Sony on the future direction of PS3 and NGP

[Sully99]

There are no plans to reduce the die size of the PS3 beyond the current 45nm. It's possible that they are waiting for 22/20nm and will skip the 32/28nm generation. I'd read that reducing from 45nm to 32nm required a design change for the external pin connections and Sony is probably waiting for 22/20nm to make the change practical. So probably middle of 2012.

There are rumors of a PS3.5 which might happen at the same time (more memory and less likely a 4 element SPE tacked onto the memory buss). 22/20nm die process applies to all silicon including memory. As die size decreases efficiency improves and faster speeds are possible. A redesign for the PS3 from XDR ram to conventional cheap PC style ram using 20nm process could be as fast as the current XDR ram and cheaper. This might allow 500k or even 1gig ram for the PS3.5. Higher efficiency for the Cell and RSX might translate to a fanless PS3 with passive cooling. The PS3 Cell BE and RSX are being used by Sony in 4K commercial editing hardware so I expect there is a large market coming with 4K and 3-D movie editing.

Plans are to upgrade the OS Software and features of the PS3 to make it last longer. For instance the PS3 can display 4K, that can be enabled with a software upgrade. 2012 should have 4K res sets as well as 4K & 1080P 3-D blu-ray players. That would have the PS3 still able to match CE equipment standards and that will be the end of the PS3's ability to keep up with the CE media advances. The PS3 will be getting a webkit browser and upgrades to the PS3 OS to enable a webkit port and to allow porting of applications and games to the PS3 via PS Suite from the NGP (windows support).

Hiroshige Goto says SCEI suspended PS4 development. They were working on a PowerPC based system at IBM Rochester after the Larrabee fall out, then shelved it. They are betting the farm on PSP2 as they expect handhelds to displace consoles.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/...210_425921.html

The original source is in Japanese. Here are some additional excerpts posted on Beyond3D forums.

QUOTE? There is no immediate plan for PlayStation 4 (PS4)

In the introduction to a new portable game platforms, the new generation of anxious but deferred. PlayStation 3 (PS3) machine's successor, present what's going on. Hirai said that as mentioned below.

"On stationary and went in business in 2006 PS3 will go to the lifecycle of 10 years. In that sense, do not go to the halfway point yet. An attractive first-party titles, both third party, rather I came out. has implemented a new initiative announced each year in the future PS3 software to enhance the feature sets to take care and hope to grow. So suddenly the next generation PS4 or stationary machines that's what the debate is not even now. I mean the PS3 is now concentrating on. In addition, NGP and PS3 now want you to appeal to a new partnership with. "

This explanation is convincing. This generation aircraft is in the current harvest, the situation has been eagerly anticipated next-generation consoles is not. There are Gemupaburissha / circumstances of the developer is also at stake. Deferred generation machine now, advances in hardware development cost is bloated title. Thus, even the major studios can not run a large number of title lines of development. Due to rising costs, market failures and costly title.

In these situations, if the aircraft appeared to freeze new architecture to study again, the engine and tools, and will repeat the cycle, such as the burden would increase further. Many Gemudeberoppa, considering the business side, it would freeze the machine you really want to leave alone.

? SCE's next game is unchanged since the process 22/20nm

?SCE's plans for PS4 generation machine, the various plans so far surfaced, disappeared. Larrabee and Intel's plan to use, IBM PowerPC-based development centers in Rochester there was a plan to develop a CPU. However, last year (2010) in the middle, the plan was back to the drawing board for all these. Currently, there are even plans to run, so would not be at an advanced stage.

?As a result, SCE's 32nm/28nm generation process is likely to have no plans of silicon stationary machines. Cell Broadband Engine (Cell BE) said that no plans for 32nm process version. In other words, SCE-CPU machines deferred production, presumably they can empty a process generations. Perhaps the next generation is going to be a 22nm/20nm for subsequent generations of the process.

?SCE and Microsoft, IBM for one another, dimly seen through the different situations have been encountered with scissors game. Microsoft side also, the direction of the next generation, there is considerable confusion as the first next-generation hardware that Microsoft had been told to reconsider whether to even sales. For example, is said to have been discussed at the board level as well as how to feed. Microsoft also is running as a plan, not very advanced stage.
?In other words, SCE is also Microsoft also last year (2010) in the later stages of planning, next generation game consoles freeze, which had continued to pretty. Both companies make no signs of generational change now that the strategy focused on current machines.

