take 1 minute between download completion and then playing the game which is faster then any usb installation would ever be.

Lets break it down even more just so you can understand better:
•we both download the same 14gb game file with the same internet speed
•you’re downloading to the usb install folder on your desktop while I’m downloading to the xci folder on my external hard drive
•for discussions sake lets say your usb install program will be ready to begin installation the moment the download finishes (so you are already being given a boost here to help you) and you click install the moment it finishes. This 14gb game will take 3-5minutes to install at least
•now my download has finished. I unplug my external from my laptop. Walk two steps to my switch dock and plug it in(10-15 seconds at most total to complete both these steps), load the xci menu and click the Game icon (5-30 seconds depending on amount of games on the external) load the game cart image (10~seconds since it’s a large game file) and then start game. Grand total time at maximum is 55seconds. Meanwhile you’re at about 25% usb install time completed.

There is 0 copy and pasting done with the method I’m saying. You can’t beat it by usb installing.

The majority of SX OS users copy/paste XCI files from their computers to their external HDD devices and/or SD cards, which I'm saying is comparable to NSP installation times over a USB connection.

If you're downloading an XCI file directly to an HDD device, then yes, it's going to be faster than installing an NSP over a USB connection by the amount of time it takes to install the NSP file. However, downloading an NSP file directly to the Switch using Tinfoil/HBG takes about the same amount of time as downloading an XCI directly to an HDD device. In fact, downloading and installing an NSP file using HBG is going to be faster than downloading directly to an HDD device if you include the time it takes to unplug the HDD device and connect it to the Switch, but it is not my intention to get nitpicky.

Here's a list of backup methods sorted from most time to least time. This list is not exhaustive, and I'm only talking about XCI loading when I talk about XCI files.

1. Download NSP, paste it to SD, install directly from SD using an NSP installer
2. Download XCI, paste it to HDD or SD
3. Download NSP, install over USB connection
4. Download XCI directly to HDD
5. Download/install NSP directly using Tinfoil and/or HBG.

 

[Legend Of Kay]

The majority of SX OS users copy/paste XCI files from their computers to their external HDD devices and/or SD cards, which I'm saying is comparable to NSP installation times over a USB connection.

If you're downloading an XCI file directly to an HDD device, then yes, it's going to be faster than installing an NSP over a USB connection by the amount of time it takes to install the NSP file. However, downloading an NSP file directly to the Switch using Tinfoil/HBG takes about the same amount of time as downloading an XCI directly to an HDD device. In fact, downloading and installing an NSP file using HBG is going to be faster than downloading directly to an HDD device if you include the time it takes to unplug the HDD device and connect it to the Switch, but it is not my intention to get nitpicky.

Here's a list of backup methods sorted from most time to least time. This list is not exhaustive, and I'm only talking about XCI loading when I talk about XCI files.

1. Download NSP, paste it to SD, install directly from SD using an NSP installer
2. Download XCI, paste it to HDD or SD
3. Download NSP, install over USB connection
4. Download XCI directly to HDD
5. Download/install NSP directly using Tinfoil and/or HBG.

I’m only replying to the bold as they’re the only parts that actually reference my original post.

i never commented on what most users do I commented on which way is the fastest to load the games which my way is the fastest. You deciding how most people load games has no bearing on this discussion.

And tinfoil+hbgshop is a great tool but it still needs to install the file which takes a couple of minutes. Unplugging a external and then plugging into another device takes seconds unless you’ve put your computer and switch at different ends of your massive, massive house. I literally just tested with my laptop and it took me 8 seconds to get external unplugged and then plugged into my switch. 8 seconds. Tinfoil can’t do that.

So no you are wrong once again. Xci directly to HDD and then plugged into the switch is the quickest way.

 

[Lacius]

I’m only replying to the bold as they’re the only parts that actually reference my original post.

i never commented on what most users do I commented on which way is the fastest to load the games which my way is the fastest. You deciding how most people load games has no bearing on this discussion.

And tinfoil+hbgshop is a great tool but it still needs to install the file which takes a couple of minutes. Unplugging a external and then plugging into another device takes seconds unless you’ve put your computer and switch at different ends of your massive, massive house. I literally just tested with my laptop and it took me 8 seconds to get external unplugged and then plugged into my switch. 8 seconds. Tinfoil can’t do that.

So no you are wrong once again. Xci directly to HDD and then plugged into the switch is the quickest way.

No. Downloading and installing an NSP file directly over the internet using HBG takes about the same time as downloading an XCI file directly to an HDD, since it installs the file as it's downloading. The difference between the two methods is probably a matter of seconds, not taking into account the Switch's bottlenecked Wi-Fi download speed vs. an ethernet connection, etc. I am correct when I say they're comparable.

