Hardware New 3DS -> why a 3DS Player for Wii U wasn't made before?

[gudenau]

Stick a 3DS in a box, pluck a better gpu to do scaling in the shader pipeline, bam! 1080p 3DS.

This is a super over simplification btw. At least the gameboy player worked simaler to this.

 

[the_randomizer]

Stick a 3DS in a box, pluck a better gpu to do scaling in the shader pipeline, bam! 1080p 3DS.

This is a super over simplification btw. At least the gameboy player worked simaler to this.

Yes, that would be so cheap to do and help generate more revenue GBA Player didn't scale, it still looks horrible.

 

[gudenau]

Yes, that would be so cheap to do and help generate more revenue GBA Player didn't scale, it still looks horrible.

You can not scale 2D like 3D, think dolphin but for 3DS. Some people would get a 3DS player over a 3DS and some people would get both.

Like I said, super over simplified. ;-)

 

[SolarFusion]

You can not scale 2D like 3D, think dolphin but for 3DS.)

Actually, you are wrong. You can scale 2D to 3D; my Panasonic Viera tv does it. I've never actually tried it but I've read people say that it really doesn't make things 3D, it only adds depth. I'm sure though, that if someone the work was put into it, true 2D-3D conversion could be accomplished. It is - after all - at the most basic level just two copies of the same image slightly offset.

 

[gudenau]

Actually, you are wrong. You can scale 2D to 3D; my Panasonic Viera tv does it. I've never actually tried it but I've read people say that it really doesn't make things 3D, it only adds depth. I'm sure though, that if someone the work was put into it, true 2D-3D conversion could be accomplished. It is - after all - at the most basic level just two copies of the same image slightly offset.

What I was saying that to scale a 3D scene in the rendering pipeline you only need a matrix (See later), while to scale the 2D image is much more work.

Matrix:
[
[s, 0, 0, 0],
[0, s, 0, 0],
[0, 0, s, 0],
[0, 0, 0, 1]
]

 

[SuperrSonic]

GBA Player didn't scale, it still looks horrible.

GB Player scaled in almost every way possible. First it scales the screen width from 608 to 640, then that gets scaled to 666, then finally the GBA games are scaled to 2x or something like 570x380, both sizes use bilinear filtering and no deflicker.
Yeah, even the integer scale uses bilinear, it has to, otherwise the switch between both sizes would differ greatly in quality.

What I'm saying is Nintendo actually bothered trying to max out everything they could to make GBA games look correct on this thing, unlike say vbagx which manages to do more or less the opposite of every detail I just stated.
Also I don't think it looks horrible, mostly because knowing that on a 640x480 frame you're stuck with 'big but blurry' or 'sharp but small' for GBA games.

 

[gudenau]

Oops, I made a small mistake, you do not need to scale as the opengl coords are from -1 to 1. So even beter.

Please be a thing! This would have to be with USB, so pc drivers would happen!

 

[WiiCube_2013]

I'm kinda delusional thinking Nintendo will make a "3DS Player" for Wii U much like GameBoy Player for GameCube... Because who wouldn't want to play 3DS games on a TV (with the 2nd screen on GamePad)... like Monster Hunter 4?

Only if they used filters to make it look better like emulators have.

 

[Extrems]

the GBA games are scaled to 2x or something like 570x380, both sizes use bilinear filtering and no deflicker

It's actually 2x point or 2.375x bicubic (!). Deflickering is always on, even in progressive mode.

 

[Bladexdsl]

than people wouldn't buy the 3ds that's why. would be nice though everytime i play that damn thing i get a headache...

 

[the_randomizer]

than people wouldn't buy the 3ds that's why. would be nice though everytime i play that damn thing i get a headache...

Then don't use 3D lol.

 

[trumpet-205]

GBA player wasn't emulation, it simply used the serial ports in the Gamecube but had all the hardware of the GBA, the DS/3DS player could do the same.

Not with current Wii U hardware. USB is not a low latency port as the serial port used in GC.

 

[Bladexdsl]

Then don't use 3D lol.

doesn't matter if i turn the 3d on or off it's the small screen

 

[Shady Guy Jose]

That's not how you calculate 3D resolution. 3DS correct resolution is 400 x 240, both 2D and 3D.

In 3D mode, 3DS generates two streams and let you see each stream at half vertical resolution. Your left and right eye each only sees 400 x 120.

When it comes to 3D, with the exception of active 3D display (3D glasses that requires battery/USB cable) and analygraph, all other 3D techniques will halve the vertical resolution.

The 3DS's actual resolution is 800x240, squeezed into a 5:3 aspect ratio, and the resolution is halved horizontally, instead of vertically, to give you 400x240 for each eye.

 

[shinkodachi]

I think the fact VitaTV exists is proof there's at least some demand for having handheld games on a TV. This "3DS Player" could be the Wii mini killer: 3DS games are readily available with more coming and they are generally cheaper than games for home consoles, Nintendo can re-use a lot of their R&D (the guts of the 3DS + the Wii U GamePad = 3DS Player) so it'd be cheap to make and sell, the target audience wouldn't care about not having HD just like the Wii mini is not an HD console.

