Star Trek is Back, Mutha***kas!!!!

DiscostewSM

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I love Star Trek from TNG onward. I could never really get into the original series. Think it's got something to do with the kind of characters in them, starting with TNG, like Data/Worf, Quark/Odo, Neelix/Doctor, Phlox, etc. If they don't include those kind of characters in the new one, then I fear I may not care.

Now, let's have some good wholesome entertainment with a number of clips spliced together.

 
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Veho

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But then I will have to complain about how backwards planets have still achieved world unification.
(As the actress said to the priest) it's not that hard. Genghis Khan got halfway there with nothing but a bunch of angry guys on tiny horses.
 

Bladexdsl

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if it is anything like JJ's movies than
43938000.jpg
 

Muffins

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If they make a Star Trek series, I hope it's a good Star Trek series.

The problem I always get with Star Trek is that I watch an episode, enjoy it, then I start to think way too much about it and all of a sudden all the plotholes pop out at me and they won't... go... away. I mean, by the end of Voyager's point in the timeline humanity has the capability to travel at a whim through time, change one's age to whatever one would want, create a replicator the size of a golf ball... all these fantastic things, yet because of the massive world-changing nature of them, once they're invented they vanish, never to be spoken of again. That and they were writing shows from the knowledge standpoint apparently of people who had never actually used computers, which led to the head-on-desk moments of people physically carrying reports to people on PADDS or carting around boxes of the things, with each one containing a "letter from home" to people. Don't even get me started on the faux-programming talk they used with the Doctor.

Honestly?

Voyager would have been "solved" in a single episode if they used the knowledge they had on hand instead of just "point ship towards home".

TNG wrote itself into a corner in the very second episode with the "here is something that we can't replicate"... except that you can beam it, and if you can beam it (as they proved with a Riker later in the series) then you can duplicate it.

Don't even get me started with Phlox and his genocidal failure to understand basic evolution.
 

Veho

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Speaking of teleporters / replicators, I hope this time they'll finally admit that the ship's transporter kills the person and creates a copy of them at the destination :tpi:
 
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Muffins

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Speaking of teleporters / replicators, I hope this time they'll finally admit that the ship's transporter kills the person and creates a copy of them at the destination :tpi:

It would certainly justify the fears of all the people who don't want to be transported...

The moral implications alone would be astounding.
 

LightyKD

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If they make a Star Trek series, I hope it's a good Star Trek series.

The problem I always get with Star Trek is that I watch an episode, enjoy it, then I start to think way too much about it and all of a sudden all the plotholes pop out at me and they won't... go... away. I mean, by the end of Voyager's point in the timeline humanity has the capability to travel at a whim through time, change one's age to whatever one would want, create a replicator the size of a golf ball... all these fantastic things, yet because of the massive world-changing nature of them, once they're invented they vanish, never to be spoken of again. That and they were writing shows from the knowledge standpoint apparently of people who had never actually used computers, which led to the head-on-desk moments of people physically carrying reports to people on PADDS or carting around boxes of the things, with each one containing a "letter from home" to people. Don't even get me started on the faux-programming talk they used with the Doctor.

Honestly?

Voyager would have been "solved" in a single episode if they used the knowledge they had on hand instead of just "point ship towards home".

TNG wrote itself into a corner in the very second episode with the "here is something that we can't replicate"... except that you can beam it, and if you can beam it (as they proved with a Riker later in the series) then you can duplicate it.

Don't even get me started with Phlox and his genocidal failure to understand basic evolution.

But.. But... I love Phlox. Enterprise is my favorite Trek series. If the new show is as story driven as Enterprise and DS9 with the funny character moments of J.J. Trek, I am sooooo totally in! I don't get all the hate for J.J. Trek. Trek movies are not known for being huge philosophical viewing fest. We have the TV shows for that. Trek movies are for character moments and the big adventure. I lovey philosophy in Trek but the movies need to be fun and a slightly different experience from the show. I still wanted a DS9 or Enterprise movie :( -Hopefully we can get some telltale games!
 