 

[Legend Of Kay]

No. Downloading and installing an NSP file directly over the internet using HBG takes about the same time as downloading an XCI file directly to an HDD, since it installs the file as it's downloading. The difference between the two methods is probably a matter of seconds, not taking into account the Switch's bottlenecked Wi-Fi download speed vs. an ethernet connection, etc. I am correct when I say they're comparable.

You never said comparable you said that method was the quickest while ignoring things things that matter like download speed. You know you can’t refute my points which is why you’re backpedaling hard right now. But I’ll play along with your back-pedal. Yes they are comparable but there is a clear first place which is my method of download direct to HDD then plug into switch. You can download much faster on your Ethernet connected laptop then HBGshop WiFi. It’s simple.

Just be a grownup for once and admit you were wrong.

 

[Homlet]

Imagine wasting hours arguing on a BBcode forum about which method saves a few minutes when transferring files (when you can do something else at the same time anyways)

LMAOing at your lives

 

[Lacius]

You never said comparable

Well, first, I've been saying NSP install times are comparable to pasting XCI files this whole time, so this is far from the first time I've used the word comparable. Second, regarding downloading XCI files to the HDD directly, I said NSP install times over HBG take "about the same amount of time," which is what comparable means.

you said that method was the quickest

If one wants to get nitpicky and take into account the time it takes to eject the HDD, plug it in, etc., NSP install time over HBG is faster than a direct download to an HDD.

while ignoring things things that matter like download speed.

An ethernet connection is obviously faster than a wireless connection. That's not to say my downloads over HBG aren't comparable (or faster) than what it would take to direct-download to an HDD and then move it to the Switch.

You know you can’t refute my points which is why you’re backpedaling hard right now.

I haven't backpedaled once. See above.

You can download much faster on your Ethernet connected laptop then HBGshop WiFi. It’s simple.

First, I acknowledged that in my last post and in this one: Ethernet is inherently faster than wireless. In fact, I'm the one who brought it up, not you. However, the Switch's wireless download speed over HBG is something in the neighborhood of 160 megabits/second (results will vary based on other variables). I don't know where you get your XCI files, but this is comparable to what I get over an ethernet connection when direct-downloading XCI files. In short, the bottleneck inherent to wireless download speeds might not be worth talking about much if we're not hitting it before another bottleneck (e.g. download source, read/write speeds of an HDD, etc.).

We're still left with NSP install times and direct-download to HDD times being comparable, and that's before we're ejecting the HDD, plugging it in, etc. In real-life scenarios, NSP install times over HBG or another online source are likely to be faster in a lot of cases, and this is all ignoring that direct-downloads to an HDD don't occur often.

And if we say XCI direct-downloads are faster, it doesn't really matter. My point is and always has been that they're comparable.

Just be a grownup for once and admit you were wrong.

I don't see an instance where I have been wrong, but I'll happily admit it when I'm wrong. I was wrong about you referring to pasting XCI files, but I think that's about it. I just highlighted a couple of times you were demonstrably wrong; are you going to admit it?

I don't know why I'm receiving so much hate for acknowledging that XCI files have few, if any, benefits over NSP files. We can have civil conversations without accusing each other of not being grown up, etc.

Imagine wasting hours arguing on a BBcode forum about which method saves a few minutes when transferring files (when you can do something else at the same time anyways)

LMAOing at your lives

I was about to jokingly bring up distance between the Switch and computer, one's average walk speed, etc. It's all ridiculous and doesn't really matter with regard to my initial points.

 

[RednaxelaNnamtra]

I want to move it to PM because I don't think the public benefits from a conversation that's going in circles. Asking to move to PM also helps me distinguish between the people who want to have a sincere conversation and the people who have other motives.

I believe my points speak for themselves at this point, and I'm not sure if the public conversation can continue without me just repeating myself, which is a red flag to me that the conversation has reached a natural end. Below is a quick summary of my points from this thread, in case you want to respond to them over PM or have the final word here. Regardless, my public conversation with you is over.