?Because there was a situation, SCE also plan aside PS4, NGP is estimated to have focused on. SCE also considered an in-house resources, it is considered unavoidable. NGP and software stack, PlayStation emulator PlayStation Suite / Xperia Play ?Ita resources in software development, PS4 strength of the SCE will not only taken up and move on to. The device is smaller than the aircraft against stationary, portable machines that are more urgent is the threat of smartphone market situation there.

Poor translation tl:dr = Both Sony and Microsoft are reconsidering making consoles next gen.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59567

 

[Oveneise]

Well, they DID say the ps3 would be run for around 10 years, so this isn't such a big surprise.

 

[Maedhros]

Saw that on Neogaf, pretty mixed oppinions. They said the article had some mistranslations as well (on the PS4 part).

 

[Rydian]

• I'm pretty sure if there was a PS3.5 it'd be like the incremental PSP upgrades, no game would actually require it, it'd just be a better redesign (like the slim). These are generally expected nowadays (minus the Wii) and are good as each one cuts manufacturing costs and (in general) heat creation. I suppose the Wii was cheap enough to make already that Nintendo didn't bother releasing incremental models...
  
• Webkit? That's the rendering engine both Chrome and Safari use. Interesting decision, I suppose the licensing (LGPL and BSD) is a reason Sony's considering it. They can just use the rendering engine and slap their own UI and such around it (yes, this means you're not getting Chrome itself on the PS3) without having to share the source of their own parts of the browser.
  
• If they expect handhelds to displace consoles they need to whip their loading times into shape. That said there's some things that work better on a console than a handheld, such as a sit-down-and-grind jRPG, but games like Pokemon have been challenging that mindset.

 

[bigpaws]

yes a redesign like the xbox 360 had is most likely

maybe apple is pulling all to work on portable at the moment due to competition

the consoles must take a run for their money and try their best to beat them some way

a move to focus on portable takes the fight to apples grounds here
notice how the new handhelds are trying to incorperate multi media programs too?
ya

 

[Maedhros]

• I'm pretty sure if there was a PS3.5 it'd be like the incremental PSP upgrades, no game would actually require it, it'd just be a better redesign (like the slim). These are generally expected nowadays (minus the Wii) and are good as each one cuts manufacturing costs and (in general) heat creation. I suppose the Wii was cheap enough to make already that Nintendo didn't bother releasing incremental models...
  
• Webkit? That's the rendering engine both Chrome and Safari use. Interesting decision, I suppose the licensing (LGPL and BSD) is a reason Sony's considering it. They can just use the rendering engine and slap their own UI and such around it (yes, this means you're not getting Chrome itself on the PS3) without having to share the source of their own parts of the browser.
  
• If they expect handhelds to displace consoles they need to whip their loading times into shape. That said there's some things that work better on a console than a handheld, such as a sit-down-and-grind jRPG, but games like Pokemon have been challenging that mindset.

Questionable. I prefer playing on the go than on a screen these days. I don't even own a console because of the DS and the PSP, they're my main consoles on this generation.

 

[FireEmblemGuy]

I don't think waiting to see how the next gen of handhelds preforms first a bad idea, really. Looking at what NVIDIA's got planned for the Tegra line handhelds could outpower the current generation consoles pretty easily within the next couple years. Throw in HDMI output, a good screen, and some WiFi and from there it's just a matter of storage and a comfortable control setup.

 

[SylvWolf]

Interesting stuff. I'm not really sure on the whole "handhelds will replace consoles" thing... it could happen, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Also, get ready for 3 pages of Sony bashing for whatever reason people come up with this time.

 

[Fear Zoa]

Have all the gaming companies lost their goddamn minds....The handheld market and the home console market have co existed since the 1980's ......What the hell makes them think its going to suddenly change....
And please don't say "its because of the iphone which shows that people only want to pay $1 for a game and want to play it portably."
Yes there are people that wanna do that....and thats fine....there's a market for them....but its not the same market that people like sony and nintendo get there sales from.....
Their two separate markets and I doubt that will ever change
[/rant]

 

[Maedhros]

If you have a handheld that can run HD graphics and it has an HDMI port (not saying right now, but on the future) or a port connected to a dock of sorts, how would it be different from a console? You could play it on the go or on the television. I can see this happening in the future.