Muffins

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If Phlox had merely been incompetent or annoying, then the bigger issue would have not presented itself. He would have been like Neelix- irritating, but ultimately ignorable, as long-tongued zookeeping doctors go.
No, Phlox changed all that when his idiocy and incompetence led to him using a horribly wrong idea of how evolution works in order to sentence a species to a slow and painful death.
It's a moral event horizon that was crossed, bringing a character from merely being a thorn in the side of most plotlines into something far more evil, far more despicable. It's a hatred I share with very, very few Trek episodes; "He Who Is Without Sin" is one of them. I think the other one is the one where a man is sentenced to die simply because his daughter is a stupid bitch (I can't remember it off the top of my head right now, I know it has Michelle Forbes in it).
 

LightyKD

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If Phlox had merely been incompetent or annoying, then the bigger issue would have not presented itself. He would have been like Neelix- irritating, but ultimately ignorable, as long-tongued zookeeping doctors go.
No, Phlox changed all that when his idiocy and incompetence led to him using a horribly wrong idea of how evolution works in order to sentence a species to a slow and painful death.
It's a moral event horizon that was crossed, bringing a character from merely being a thorn in the side of most plotlines into something far more evil, far more despicable. It's a hatred I share with very, very few Trek episodes; "He Who Is Without Sin" is one of them. I think the other one is the one where a man is sentenced to die simply because his daughter is a stupid bitch (I can't remember it off the top of my head right now, I know it has Michelle Forbes in it).


Man, and I thougt I took my Trek seriously, especially when it comes to my general dislike for Janeway.
 

grossaffe

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J.J. Trek is awesome. Fans needs to take that stick out their asses and realize that Trek can be many things to many people and that Trek doesn't have to follow the TOS-TNG formula.
Have you ever actually looked at the complaints regarding JJ Trek? It doesn't need to follow a formula to be good; in fact, that would make it... formulaic. Instead, it should be original but faithful. Somehow JJ Trek manages to be unfaithful to the source material while also being unoriginal.

Star Trek usually puts a lot of effort into getting the science and engineering reasonable. There's a great example from the movies starring the original cast where they're on turbolift and you can see by the movement of the lights that it is following the actual path needed to get from shuttlebay to the bridge. In JJ Trek, the door closes at shuttlebay and then immediately opens on the bridge. This subtle nuance shows the attention to detail the originals had over JJ Trek which isn't interested in science in the least.

JJ Trek also loves to take random things from the established Trek Universe and throw them around as fan service while not understanding anything about them. The planet Delta Vega? It's not in Vulcan's solar system. And even if it were, Vulcan would not appear in the sky bigger than the sun does in ours; ever look at Mars in the night sky? It's a dot of light. If we were to somehow accept the planets really were that close (would they have to be a binary planet?), how would Delta Vega not fall into a black hole that swallowed up Vulcan? On that subject, why would you have to drill to the center of a planet to place a black hole? It's a freaking black hole; it's gravity will eat the planet whether you place it in the center or not; no need to waste time drilling to the center, but that's not dramatic, so fuck it. Also, why was the Enterprise being built in Iowa? So Kirk could look at it in the distance and see his destiny?

Okay, so we've established Abrams doesn't give a shit about Science, which is a big part of Star Trek, does he at least treat the characters well? Well he decided to arbitrarily make Spock the creator of the Kobyashi Maru so he could create conflict between him and Kirk. On the subject of the Kobyashi Maru, it's established canon that Kirk received a commendation for original thinking for hacking the simulation, not a court marshal. And how about Spock and Sarek? They are supposed to be icy towards each since Spock elected to join Starfleet over joining the Vulcan Science Academy (See: Journey to Babel). Furthermore, Spock has been made into the most emotional character in the series with a serious mother complex; give me a break. Why is Uhura a an aggressive sass-talker? And who didn't love the Uhura/Spock lover's-quarrel? And since when was Kirk a pervy teen? Yeah, he'll woo women, but he didn't go around grabbing girls' tits shooting a pervy smile afterwards.

Why are red-shirts going through Starfleet Academy? The academy is meant for officers. Much like you don't expect regular foot-soldiers to attend West Point Academy. Let's not forget that apparently Khan has magic blood that brings immortality. Oh, and he's super white now. And impervious to damage. And he took on a fake name because... well because Star Trek fans know who he is. Speaking of taking on fake names they did the same with Dr. Marcus because, you know, reasons. I bet if Abrams wasn't busy with Star Wars, we'd be getting Harry Barry Mudd.