1. People largely don't care about XCI loading since we have NSP backups, which is the primary reason why free XCI loading is unlikely. In other words, the benefit is just not even close to worth the work.
2. XCI files have no significant benefit over NSP files. They are not safer with regard to bricking; in fact, using current XCI loaders, they're less safe than NSP files. They're not faster to install.
3. The only benefit of XCI files that comes close is the ability to load them off a USB device, which is a cheaper form of storage than SD, but that requires sacrificing some or all portability. People generally don't care about the HDD loading, whether it's because of the lack of portability or because it's just not an enticing feature, and this is evidenced in part by the fact that XCI loading by SX OS just isn't worth the price for most people. This isn't circular reasoning, since a willingness or unwillingness to pay a price for something is a great indicator of how much one cares about something. On the other hand, when there wasn't a free CFW that supported NSP backup loading yet, many many of the same people who aren't willing to pay for XCI loading alone were willing to pay the price for backup loading in general.

Copy/pasting an XCI to an HDD is about the same amount of time as installing an NSP over a USB connection. XCI files have no benefit here.

Another advantage xci loading had, and maybe has again in the future, would be the ability to use legit self created backups online.
It was possible to do this for quite some time with sxos (was the only reason I used it), but since 9.x nintendo added another way of authentication for going online.
It didn't get implemented in Sxos yet, and I doubt they will do it, since they would need to decrypt/dump the firmware of the gamecard reader and reverse the way the authentication token is generated, which would only benefit a very small part of their user base.

 

[LyuboA]

Another advantage xci loading had, and maybe has again in the future, would be the ability to use legit self created backups online.
It was possible to do this for quite some time with sxos (was the only reason I used it), but since 9.x nintendo added another way of authentication for going online.
It didn't get implemented in Sxos yet, and I doubt they will do it, since they would need to decrypt/dump the firmware of the gamecard reader and reverse the way the authentication token is generated, which would only benefit a very small part of their user base.

well theres no Money in that so Team X will Never do it and theres other ways going online keeping your sysnand clean and so on i personally would like free xci loader for atmos but that too wont happen

 

[RednaxelaNnamtra]

well theres no Money in that so Team X will Never do it and theres other ways going online keeping your sysnand clean and so on i personally would like free xci loader for atmos but that too wont happen

Like I said its very unlikely, but its probably not imposible that they do it, since they could use that to push the narrative further, that they arent primarily a piracy tool, and more a homebrew and private copy tool.

Also I didnt talk about keeping the nand clean, but instead of the comfort feature of just jusing the xcis of my games cards to play online.
But for the small part of people that use piracy to test games, keeping the online nand cleaner with xcis, and continuing the save after buying it, without any additional work, could be seen as another comfort feature. But it's one, where the user still needs to be careful not to go online while using the pirated xci, and thats already included in sxos.

About the open source xci loader, i think it will probably happen after fs got reimplemented, since from there on you won't need to reverse fs anymore, but instead ou just extend it.
But unless somebody cracks lotus, it will probably also not support using xcis online.

 

[Purple_Heart]

reason why nobody makes an xci loader is because it uses code which belong to Nintendo (so the loader alone is illegal)

 

[Deleted User]

reason why nobody makes an xci loader is because it uses code which belong to Nintendo (so the loader alone is illegal)

not only that, longer load time

 

[smf]

XCI files have no significant benefit over NSP files.

For you.

They don't leave crap on your emunand that can be used for a ban.
You can store more games on a large usb disk than you can install NSP on a microsd.

Whether that is significant is subjective & it's clear you take a contrary point of view because you don't like XCI. The fact you repeatedly feel the need to troll arguments against XCI on a thread asking for XCI is proof.

reason why nobody makes an xci loader is because it uses code which belong to Nintendo (so the loader alone is illegal)

TX's implementation does, it would be possible to implement it without doing that. The DMCA and EUCD clearly makes distributing anything that allows NSP's to be installed illegal as well & people have done that.

 

[linuxares]

reason why nobody makes an xci loader is because it uses code which belong to Nintendo (so the loader alone is illegal)

There are ways to do it legal. But any XCI loader most likely will bring down the wrath of Nintendo.

 

[Purple_Heart]

There are ways to do it legal. But any XCI loader most likely will bring down the wrath of Nintendo.

thats another reason i mean even if you can make a loader without Nintys code....the main purpose of xci is piracy

 

[linuxares]

thats another reason i mean even if you can make a loader without Nintys code....the main purpose of xci is piracy

Yepp, no other reason.

 

[Cylent1]

everyone that comes to this site is a pirate!!!

 

[Jayinem81]

Imagine wasting hours arguing on a BBcode forum about which method saves a few minutes when transferring files (when you can do something else at the same time anyways)

LMAOing at your lives

LOL I thought of this

 

[NuadaXXX]

everyone that comes to this site is a pirate!!!

play u ur nsp offline and i play my xci since 1,5 j without problems online i see no problems there and we all will be happy :-)