The problem is that Japan has pretty much forgotten about home consoles. They're all about handhelds now and that's why 3DS is dominating. Still I hope they make this because there's definitely interest in a product like this. May even be more successful than Wii U... lol

 

[nl255]

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oh i thought it was emulation haha ive had no sleep latley​

Perhaps you are thinking of the Datel Advance Game Port which did use software emulation and had all sorts of problems including graphics issues and slowdowns (and unlike the Gameboy Player, flash carts such as the M3 or even the F2A will not work). It was also slow to start as it had to dump both the save data and the game rom over the GC memory card interface.

 

[Mario92]

I think the fact VitaTV exists is proof there's at least some demand for having handheld games on a TV. This "3DS Player" could be the Wii mini killer: 3DS games are readily available with more coming and they are generally cheaper than games for home consoles, Nintendo can re-use a lot of their R&D (the guts of the 3DS + the Wii U GamePad = 3DS Player) so it'd be cheap to make and sell, the target audience wouldn't care about not having HD just like the Wii mini is not an HD console.

The problem is that Japan has pretty much forgotten about home consoles. They're all about handhelds now and that's why 3DS is dominating. Still I hope they make this because there's definitely interest in a product like this. May even be more successful than Wii U... lol

Vita TV does look cool, actually owned it at one point, but seems more like attempt to revive dead console and compete with growing(big question mark here) micro console market. That thing would be much better if they integrated UMD support, actually supported some Vita exclusives like Gravity Rush and if they had much more classic games available. Also because it's basically handheld only having one account limits the system.
However I won't deny possibility that there wouldn't be 3DS player for Wii U as Wii U gamepad should have everything needed to play 3DS games and there are already DS virtual console games. But from business standpoint why waste money to make it possible to play games on other system when you can simply sell that other console for people?

That's not how you calculate 3D resolution. 3DS correct resolution is 400 x 240, both 2D and 3D.

In 3D mode, 3DS generates two streams and let you see each stream at half vertical resolution. Your left and right eye each only sees 400 x 120.

When it comes to 3D, with the exception of active 3D display (3D glasses that requires battery/USB cable) and analygraph, all other 3D techniques will halve the vertical resolution.

That's half true.
Digital resolution on 3DS is 800x240, physical screen resolution is 400x240 so both eyes get full resolution image at all times.

Also I don't think any stereo-3D technology ever halves the resolution. With SBS content it's halved, but then it doesn't matter what method you use to watch it it's always halved.

 

[shinkodachi]

But from business standpoint why waste money to make it possible to play games on other system when you can simply sell that other console for people?

Ideally, if properly marketed, 3DS Player is what gets people excited (thanks to the overwhelmingly good game library) to buy a cheaper Nintendo home console alongside a PS4 / Xbox One, which in turn due to being bundled with a Wii U GamePad gets people interested in the Wii U itself ("Like what you see? Then imagine playing in HD!"), which in turn helps Wii U sales.

This assumes several conditions:
1) Nintendo acknowledges Wii U hardware sales are bad and wants to try the same (failed) approach again as with the GameBoy Player for GameCube
2) Nintendo wants customers to see the Wii U as an upgrade from the 3DS, even though current marketing suggests the opposite
3) Nintendo isn't afraid of having its own products cannibalize each other (e.g. like Apple)
4) Nintendo is willing to make a Wii U bundle WITHOUT the GamePad to provide an upgrade path for the "3DS Player"

We've already seen some things happen:
1) DS Virtual Console games are coming, so the idea of having 3DS games on a TV is not far off should DS VC succeed
2) Nintendo Network ID will become unified for both 3DS and Wii U, tying purchases to an account vs. device
3) Games are starting to have more connectivity options between 3DS and Wii U (e.g. use 3DS as controller in SSB for Wii U)
4) New 3DS is taking off with strong developer interest, now is the time to squeeze every last profit out of the 3DS brand

 

[cvskid]

I think the fact VitaTV exists is proof there's at least some demand for having handheld games on a TV. This "3DS Player" could be the Wii mini killer: 3DS games are readily available with more coming and they are generally cheaper than games for home consoles, Nintendo can re-use a lot of their R&D (the guts of the 3DS + the Wii U GamePad = 3DS Player) so it'd be cheap to make and sell, the target audience wouldn't care about not having HD just like the Wii mini is not an HD console.

The problem is that Japan has pretty much forgotten about home consoles. They're all about handhelds now and that's why 3DS is dominating. Still I hope they make this because there's definitely interest in a product like this. May even be more successful than Wii U... lol

I feel like the VitaTV shouldn't even have been made and instead sony made the PSVita like the PSP so you can connect it to a tv using either component cables or a hdmi cable.

 

[trumpet-205]

Vita TV is there to compete against micro-console. I'm not sure if Nintendo even wants to tap into this type of market.