Was brexit good or bad for the UK?

[toolazytosearchitmyself]

The sources I read say it was a disaster which made the nation poorer. But this isn't an issue which affects me so I simply read a few sentences then move onto the next article. The sources I read are quite limited so my views are coloured by their biases.

 

[Xzi]

Given the fallout from Brexit resulted in not one, but two prime ministers resigning in disgrace, the answer should be pretty obvious. I'd say the better question is: can anybody name a single tangible benefit of Brexit? The country is no less subject to the whims of a global market, just treated with far more indifference now.

 

[Chrisssj2]

There needs to be an exit of all governments. So yes obviously it is good.

 

[Taleweaver]

Economically it's a colossal failure. Not so much the leaving of the EU, but the leaving of the single market. The result of that is higher export taxes on positions that aren't properly equipped for it(1), long and costly delays of shipment and essentially a border in the Irish sea (note: that might be resolved with Sunak's recent treaty, but I'm sceptic).

Arguably worse is that the ruling xenophobia limits workers from the EU, resulting in job shortages on a large scale (truck drivers were the most visible ones). Result: prices went up for previously stable products.
UK defended itself by waving with trade deals with Japan and Australia, but as far as i can tell these are at best similar with what they had under EU laws. The fact that the Australian deal doesn't go into effect but years on says something (I think Johnson/Truss knew it'd be someone else's mess to clean up).

Northern Ireland should have been a huge red flag in that regard. Until now, it had been in the unique position of being both in the single market as subject to UK laws, and as such had the best of both worlds(2). But rather than pay attention, UK media somewhat sweeped the economical result under the rug until after Truss was gone. That is: Northern Ireland has had a much better economical situation since brexit. The media was too busy blaming the pandemic for UK's collapse, though that changed once it became clear the UK's economy is the worst of the G7 countries. Worse than Russia, IIRC.



EDIT: somewhat outside the scope of the request, but it's a failure ethically as well. The whole idea was to "get rid of EU regulations". But as an outside nation with a wish to trade with the EU...outside states have to follow MORE guidelines (ironically also voted on by then-EU UK diplomats).

(1): technically, the UK can of course add import taxes from the EU as well. They can. The only reason they're not doing it is because it raises the costs of living even more as well as add even more delays.
(2): though I honestly couldn't tell what benefit the UK laws had. They have a minister whose job it is to find brexit advantages, and if "we can now frack for oil " tops the list then I'm not really optimistic

Given the fallout from Brexit resulted in not one, but two prime ministers resigning in disgrace, the answer should be pretty obvious. I'd say the better question is: can anybody name a single tangible benefit of Brexit? The country is no less subject to the whims of a global market, just treated with far more indifference now.

Technically four, though it depends on perspective...
* Cameron quit once it became clear his brexit vote didn't pan out the way he wanted
* May just had to deal with a bunch of nay-sayers who thought the EU would give them wat they wanted
* Johnson should have resigned over his "oven ready" deal and the continuous lies about it, but instead resigned because he just had lots of internal scandals on the side (what was it that pushed him over the edge again? Endorsing a toxic employee?)
* Truss's mini-budget blew up in her face

 

[zekro94]

As a fellow european my opinion is that it was a bad thing. The idea behind it was too sweet: Have UK be comprised of mostly UK born folk, having jobs for the nationals after the immigrants would go away. Here's the kicker: The majority who voted Yes on Brexit are old people, now young people will have to live with the consequence made by some people who will die in a few years and it won't affect them. Most people who voted Yes did so thinking about how many jobs there would be or how much money they could save not having to pay the EU but they didn't think it on a comercial way, how trades would work. From what I saw, people thought brexit would magically make Uk a better country, instead they now have to struggle with things like lack of workers in some sectors or having to do new deals on imports which may be worse than when they were in the EU. Politicians preyed on people's sense on nationalism in order to achieve it

 

[x65943]

