US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan

[jimbo13]

Shifting of the burden of proof is a logical fallacy. We believe things when they're demonstrated. If you're going to believe claims until their disproven, and that's your criteria for belief, then you have to believe in all sorts of contradictory nonsense.

Answer the question, has Biden and Harris denied the validity of it?

I never claimed to believe it, however it seems to fit nicely with itinerary of Biden running back and forth from Camp David and Kamala's absence. Is Willy Brown in DC? she might be "busy".

 

[Xzi]

If you are going to make such a ridiculous equivalency do me a favor and PM the liveleak of mormons doing a beheading or a fundie stoning session. I'll wait.

Or I could just post a video of a black church or Jewish Temple being shot up, right? The Mormon church is essentially a pyramid scheme that uses "heaven as a service," but it's Evangelicals that really hold much more dangerous and extremist beliefs. Life is just one big waiting room to them, and whatever they can do to bring about the "end of days" sooner can only be a good thing; even if that means murdering "others" on their way out.

 

[jimbo13]

Or I could just post a video of a black church or Jewish Temple being shot up, right? The Mormon church is essentially a pyramid scheme that uses "heaven as a service," but it's Evangelicals that really hold much more dangerous and extremist beliefs. Life is just one big waiting room to them, and whatever they can do to bring about the "end of days" sooner can only be a good thing; even if that means murdering "others" on their way out.

Isolated incidents of mentally ill individuals who most likely were on serotonin reuptake inhibitors which has been the case in nearly every spree shooting that has ever taken place is not equivalent to broad terrorist organizations.

I'll wait on that beheading video.

 

[ChronoTrig]

I didn't say there shouldn't have been any retaliation, but we should've at least retaliated against the people/countries that were actually involved. Ultimately we sent in one team of Navy Seals to assassinate Bin Laden. If we had just done that in the first place, we could've saved trillions of dollars and millions of lives. Retaliation against Saudi Arabia was always unlikely, but it's absolutely ludicrous that the GWB administration let Saudi royals fly out of the US when all other air travel was locked down. That should've been a huge red flag that we were being lied to about the perpetrators.


As the first black president, he didn't want to rock the boat too much. That ended up causing him to be too timid/moderate on a number of issues, and thus the reason his presidency was a pretty big disappointment to a lot of progressives.

People/countries - Afghanistan had Taliban and Al-Qaeda, who as I mentioned launched missiles in '98 at the US Embassy. The mission kept changing while over there too. Should we have left long ago? Sure, but again, look at those sad people trying to cling onto an aircraft leaving because they know what's to come without US protections. The war was necessary and there will be casualties, but people expect everyone to be completely unharmed when that's just not real life. You're trying to reduce a population of bad people who want to cause harm that are crimes against humanity. It wasn't just Osama who did bad things; it was a collective. I do believe the Saudi royals should have been in trouble was well.
The problem is the civilian sector thinks they have a need-to-know on every mission operative going on wherever cause then you get protests and the like.
We still have troops in Germany and Japan… while they aren’t 3rd world tribal civilizations, the concept and model is the same. Regardless, we’re not at this point if we as a country had the stomach for the same warfighting that has existed for most of American history. Instead we “fight” through lawyers and global consensus while portions of the American people stupidly believe they are obligated to know every American military move before it happens.

As the first black president lol.. He got gay marriage going; I'd say that's rocking a massive boat with how wild the south is with their disdain for anything not straight especially back in 2012-2013. Please don't say he didnt want to rock the boat. There's way more you nor I know about behind the scenes that civilians have NO CLUE about.

 

[Valwinz]

Americans are trap right now and Biden just left them there

Thousands of U.S. citizens are trapped in Kabul with no ability to get to the airport. As Taliban soldiers go door to door, searching for Westerners, these U.S. citizens are now reaching out to Washington for help. https://t.co/0DfEcbrPyt

— Josh Rogin (@joshrogin) August 16, 2021

 

[ChronoTrig]

I didn't say anything about bombing anyone. Don't be disingenuous. I don't remember if it was you or someone else, but I've only heard conservatives in this thread praising Trump for being willing to "bomb them to oblivion."

It was someone else, but I was also trying to be playful with you. You seem super stiff dude. Like a robot. And you do realize even democracies bomb people, right? Your boy biden bombs people, Obama bombed people, Biden bombed people in both times in office. This whole conservative attack BS is annoying.

 

[Lacius]

Answer the question, has Biden and Harris denied the validity of it?

I never claimed to believe it, however it seems to fit nicely with itinerary of Biden running back and forth from Camp David and Kamala's absence. Is Willy Brown in DC? she might be "busy".

Failure to dignify something with a response is not an admission that it is true. Obama went years, for example, without dignifying Trump's racist birtherism by producing his birth certificate. There's plenty of garbage posted on this site that I don't dignify with a response either.

Also, I'm unaware of anyone asking anybody about the supposed comments, let alone answering questions about it. What are you smoking that you think Biden, Harris, or someone in the administration is going to stop in the middle of this Afghanistan business, look in the camera, and say, unprompted, "I want to address these rumors of Harris saying something, even though these rumors are only circulating on conservative Twitter"?