And just from a cinematic point-of-view, everything in JJ Trek is rushed. There's never no time to build tension/anticipation. Instead its rush here, rush there. Go from Qo'nos to Earth in minutes, not days. Quick, run to the bridge to say something (because there isn't any form of communication on the ship). Quick, run from the Bridge to transporter bay because you, ensign, are a master of transporting because you became a prominent character in the original series (step aside, transporter chief Kyle, casual audiences haven't heard of you).

I'm going to abruptly stop here as I've lost the patience to go on.
 

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I wouldn't mind a new Star Trek series based on the comics. It would be tough getting the rights to do crossovers with X-Men and Transformers, though.
 

LightyKD

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Have you ever actually looked at the complaints regarding JJ Trek? It doesn't need to follow a formula to be good; in fact, that would make it... formulaic. Instead, it should be original but faithful. Somehow JJ Trek manages to be unfaithful to the source material while also being unoriginal.

Star Trek usually puts a lot of effort into getting the science and engineering reasonable. There's a great example from the movies starring the original cast where they're on turbolift and you can see by the movement of the lights that it is following the actual path needed to get from shuttlebay to the bridge. In JJ Trek, the door closes at shuttlebay and then immediately opens on the bridge. This subtle nuance shows the attention to detail the originals had over JJ Trek which isn't interested in science in the least.

JJ Trek also loves to take random things from the established Trek Universe and throw them around as fan service while not understanding anything about them. The planet Delta Vega? It's not in Vulcan's solar system. And even if it were, Vulcan would not appear in the sky bigger than the sun does in ours; ever look at Mars in the night sky? It's a dot of light. If we were to somehow accept the planets really were that close (would they have to be a binary planet?), how would Delta Vega not fall into a black hole that swallowed up Vulcan? On that subject, why would you have to drill to the center of a planet to place a black hole? It's a freaking black hole; it's gravity will eat the planet whether you place it in the center or not; no need to waste time drilling to the center, but that's not dramatic, so fuck it. Also, why was the Enterprise being built in Iowa? So Kirk could look at it in the distance and see his destiny?

Okay, so we've established Abrams doesn't give a shit about Science, which is a big part of Star Trek, does he at least treat the characters well? Well he decided to arbitrarily make Spock the creator of the Kobyashi Maru so he could create conflict between him and Kirk. On the subject of the Kobyashi Maru, it's established canon that Kirk received a commendation for original thinking for hacking the simulation, not a court marshal. And how about Spock and Sarek? They are supposed to be icy towards each since Spock elected to join Starfleet over joining the Vulcan Science Academy (See: Journey to Babel). Furthermore, Spock has been made into the most emotional character in the series with a serious mother complex; give me a break. Why is Uhura a an aggressive sass-talker? And who didn't love the Uhura/Spock lover's-quarrel? And since when was Kirk a pervy teen? Yeah, he'll woo women, but he didn't go around grabbing girls' tits shooting a pervy smile afterwards.

Why are red-shirts going through Starfleet Academy? The academy is meant for officers. Much like you don't expect regular foot-soldiers to attend West Point Academy. Let's not forget that apparently Khan has magic blood that brings immortality. Oh, and he's super white now. And impervious to damage. And he took on a fake name because... well because Star Trek fans know who he is. Speaking of taking on fake names they did the same with Dr. Marcus because, you know, reasons. I bet if Abrams wasn't busy with Star Wars, we'd be getting Harry Barry Mudd.

And just from a cinematic point-of-view, everything in JJ Trek is rushed. There's never no time to build tension/anticipation. Instead its rush here, rush there. Go from Qo'nos to Earth in minutes, not days. Quick, run to the bridge to say something (because there isn't any form of communication on the ship). Quick, run from the Bridge to transporter bay because you, ensign, are a master of transporting because you became a prominent character in the original series (step aside, transporter chief Kyle, casual audiences haven't heard of you).

I'm going to abruptly stop here as I've lost the patience to go on.