This should tell you all you need to know, the PM of the UK today said that "Being in single market and UK makes Northern Ireland ‘world’s most exciting economic zone’,"

The poor misguided lad is simply describing the UK pre-brexit

Apparently what they had was the world's most exciting economic zone, and now they don't have basic produce on shelves

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sunak-brexit-deal-northern-ireland-b2291089.html

 

[Futurdreamz]

Ultimately it was more complicated then the politicians expected. There's a lot that went wrong, but Northern Ireland is the one thing that should've been figured out before this was even started - and not just "hand waved" to figure out later. It either needs to be separated from Ireland and unified with the UK, or separated from the UK and unified with Ireland. The politicians wanted to use nonexistant technology/magic to pull it off, but ultimately with the UK no longer part of the EU Northen Ireland cannot functionally be part of both the EU and UK trading blocks - and grocery store shelves are going empty trying to do so.

There are only four possible resolutions to this problem:
a) ireland leaves the EU and joins the UK trading block
b) the UK rejoins the EU and unifies the trading block.
c) Northern ireland splits from the UK and rejoins the EU trading block either as it's own country or as part of Ireland
d) repeatedly burn through PMs who fail to resolve this deadlock while things continue to fall apart.

 

[Taleweaver]

This should tell you all you need to know, the PM of the UK today said that "Being in single market and UK makes Northern Ireland ‘world’s most exciting economic zone’,"

The poor misguided lad is simply describing the UK pre-brexit

Apparently what they had was the world's most exciting economic zone, and now they don't have basic produce on shelves

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sunak-brexit-deal-northern-ireland-b2291089.html

While it's indeed a remarkably dumb statement for a brexiteer, it's slightly more complicated than that. Presuming NI actually is "world's most exciting economic zone".

NI is now flourishing mostly because the UK has left the single market AND NI itself is still in it. It has the benefit of both but the drawbacks of neither. I don't think it attracts smugglers, but that the profiteers are mostly having less paperwork/administration/taxes than their UK counterparts.

 

[Tomato123]

I like that we aren't subject to future EU laws anymore (Who remembers article 13?). However, the economic repercussions of it have been pretty bad. The fresh food shortages aren't great as it was much simpler to just import that from elsewhere before. But we have a single bad season of local fresh food growth and it throws us into a shortage. My brother works in a Morrisons so I hear from him how bad it really is since all the pickers just have to comp the orders constantly (replace with something similar or not give them anything at all).

 

[Maximumbeans]

As somebody born and bred in the UK, it's been a colossal mistake, one of the stupidest things we've ever done as a nation, and it's solidified my and my wife's desire to emigrate in the near future. For the record we both voted to Remain so at least I can't blame myself.

To be both fair and honest though, much as I'm frustrated by the people who voted to Leave, I don't entirely blame them. There are politicians who, in my opinion, should be on trial for the promises they made during the campaigns. They made outrageous promises and outright lied to see the vote through. I think a lot of people were duped, because a lot of people in the UK are...how do I put this delicately...hmm...let's say 'thick as pig shit'.

 

[Taleweaver]

Ultimately it was more complicated then the politicians expected. There's a lot that went wrong, but Northern Ireland is the one thing that should've been figured out before this was even started - and not just "hand waved" to figure out later. It either needs to be separated from Ireland and unified with the UK, or separated from the UK and unified with Ireland. The politicians wanted to use nonexistant technology/magic to pull it off, but ultimately with the UK no longer part of the EU Northen Ireland cannot functionally be part of both the EU and UK trading blocks - and grocery store shelves are going empty trying to do so.

There are only four possible resolutions to this problem:
a) ireland leaves the EU and joins the UK trading block
b) the UK rejoins the EU and unifies the trading block.
c) Northern ireland splits from the UK and rejoins the EU trading block either as it's own country or as part of Ireland
d) repeatedly burn through PMs who fail to resolve this deadlock while things continue to fall apart.