 

[Fear Zoa]

By the time that happens, the things they could do on a home console would have advanced farther too.....

They will always be different experiences......thats why I see no point in abandoning one....

But whatever...thats just my opinion......

 

[Maedhros]

By the time that happens, the things they could do on a home console would have advanced farther too.....

They will always be different experiences......thats why I see no point in abandoning one....

But whatever...thats just my opinion......

It's actually my oppinion with desktops too, but the market is changing... the new generations really like to have everything on the go these days...

 

[Rydian]

There's a limit to what the human eye can make out. It's a reason you don't see 11" screens at a 2560x1600 resolution. While consoles will always be more powerful than handhelds, it will eventually get to the point where the added power of the consoles isn't used. I mean even now you see little girls getting Core i5 laptops and you know they're not using half the CPU power, whereas previously laptops would run a P-3 and strain on it.

 

[Fear Zoa]

By the time that happens, the things they could do on a home console would have advanced farther too.....

They will always be different experiences......thats why I see no point in abandoning one....

But whatever...thats just my opinion......

It's actually my oppinion with desktops too, but the market is changing... the new generations really like to have everything on the go these days...

yep...I suppose they do, It just kinda seems like a step back to me.......

And what about stuff like certain wii games, and kinect...I don't see any way those could be made portable....

 

[Eckin]

Both handhelds and home consoles have their own merit, some things work better on the go, some things work better on your couch. I see no reason to "give up" on either!

... and fighting games aren't the same thing when you play on a handheld!

 

[Maedhros]

Because the current inputs sucks. Seriously, I never saw a portable D-Pad great for fighting games, so I can agree on this.

 

[KingVamp]

Interesting stuff. I'm not really sure on the whole "handhelds will replace consoles" thing... it could happen, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Also, get ready for 3 pages of Sony bashing for whatever reason people come up with this time.
How can they for this?

By the time that happens, the things they could do on a home console would have advanced farther too.....

They will always be different experiences......thats why I see no point in abandoning one....

But whatever...thats just my opinion......
It's actually my oppinion with desktops too, but the market is changing... the new generations really like to have everything on the go these days...

yep...I suppose they do, It just kinda seems like a step back to me.......

And what about stuff like certain wii games, and kinect...I don't see any way those could be made portable....

Make it in a way a sensor or bluetooth to connect it to the controller then have the portable use HDMI output.
The Kinect I can not really think of anything but connect it to the portable in some kinda method.

QUOTE(Eckin @ Mar 9 2011, 12:09 AM)

Both handhelds and home consoles have their own merit, some things work better on the go, some things work better on your couch. I see no reason to "give up" on either!

... and fighting games aren't the same thing when you play on a handheld!

Even with HDMI output?

Edit: But I guess that can be too much trouble than just having a console.

 

[Vigilante]

Sony is really having a hard time on their consoles while Nintendo is playing around while watching the great market of the 3DS.

 

[idulkoan]

There are no plans to reduce the die size of the PS3 beyond the current 45nm. It's possible that they are waiting for 22/20nm and will skip the 32/28nm generation. I'd read that reducing from 45nm to 32nm required a design change for the external pin connections and Sony is probably waiting for 22/20nm to make the change practical. So probably middle of 2012.

There are rumors of a PS3.5 which might happen at the same time (more memory and less likely a 4 element SPE tacked onto the memory buss). 22/20nm die process applies to all silicon including memory. As die size decreases efficiency improves and faster speeds are possible. A redesign for the PS3 from XDR ram to conventional cheap PC style ram using 20nm process could be as fast as the current XDR ram and cheaper. This might allow 500k or even 1gig ram for the PS3.5. Higher efficiency for the Cell and RSX might translate to a fanless PS3 with passive cooling. The PS3 Cell BE and RSX are being used by Sony in 4K commercial editing hardware so I expect there is a large market coming with 4K and 3-D movie editing.