 

[RivenMain]

And I'm telling you nobody should be interested in unsubstantiated claims from explicitly biased sources that can't be traced to anything other than the aforementioned biased source.

Dam dude your still arguing, you need to do something else with your life. 90% of all news is left wing. and because of it source credibility will always be scrutinized much heavier to republicans. Have you ever used a search engine to find information other than google? Because if you want biased your top page paid for google pages are genuinely the most biased.

 

[Lacius]

It was someone else, but I was also trying to be playful with you. You seem super stiff dude. Like a robot. And you do realize even democracies bomb people, right? Your boy biden bombs people, Obama bombed people, Biden bombed people in both times in office. This whole conservative attack BS is annoying.

First, you called me a war monger who supported bombing people when I never came close to explicitly or implicitly suggesting that to be the case. Second, I never said that "democracies don't bomb people." Of course they do.

If your best response to my posts is "you're acting stuff; I was just prankin' bro," instead of anything substantive, I'll take that as a concession.

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Dam dude your still arguing, you need to do something else with your life. 90% of all news is left wing. and because of it source credibility will always be scrutinized much heavier to republicans. Have you ever used a search engine to find information other than google? Because if you want biased your top page paid for google pages are genuinely the most biased.

If your best response to my posts is "Dude, get a life," instead of something that substantively addresses the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession.

 

[titan_tim]

Here's something that made me chuckle:
https://gizmodo.com/gop-quietly-scrubs-webpage-detailing-trumps-historic-pe-1847492947

This whole debacle was not the work of one person. It was a team effort.

- Bush Jr went in there in the first place and started bombing the shit out of them (With a majority of the US population egging him on, still seething from 9/11)
- Obama continued bombing the shit out of the country (And I believe contemplated withdrawal).
- Trump was pushing for withdrawal and attempted to negotiate with the Taliban (Knowing that a takeover was inevitable if they left)
- Biden pulled the trigger to get the heck out of there.

If the withdrawal had happened in ANY of those points, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Taliban would have come back and taken over in the same way, and the person who made the order to get out would have been blamed. If Trump pulled out, then @Lacius would have been saying it was done terribly, and @jimbo13 would have been defending him using the same points which each are using on each other right now.

It's the slot-machine mentality. If you stay longer, you hope that it'll eventually pay off. But sometimes it's best to quit after wasting 4 trillion dollars and 20 years. Now the buzzards (Russia and China) are circling the slot-machine, hoping to cash in.

 

[Hanafuda]

Biden stands behind his decision to follow through on withdrawal, as well he should.

Third time I've posted to say so, but this isn't even about the 'decision to follow through on withdrawal.' Withdrawing from Afghanistan, ASAP, had broad bipartisan support on Capitol Hill and with the general public. Nobody of significance is criticizing Biden for the decision to follow through.

It's the fucking it all up, even after he extended the timeline for doing so by months, that has people upset. And it was definitely, very royally fucked up.

 

[jimbo13]

Failure to dignify something with a response is not an admission that it is true. Obama went years, for example, without dignifying Trump's racist birtherism by producing his birth certificate. There's plenty of garbage posted on this site that I don't dignify with a response either.

Demonstrably false, Birtherism was started by Clinton campaigners in 2008 and Obama addressed his birth certificate many times..

The theory that Obama was born in Kenya “first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama’s citizenship.”

The second article, which ran several days after the Politico piece, was published by the Telegraph, a British paper, which stated: “An anonymous email circulated by supporters of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama’s main rival for the party’s nomination, thrust a new allegation into the national spotlight — that he had not been born in Hawaii.”

First, you called me a war monger who supported bombing people when I never came close to explicitly or implicitly suggesting that to be the case. Second, I never said that "democracies don't bomb people." Of course they do.

When you support a President and politicians who have voted in favor of every military intervention in the last 40 years that makes you a war monger.

 

[Lacius]

Here's something that made me chuckle:
https://gizmodo.com/gop-quietly-scrubs-webpage-detailing-trumps-historic-pe-1847492947

This whole debacle was not the work of one person. It was a team effort.

- Bush Jr went in there in the first place and started bombing the shit out of them (With a majority of the US population egging him on, still seething from 9/11)
- Obama continued bombing the shit out of the country (And I believe contemplated withdrawal).
- Trump was pushing for withdrawal and attempted to negotiate with the Taliban (Knowing that a takeover was inevitable if they left)
- Biden pulled the trigger to get the heck out of there.

If the withdrawal had happened in ANY of those points, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Taliban would have come back and taken over in the same way, and the person who made the order to get out would have been blamed. If Trump pulled out, then @Lacius would have been saying it was done terribly, and @jimbo13 would have been defending him using the same points which each are using on each other right now.

It's the slot-machine mentality. If you stay longer, you hope that it'll eventually pay off. But sometimes it's best to quit after wasting 4 trillion dollars and 20 years. Now the buzzards (Russia and China) are circling the slot-machine, hoping to cash in.