Ehhhhhmmmm...I'm going to go with "no". If you ask me, people like Johnson and Farage never expected to actually win the brexit vote in the first place. That's why the first negotiators were utterly unprepared (there was this photo of the first meeting: the EU negotiators had a couple maps and some laptops, the UK negotiators didn't even have a notebook with them), the first minister turned out to be a remainer and the investigation of the feasibility was non-existant (most striking that I remember was Dominic Raab expressing that Dover was far more active than he had initially thought. And that guy was secretary of state for Exiting the EU).

Yes, Northern Ireland was a problem. But not because of its location. After all, Gibraltar voted like 99% remain and last I heard they were happily still being part of the UK. Following MORE EU regulations than before brexit, but nobody's complaining.
No, NI is a problem because their local political group (DUP) is diametrically opposed to anything the EU wants or needs AND the UK government needs their support to stay in power. That's also why I said I was skeptical of Sunak's deal (Windsor framework). This whole stuff of "red lanes and green lanes" isn't new. Fuck...it was proposed by the EU back when...erm...either May or Johnson still ran the show. And there's only a small reason it might play out different:

The deal consists of asking the NI population to vote on it's implication.


DUP has already lost influence to Sinn Féinn but still holds the de factor power in the region (AFAIK). This part of the deal is a poisonous gift to them, and I think they're aware of that. They can't really rally against the deal (or framework? I can't tell the difference) because it goes directly against what their voters want. But the population in Northern Ireland have no reason NOT to vote on its implication: those who want a reunited Ireland see it as an opportunity and those who want the economic profit as well. The only ones against it are the DUP itself, because they're treatened to become irrelevant to Sinn Féinn.


It <Northern Ireland> either needs to be separated from Ireland and unified with the UK,

Hmm...sorry if I'm being condescending, but this part doesn't make sense: NI never was not unified with the UK in this ordeal. And that's the entire pickle: the UK always treated NI as part of the UK. For good reason, but they forgot they can't just make up their own laws (or rather: standards on things like food) and not expect border checks. And they can't do border checks either because that upset the locals (the good friday agreement was heavily fought over and won't be dismissed).

I'm presuming you meant to write "there should be a strict border between Northern ireland and the rest of ireland" there, correct?

As for your options...here's my opinion on these:
a) ireland leaves the EU and joins the UK trading block
Yeah, I've heard that suggestion. I don't often get physically angry, but that was a time it happened. The fucking AUDACITY! "Hey guys: we're lowering our food standards, and we're not going to hold border checks. If it bothers you that lower quality goods might enter your market, just surrender the rest of Ireland to us, mkay? "

b) the UK rejoins the EU and unifies the trading block.
the most likely to happen. But not in the near future. I have a few ideas on why labour isn't jumping on the bandwagon, but sooner or later someone is going to have to face up to the fact that it was a collossal failure and the best course of action is to rejoin. Probably without all the benefits the UK had as a EU member.

c) Northern ireland splits from the UK and rejoins the EU trading block either as it's own country or as part of Ireland
This would be my gut response to a). The DUP will fight it hell or high water, but if Sunak's gambit pays off they might become irrelevant. For as far as I can tell, Sinn Féinn isn't as reckless as the tories so I don't think it'll be a near future solution. But depending on things play out, I consider this the second most likely outcome.

d) repeatedly burn through PMs who fail to resolve this deadlock while things continue to fall apart.
It's not a deadlock. It's economically worse than within the EU, but the UK has the media on its side. It's only after Truss's resignation that the major ones even bother criticizing brexit in the first place (2+ years after the fact). Arguing in the "brexit benefits" thread ended up feeling like swimming against the river flow. For every economic argument I brought, the proponents repeated some sort of "the EU is a dark, evil, bureaucratic empire" statement. Not sure where these guys are now, but at best they're having doubts. But it's more likely they just blame the EU for their misery. And as such, rather have the economic downside.
So..."burn through" might be not the wrong way to put it, but there'll probably be some status quo's and follow-ups of prime ministers before someone dares to bring up the idea of joining the EU (and get politically burnt for that, most likely).