Plans are to upgrade the OS Software and features of the PS3 to make it last longer. For instance the PS3 can display 4K, that can be enabled with a software upgrade. 2012 should have 4K res sets as well as 4K & 1080P 3-D blu-ray players. That would have the PS3 still able to match CE equipment standards and that will be the end of the PS3's ability to keep up with the CE media advances. The PS3 will be getting a webkit browser and upgrades to the PS3 OS to enable a webkit port and to allow porting of applications and games to the PS3 via PS Suite from the NGP (windows support).

Hiroshige Goto says SCEI suspended PS4 development. They were working on a PowerPC based system at IBM Rochester after the Larrabee fall out, then shelved it. They are betting the farm on PSP2 as they expect handhelds to displace consoles.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/...210_425921.html

The original source is in Japanese. Here are some additional excerpts posted on Beyond3D forums.

QUOTE? There is no immediate plan for PlayStation 4 (PS4)

In the introduction to a new portable game platforms, the new generation of anxious but deferred. PlayStation 3 (PS3) machine's successor, present what's going on. Hirai said that as mentioned below.

"On stationary and went in business in 2006 PS3 will go to the lifecycle of 10 years. In that sense, do not go to the halfway point yet. An attractive first-party titles, both third party, rather I came out. has implemented a new initiative announced each year in the future PS3 software to enhance the feature sets to take care and hope to grow. So suddenly the next generation PS4 or stationary machines that's what the debate is not even now. I mean the PS3 is now concentrating on. In addition, NGP and PS3 now want you to appeal to a new partnership with. "

This explanation is convincing. This generation aircraft is in the current harvest, the situation has been eagerly anticipated next-generation consoles is not. There are Gemupaburissha / circumstances of the developer is also at stake. Deferred generation machine now, advances in hardware development cost is bloated title. Thus, even the major studios can not run a large number of title lines of development. Due to rising costs, market failures and costly title.

In these situations, if the aircraft appeared to freeze new architecture to study again, the engine and tools, and will repeat the cycle, such as the burden would increase further. Many Gemudeberoppa, considering the business side, it would freeze the machine you really want to leave alone.

? SCE's next game is unchanged since the process 22/20nm

?SCE's plans for PS4 generation machine, the various plans so far surfaced, disappeared. Larrabee and Intel's plan to use, IBM PowerPC-based development centers in Rochester there was a plan to develop a CPU. However, last year (2010) in the middle, the plan was back to the drawing board for all these. Currently, there are even plans to run, so would not be at an advanced stage.

?As a result, SCE's 32nm/28nm generation process is likely to have no plans of silicon stationary machines. Cell Broadband Engine (Cell BE) said that no plans for 32nm process version. In other words, SCE-CPU machines deferred production, presumably they can empty a process generations. Perhaps the next generation is going to be a 22nm/20nm for subsequent generations of the process.

?SCE and Microsoft, IBM for one another, dimly seen through the different situations have been encountered with scissors game. Microsoft side also, the direction of the next generation, there is considerable confusion as the first next-generation hardware that Microsoft had been told to reconsider whether to even sales. For example, is said to have been discussed at the board level as well as how to feed. Microsoft also is running as a plan, not very advanced stage.
?In other words, SCE is also Microsoft also last year (2010) in the later stages of planning, next generation game consoles freeze, which had continued to pretty. Both companies make no signs of generational change now that the strategy focused on current machines.

?Because there was a situation, SCE also plan aside PS4, NGP is estimated to have focused on. SCE also considered an in-house resources, it is considered unavoidable. NGP and software stack, PlayStation emulator PlayStation Suite / Xperia Play ?Ita resources in software development, PS4 strength of the SCE will not only taken up and move on to. The device is smaller than the aircraft against stationary, portable machines that are more urgent is the threat of smartphone market situation there.

Poor translation tl:dr = Both Sony and Microsoft are reconsidering making consoles next gen.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59567

I was expecting to see the PS4 next year, since the pattern with Sony is that they release a new Home Console about every 6 years... Well PS3 is making LOTS of money with all these games sold, so its not a big surprize

 

[fgghjjkll]

Next gen handhelds have touchscreens. For the Nintendo handhelds, okay.. Top screen can be shown on your television, but what about the NGP?
Don't mind me. Sony could just use the touchescreen as something else but what I'm talking about are heavily touch orientated games.