1. I would have said Trump did it terribly because he negotiated with the Taliban and empowered them immediately before the withdrawal would have happened.
2. I wouldn't have criticized Trump's withdrawal from Afghanistan itself. I support withdrawal from the region, and I would have supported it under any president.
3. Trump never withdrew from the region, despite having four years to do so, and I'm doubtful it would have actually occurred under Trump.

 

[RivenMain]

If your best response to my posts is "Dude, get a life," instead of something that substantively addresses the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession.

I just got on actually, focus on the other topic if you would pls. I'd like to hear your response.

 

[Kunty]

So I got privy to some info about a year ago, UK, USA and France knew that they were losing and it was inevitable that the Taliban were going to overthrow the Afghan government. They were just trying to control the collateral and save face by trying to make an effort. In reality they knew for a long time that it was gonna go down the toilet. I don't think anyone predicted the president would run away though. In my opinion he should have gone down with the ship rather than abandoning his people. I worked with some loose lipped people, I won't say what my job was but it was one of the many branches of the UK government, not MoD. We knew about lockdowns and all that stuff like a week in advance of the general public. Biden is an idiot, as is Macron and Johnson.

 

[ChronoTrig]

First, you called me a war monger who supported bombing people when I never came close to explicitly or implicitly suggesting that to be the case. Second, I never said that "democracies don't bomb people." Of course they do.

If your best response to my posts is "you're acting stuff; I was just prankin' bro," instead of anything substantive, I'll take that as a concession.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


If your best response to my posts is "Dude, get a life," instead of something that substantively addresses the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession.

See. You're funny and you twist things. You said the taliban's thoughts didn't matter (then what should we do about them because they will cause issues for American people--- democracies bomb?). So I said so you're saying we should just bomb them all (as a ribbing). You take this shit wayyyy too seriously for gbatemp, a gaming website, not political at all.

I didn't say bro, so don't make me sound like some young punk trying to be impressionable. I'm sorry you lack humor and act uptight. And I did give my reasoning, you're delusional and only want to think what you think instead of what someone writes. It's why this thread has been going on for several pages.
God bless.

 

[Lacius]

Demonstrably false, Birtherism was started by Clinton campaigners in 2008 and Obama addressed his birth certificate many times..






When you support a President and politicians who have voted in favor of every military intervention in the last 40 years that makes you a war monger.

I love when you try to use the term "demonstrably false" while saying something demonstrably false. Birtherism started during Obama's 2004 Senate campaign, with conservative origins, but didn't get a lot of national attention. Some Clinton supporters sent some emails about it that originated from the aforementioned 2004 bullshit, but it didn't get a lot of national attention either. After he was elected president, birtherism among conservatives soared similar to Q anon conspiracy theories today (lots of the same people, I imagine), and it was championed by Donald Trump, and he used it to put the national spotlight on himself. He willfully became the face of birtherism. It's what got him into the political arena.

Regardless of how it started, it was racist conspiracy theory nonsense, and Trump was gleefully the poster child for it. Obama didn't dignify it with the birth certificate they were demanding for years.

 

[titan_tim]

I would have said Trump did it terribly because he negotiated with the Taliban and empowered them immediately before the withdrawal would have happened.

As we've seen today, it would have happened regardless. He also lowered the troop count to 2,500 after the election, which made it easier for them to take over today. But at the same time, having less troops in preparation to withdraw made it hopefully slightly easier to get out today.

Trump never withdrew from the region, despite having four years to do so, and I'm doubtful it would have actually occurred under Trump.

Nobody really wanted to pull the trigger on that one. It would have looked bad for anyone. If Trump was re-elected, I would expect that this would be happening today (Or earlier based on the original negotiation). Unfortunately that honor has fallen on Biden, since it was basically already set.

“there is no gracious way to lose a war”

 

[djpannda]

I forgot bout this
2018 - Abdul Ghani Baradar was freed from prison at the request of the Trump administration

2020 - Abdul Ghani Baradar met with then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo

2021 - Abdul Ghani Baradar is set to become the next President of Afghanistan
…. Yea Trump had nothing to do with the Taliban rise to power

 

[Lacius]

See. You're funny and you twist things. You said the taliban's thoughts didn't matter (then what should we do about them because they will cause issues for American people--- democracies bomb?). So I said so you're saying we should just bomb them all (as a ribbing). You take this shit wayyyy too seriously for gbatemp, a gaming website, not political at all.

I didn't say bro, so don't make me sound like some young punk trying to be impressionable. I'm sorry you lack humor and act uptight. And I did give my reasoning, you're delusional and only want to think what you think instead of what someone writes. It's why this thread has been going on for several pages.
God bless.

If your only responses are personal attacks about how serious and uptight you think I am, instead of responding to the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession and an end to our conversation.

Last I checked, it was a serious topic with serious posts I was responding to. Oof.

If you want to call me delusional, please point to the delusion and demonstrate it is one. Thank you.