You do realize that J.J's Trek takes place in a ALTERNATE universe, right?! A lot of the character moments like Spock and Sarek don't have to follow the Prime universe. Additionally the same goes for red shirts being at the academy. That's the point of an alternate universe. You can do whatever the hell you want to it.
 

grossaffe

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You do realize that J.J's Trek takes place in a ALTERNATE universe, right?! A lot of the character moments like Spock and Sarek don't have to follow the Prime universe. Additionally the same goes for red shirts being at the academy. That's the point of an alternate universe. You can do whatever the hell you want to it.
The alternate universe can explain only very little of it. It does not explain red shirts going to academy. It does not explain the changes to Khan, who left Earth in the 1990s; long before the timeline branched. It does not explain Delta Vega being in Vulcan's solar system nor its extreme proximity to Vulcan yet still being safe from the black hole. It does not explain the lack of giving even one fuck about science. What the alternate universe should do is give the crew a chance to have all-new adventures, and they even fuck that up by forcing Khan in as soon as they can complete with Spock/Kirk dying and Kirk/Spock yelling "Khaaaaaaan!", and then having Spock/Kirk brought back to life.

And on top of all that, it does not excuse fundamentally changing the characters. If the alternate universe is supposed to have changed everything such that the characters are fundamentally different people, why is it they all somehow manage to get on The Enterprise? Destiny? This is Star Trek, that is an unacceptable answer. Spock gets on the Enterprise from being under Pike's command; okay, that is actually correct. Uhura gets on by being sassy-aggresive? I don't think so. Kirk gets on because he um... he looked like a sad puppy after being court marshaled when he should have received a commendation? Scotty gets on because... Kirk is jettisoned-against regulation, mind you--by Spock to a planet that shouldn't be there, and just happened to land within Walking distance of Scotty AND old-Spock, oh, and trans-warp beaming, which can be done because of an equation memorized by old-Spock; oh, and it works because "space moves, not us, so simple even an audience can understand!".

Sorry, alternate universe is an awful catch-all explanation for the re-characterization of the crew, is a non-explanation for Khan, and is a non-excuse for it being Star Trek In Name Only.
 

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I been reading the revival books. Continues TNG and Voyager series from the furthest point in the time line of the collected TV. That point being Voyager returning home. There is some crazy shit that happens in the 3rd and 4th Voyager series books. Book 5 they end up sending a whole fleet of ships with the mods made during Voyagers time lost in the deta, added to them all, along with addition upgrades back to the delta. Have not finished it yet, but the books do collectively start filling in plot holes from TNG and Voyager, even expand on seemly finished plots from past episodes.
 
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Muffins

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Biggest plothole in Voyager:

Janeway was supposed to be a Super Genius Scientist... yet...

How To Get Home When You Are Lost In A Scary Place And Have Advanced Technology And A Vulcan, In Ten Easy Steps.
Step 1:
Find a place where you won't get blown up. This is important! And do go annoying any Kazon or whanot. I know Janeway is a massive jerk and it seems like she can't stop getting into fights, but this is a BIG IMPORTANT THING. STOP FIGHTING PEOPLE. I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM.

Step 2:
Build a really big cargo bay.

Step 3:
Use the Riker Transporter Duplication method to duplicate a hefty bunch of dilithium so Paris can't whine about replicator rations. To learn more about the Riker Duplication Method, consult TNG: Second Chances.

Step 4:
Use your Vulcan and the time travel methods from dozens of prior Trek episodes (and one movie involving whales) and jump back in time several hundred years.

Step 5:
Cloak your ship. Dammit it, you have a cloak. You know you have a cloak. You're in the Delta Quadrant, so screw that stupid Treaty of Algernon or whatever it's called. Use the damn cloak. You don't want to have Funny Head Alien Of The Week blowing up your ship when you venture too far into it's 30 million mile "territory". Ugh.

Step 6:
Duplicate your EMH about fifty times. He can run the ship better than Janeway, and he won't stop to investigate every damned anomaly.

Step 7:
Put everyone in stasis.

Step 8:
Now that everyone is in stasis and your ship is cloaked- NOW you set a course for home. Not to weird Insterstellar Pitcher Plants, not to interesting doomed planets. HOME, dammit. Space is a really, really big place. Hell, if Amelia Earhart could find her way safely to the Delta Quadrant...

Step 9:
Emerge from Stasis in the Alpha Quadrant (ie: home) with everyone ALIVE, at basically the moment you left.

Step 10:
Get drunk when nobody believes your story about being stranded in the Delta Quadrant.
 
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