 

[duwen]

Bad for the U, good for the K

...personally, I always thought it was bad... and as a UK resident I can attest that it has proven to not be great.

 

[x65943]

While it's indeed a remarkably dumb statement for a brexiteer, it's slightly more complicated than that. Presuming NI actually is "world's most exciting economic zone".

NI is now flourishing mostly because the UK has left the single market AND NI itself is still in it. It has the benefit of both but the drawbacks of neither. I don't think it attracts smugglers, but that the profiteers are mostly having less paperwork/administration/taxes than their UK counterparts.

No one would say that NI is flourishing, very backwards place with an economy dependent on handouts from London

True perhaps this might lead to a better situation for them, but as of now not much has changed for them

 

[Taleweaver]

No one would say that NI is flourishing, very backwards place with an economy dependent on handouts from London

True perhaps this might lead to a better situation for them, but as of now not much has changed for them

No?
https://www.politico.eu/article/northern-ireland-economy-outpace-post-brexit-britain/
https://www.politico.eu/article/experts-brexit-protocol-is-boosting-northern-ireland-economy/
https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/insights/northern-ireland-potential-post-brexit/
https://www.economicsobservatory.co...nomic-impact-of-the-northern-ireland-protocol (hilariously, this claims "The Northern Irish economy suffered much less from Covid-19 than the rest of the UK". Right... )

I'm not claiming it's suddenly the best in the world (I'm not Sunak), but it's doing pretty good I would say.

 

[Foxi4]

Given the fallout from Brexit resulted in not one, but two prime ministers resigning in disgrace (…)

I think you named the one tangible benefit right there. Can they just keep doing that, forever?

 

[mrgone]

Brexit is a fail, leaving the EU was a mistake, pretty much all reasons were lies IIRC

how does it affect me personally:
if i buy sth from ebay.uk or amazon.uk I now have to pay taxes, so i won't buy from there anymore

 

[caipora]

No benefit, just one more far-right movement around the globe, they were afraid of turkish and polish people heavily used lobbying for media control and propaganda.
Messy hair blonde dude was a huge dumbass and harrasser.

 

[JeepX87]

My answer would be... ask UK voters about what their thought with Brexit.

If voters are unhappy, they have opportunity to change the government via election but they didn't, based on 2019 result.

As for me, I can't help with UK.

 

[mrdude]

My answer would be... ask UK voters about what their thought with Brexit.

If voters are unhappy, they have opportunity to change the government via election but they didn't, based on 2019 result.

As for me, I can't help with UK.

I'm a UK voter and am happy we have left, however technically we haven't because we have a house of lords full of remainers and the civil service trying to throw a spanner in the works at every opertunity they get. We are still subject to EU laws etc, so we haven't properly left the EU. We never actually ever voted to join the EU in the first place, back in the 70's we voted to join the single market and we dragged into the EU by politicians and were never given a choice, basically we joined the EU via steath from a bunch of politicians and lords that had a financial interest in us being part of the EU.

I'll be happy when we having nothing left to do with the EU and none of their laws are part of UK laws.

 

[Flame]

I'm a UK voter and am happy we have left, however technically we haven't because we have a house of lords full of remainers and the civil service trying to throw a spanner in the works at every opertunity they get. We are still subject to EU laws etc, so we haven't properly left the EU. We never actually ever voted to join the EU in the first place, back in the 70's we voted to join the single market and we dragged into the EU by politicians and were never given a choice, basically we joined the EU via steath from a bunch of politicians and lords that had a financial interest in us being part of the EU.

I'll be happy when we having nothing left to do with the EU and none of their laws are part of UK laws.

As a peasants i disagree. but you being a billionaire I'm sure leaving EU has benefited you a lot.